1 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:06,880 hi blog talking about it first of all 2 00:00:05,590 --> 00:00:08,410 thank you so much for coming along 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,120 because it is quite flattering to like 4 00:00:08,410 --> 00:00:12,639 nearly fellow room and this is the 5 00:00:10,120 --> 00:00:13,809 second time we've done this panel and we 6 00:00:12,639 --> 00:00:18,130 really appreciate you guys so long 7 00:00:13,809 --> 00:00:19,270 listen to us listen just bubble in case 8 00:00:18,130 --> 00:00:22,479 yeah in case you miss the first 9 00:00:19,270 --> 00:00:25,390 introduction could can college us 10 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:31,720 yourselves I'm Dan Don tweets on Twitter 11 00:00:25,390 --> 00:00:42,249 please for me sure I'm Jack and I'm not 12 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:46,510 gonna some James I hope to be tea and it 13 00:00:42,249 --> 00:00:47,829 was okay so the reason we did this 14 00:00:46,510 --> 00:00:49,390 funnel that's obviously are the do's and 15 00:00:47,829 --> 00:00:51,399 don'ts of getting Indian Cossack because 16 00:00:49,390 --> 00:00:53,230 there's a lot of information I dare 17 00:00:51,399 --> 00:00:54,579 apply getting a job and talents to the 18 00:00:53,230 --> 00:00:57,129 questions that people have when they 19 00:00:54,579 --> 00:00:58,690 start to go into an industry but a lot 20 00:00:57,129 --> 00:01:00,010 of it does come from different sources 21 00:00:58,690 --> 00:01:02,920 which also you have different ideas 22 00:01:00,010 --> 00:01:04,628 about it and because M for second 23 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,549 industry is so dynamic there doesn't 24 00:01:04,629 --> 00:01:08,020 really seem to be one truth to change 25 00:01:06,549 --> 00:01:10,899 like getting a job and it seems to be 26 00:01:08,020 --> 00:01:12,399 different for different people so what 27 00:01:10,899 --> 00:01:14,200 we've discovered and are written like 28 00:01:12,399 --> 00:01:16,240 when we discuss this originally was it 29 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,930 are Richard we're very different and the 30 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:21,699 the advice wasn't quite universal so um 31 00:01:18,930 --> 00:01:23,680 and such a dynamic industry we realized 32 00:01:21,700 --> 00:01:25,479 that because we've just been for the 33 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,380 process ourselves for context if you're 34 00:01:25,479 --> 00:01:28,780 on there where all of us were juniors 35 00:01:26,380 --> 00:01:31,719 did it haven't been in the industry that 36 00:01:28,780 --> 00:01:34,359 long so um where we essentially asked 37 00:01:31,719 --> 00:01:40,179 everyone a question or we asked police 38 00:01:34,359 --> 00:01:41,919 Twitter followers a question the to tell 39 00:01:40,180 --> 00:01:43,960 us will what are they wondering most 40 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,340 about the industry because we understand 41 00:01:43,960 --> 00:01:48,939 that it's different for everyone and the 42 00:01:45,340 --> 00:01:51,609 Trinity is no yellow brick road as to 43 00:01:48,939 --> 00:01:54,038 how you get a job so we're gonna go 44 00:01:51,609 --> 00:01:55,899 through three categories of questions we 45 00:01:54,039 --> 00:01:56,320 received we sent over Twitter and 46 00:01:55,899 --> 00:01:58,030 LinkedIn 47 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:00,008 I'm Leon you know quite a few responses 48 00:01:58,030 --> 00:02:01,990 we got a healthy response about it but 49 00:02:00,009 --> 00:02:04,380 there's the book the questions mainly 50 00:02:01,990 --> 00:02:06,460 with the exception of 50 trolls online 51 00:02:04,380 --> 00:02:07,780 followed the three separate categories 52 00:02:06,460 --> 00:02:08,549 so there's try to develop your Barker 53 00:02:07,780 --> 00:02:11,880 and then informations 54 00:02:08,550 --> 00:02:13,770 maybe you're currently maybe you're 55 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,940 currently like in university now and 56 00:02:13,770 --> 00:02:17,250 you're looking to develop your 57 00:02:14,940 --> 00:02:18,930 background so that you can become 58 00:02:17,250 --> 00:02:19,740 employable or potentially you're 59 00:02:18,930 --> 00:02:21,690 currently going through the application 60 00:02:19,740 --> 00:02:22,950 process which varies from company to 61 00:02:21,690 --> 00:02:24,870 company and there's no clear answer on 62 00:02:22,950 --> 00:02:26,310 on anything to do that really 63 00:02:24,870 --> 00:02:27,480 and then once you've got the job once 64 00:02:26,310 --> 00:02:29,540 you've secured that in your position 65 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:32,429 there's a lot of questions about like 66 00:02:29,540 --> 00:02:33,959 like working life and like what how you 67 00:02:32,430 --> 00:02:35,310 keep up skilling and how to keep 68 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:38,540 developing your career once you're 69 00:02:35,310 --> 00:02:42,600 actually in the job so I think just a 70 00:02:38,540 --> 00:02:43,530 essentially before before the job so how 71 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,400 did you guys get in the industry 72 00:02:43,530 --> 00:02:48,420 starting guitar 73 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:50,160 sure so I studied here Alberti used to 74 00:02:48,420 --> 00:02:53,760 attend in security and setting in talks 75 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:56,850 like this the deathblow hacking degree 76 00:02:53,760 --> 00:03:00,570 he finished that up um pretty much it 77 00:02:56,850 --> 00:03:04,079 pretty linear from a degree to a job - 78 00:03:00,570 --> 00:03:06,390 completely different I did a year of 79 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:08,400 college dropped out didn't really want 80 00:03:06,390 --> 00:03:10,309 to go to uni so I ended up going to a 81 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:14,430 friendship new software Hama instead 82 00:03:10,310 --> 00:03:16,590 that company collapse was made redundant 83 00:03:14,430 --> 00:03:19,320 and luckily I was able to get another 84 00:03:16,590 --> 00:03:22,590 event ship which is my mom general IT 85 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:24,570 and eventually while I was there over 86 00:03:22,590 --> 00:03:28,260 the course of a year or so it change 87 00:03:24,570 --> 00:03:31,410 into more governance like policy kind of 88 00:03:28,260 --> 00:03:33,660 stuff not too technical and that evolved 89 00:03:31,410 --> 00:03:37,020 into a more technical role and now I do 90 00:03:33,660 --> 00:03:38,850 more security operations mire and stuff 91 00:03:37,020 --> 00:03:40,100 like that and that's how it kind of got 92 00:03:38,850 --> 00:03:43,170 to where I am now 93 00:03:40,100 --> 00:03:45,810 yeah I kind of did everything a bit 94 00:03:43,170 --> 00:03:48,690 backwards I like him went to college 95 00:03:45,810 --> 00:03:52,590 hated it got any of the media studies 96 00:03:48,690 --> 00:03:55,140 but I did nothing with and then I was 97 00:03:52,590 --> 00:03:56,670 working full-time in a bar and you learn 98 00:03:55,140 --> 00:03:58,019 after being full-time in a bar for 99 00:03:56,670 --> 00:04:00,958 awhile that being full-time to borrow 100 00:03:58,020 --> 00:04:02,640 some great fun so I routed from 101 00:04:00,959 --> 00:04:05,160 Cambridgeshire and moved up to Leeds 102 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:08,160 where I did a foundation degree and then 103 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:09,600 well after a year sucked off and moved 104 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:14,609 over to Beckett where I'm currently 105 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:16,409 doing forensics and security yeah so I 106 00:04:14,610 --> 00:04:18,750 guess I'm not somebody to eject here so 107 00:04:16,410 --> 00:04:20,789 very conventional so do University had 108 00:04:18,750 --> 00:04:21,779 an internship came out of university and 109 00:04:20,789 --> 00:04:23,729 played for tons of 110 00:04:21,779 --> 00:04:25,619 jobs I got a great job with Beauty 111 00:04:23,730 --> 00:04:29,120 security and that's kind of where I am 112 00:04:25,620 --> 00:04:32,250 these days and it just reference about 113 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:34,620 what do you work at night what's your 114 00:04:32,250 --> 00:04:37,380 actual role so I work as a secure 115 00:04:34,620 --> 00:04:41,120 patient center analyst so that's things 116 00:04:37,380 --> 00:04:42,990 like monitoring alerts triaging the 117 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:46,650 fixing things 118 00:04:42,990 --> 00:04:48,630 Craig projects for generally fixing 119 00:04:46,650 --> 00:04:50,929 technical security issues that's 120 00:04:48,630 --> 00:04:53,580 anything from vulnerabilities to 121 00:04:50,930 --> 00:04:55,260 completely redesigning things and 122 00:04:53,580 --> 00:04:58,469 building them an implement in them 123 00:04:55,260 --> 00:04:59,820 things like that okay so getting into 124 00:04:58,470 --> 00:05:01,590 the questions you're safe the first one 125 00:04:59,820 --> 00:05:03,270 is what are some things that you did 126 00:05:01,590 --> 00:05:05,729 stand out I think this one refers to 127 00:05:03,270 --> 00:05:06,990 kind of a like very much before being in 128 00:05:05,730 --> 00:05:09,470 the building in the workplaces I don't 129 00:05:06,990 --> 00:05:12,150 have any things to share but um 130 00:05:09,470 --> 00:05:13,470 yes there's a whole ton of different 131 00:05:12,150 --> 00:05:15,929 things you can do to make yourself stand 132 00:05:13,470 --> 00:05:17,669 out as a candidate because employers are 133 00:05:15,930 --> 00:05:19,680 gonna get more than was about controller 134 00:05:17,669 --> 00:05:22,349 jobs so you need to do things outside of 135 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:25,470 just studying to make yourself stand out 136 00:05:22,350 --> 00:05:27,180 an employer and sure that you care and 137 00:05:25,470 --> 00:05:28,650 you're a bit more passionate rather than 138 00:05:27,180 --> 00:05:29,310 just doing a degree in getting a job for 139 00:05:28,650 --> 00:05:31,169 the sake of it 140 00:05:29,310 --> 00:05:33,030 so there's a whole lot of different 141 00:05:31,169 --> 00:05:34,789 things you can do you can do like 142 00:05:33,030 --> 00:05:36,830 relevant volunteering experience 143 00:05:34,790 --> 00:05:40,020 part-time work that's relevant 144 00:05:36,830 --> 00:05:41,820 internships you can apply to conferences 145 00:05:40,020 --> 00:05:43,380 to speak which is really really valuable 146 00:05:41,820 --> 00:05:45,270 or even just comment as an attendee 147 00:05:43,380 --> 00:05:47,700 because when you come here you're 148 00:05:45,270 --> 00:05:49,770 spending money to come even if it's only 149 00:05:47,700 --> 00:05:52,260 20 quid for a ticket but that just shows 150 00:05:49,770 --> 00:05:53,909 that you care past just doing a degree 151 00:05:52,260 --> 00:05:57,090 it takes up an entire Friday as well 152 00:05:53,910 --> 00:05:59,520 always asking yeah with that in mind 153 00:05:57,090 --> 00:06:00,840 it's also with using that time as an 154 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,820 opportunity to figure out what you want 155 00:06:00,840 --> 00:06:04,500 to do so having all that spare time and 156 00:06:02,820 --> 00:06:06,390 figuring I really like writing articles 157 00:06:04,500 --> 00:06:08,400 I really like public speaking so I 158 00:06:06,390 --> 00:06:09,539 really like doing podcasts and then 159 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,060 that's not the to news then to take that 160 00:06:09,539 --> 00:06:15,539 further either when you have a job or go 161 00:06:12,060 --> 00:06:16,830 for it okay and I think because the 162 00:06:15,539 --> 00:06:18,120 question is more in respect to what you 163 00:06:16,830 --> 00:06:19,830 actually learn what you feel like 164 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,479 yourself did because I mean with 165 00:06:19,830 --> 00:06:25,169 reservation Isis to do yourself right so 166 00:06:21,479 --> 00:06:26,849 how you do in your experience so I did a 167 00:06:25,169 --> 00:06:28,950 few public speaking engagements 168 00:06:26,850 --> 00:06:30,800 primarily at the Hocking society we have 169 00:06:28,950 --> 00:06:33,180 at university it's a really good way to 170 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,069 get to public speaking because it's very 171 00:06:33,180 --> 00:06:38,159 welcomed and very supportive 172 00:06:35,069 --> 00:06:40,680 passed out I support car b-sides Libby 173 00:06:38,159 --> 00:06:42,930 Ana last year which actually resulted in 174 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:45,839 a job offer an offer on the spot as soon 175 00:06:42,930 --> 00:06:47,279 as the top finished I was offered an 176 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,469 internship part-time with the Scotch 177 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,058 business resilience centre it was a 178 00:06:49,469 --> 00:06:53,369 really great opportunity it was an 179 00:06:51,059 --> 00:06:55,649 introduction to pain tests in working 180 00:06:53,369 --> 00:06:56,969 with clients writing reports and they 181 00:06:55,649 --> 00:06:58,409 were really flexible because they 182 00:06:56,969 --> 00:07:00,029 understand that you're a student and 183 00:06:58,409 --> 00:07:02,159 you're trying to do this job at the same 184 00:07:00,029 --> 00:07:04,020 time so there's a lot of different 185 00:07:02,159 --> 00:07:08,849 things you can do just for the sake of 186 00:07:04,020 --> 00:07:11,430 getting through the question so it like 187 00:07:08,849 --> 00:07:13,199 as a summary just like attending 188 00:07:11,430 --> 00:07:14,550 extracurricular I like activities 189 00:07:13,199 --> 00:07:16,979 conferences just like networking with 190 00:07:14,550 --> 00:07:19,349 people that's with the stuff I didn't 191 00:07:16,979 --> 00:07:21,628 know if you're at the societies that you 192 00:07:19,349 --> 00:07:23,370 you know do committee mulch you know I 193 00:07:21,629 --> 00:07:26,339 know with our society being on committee 194 00:07:23,370 --> 00:07:28,620 really helped cuz it make you do things 195 00:07:26,339 --> 00:07:31,259 no I know of course like I said with 196 00:07:28,620 --> 00:07:32,779 that new CEQA and myself era for those 197 00:07:31,259 --> 00:07:35,339 really don't know how I was part of 198 00:07:32,779 --> 00:07:37,770 university and I'm still armed but I 199 00:07:35,339 --> 00:07:40,110 used to be part of the other music are a 200 00:07:37,770 --> 00:07:41,370 security society and like getting 201 00:07:40,110 --> 00:07:43,680 involved in the organization a lot 202 00:07:41,370 --> 00:07:45,569 really did like open doors which just 203 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,009 seemed not to be there before I started 204 00:07:45,569 --> 00:07:49,020 so that's definitely something to 205 00:07:47,009 --> 00:07:53,009 consider if you have one if not 206 00:07:49,020 --> 00:07:54,448 essentially answer so depending on where 207 00:07:53,009 --> 00:07:58,699 your experiences in university 208 00:07:54,449 --> 00:07:58,699 beneficial for securing your first job 209 00:07:58,819 --> 00:08:03,300 yeah I'm gonna start this and everybody 210 00:08:01,919 --> 00:08:05,068 obviously have different opinions but 211 00:08:03,300 --> 00:08:06,959 you know University really is like it's 212 00:08:05,069 --> 00:08:09,419 what you make of the experience you know 213 00:08:06,959 --> 00:08:11,490 sitting in a lecture you know where 214 00:08:09,419 --> 00:08:13,409 someone's going that this is security is 215 00:08:11,490 --> 00:08:14,999 that isn't practical that doesn't get 216 00:08:13,409 --> 00:08:17,039 you the job and and as we've said before 217 00:08:14,999 --> 00:08:19,889 you know it's about what we're doing 218 00:08:17,039 --> 00:08:21,599 around it and university as a bubble is 219 00:08:19,889 --> 00:08:24,029 a really good environment to like 220 00:08:21,599 --> 00:08:26,009 nurture that I think so it's like the 221 00:08:24,029 --> 00:08:28,289 experience of going university I than 222 00:08:26,009 --> 00:08:29,879 the actual nice and I think a lot of it 223 00:08:28,289 --> 00:08:30,870 as well at learning from other people 224 00:08:29,879 --> 00:08:32,010 who are in the same position because 225 00:08:30,870 --> 00:08:33,690 obviously everybody knows different 226 00:08:32,010 --> 00:08:35,549 things and cares about different things 227 00:08:33,690 --> 00:08:37,349 so you're there and you're being exposed 228 00:08:35,549 --> 00:08:39,059 to so much whereas if you are sat in 229 00:08:37,349 --> 00:08:40,820 your bedroom reading a book it's a very 230 00:08:39,059 --> 00:08:43,579 different experience I guess 231 00:08:40,820 --> 00:08:44,660 and and Brent you said at the start you 232 00:08:43,580 --> 00:08:46,430 didn't get you didn't go to university 233 00:08:44,660 --> 00:08:50,630 and it hasn't been it hasn't a barrier 234 00:08:46,430 --> 00:08:52,579 to you in the industry no no my work 235 00:08:50,630 --> 00:08:54,260 that I've done is through meeting people 236 00:08:52,580 --> 00:08:57,530 and experiencing things like you said 237 00:08:54,260 --> 00:08:59,930 but I found that it's been very easy to 238 00:08:57,530 --> 00:09:01,850 do with meetups and conferences and just 239 00:08:59,930 --> 00:09:04,760 talking to people getting involved in 240 00:09:01,850 --> 00:09:07,160 different projects and I've not really 241 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:10,460 found a barrier that's needed me to be 242 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:12,050 at university at all I was gonna say I'm 243 00:09:10,460 --> 00:09:13,910 gonna be the flipside of that and so I 244 00:09:12,050 --> 00:09:15,890 find universities super important yeah 245 00:09:13,910 --> 00:09:17,360 because it's that backbone especially if 246 00:09:15,890 --> 00:09:19,790 you don't have that knowledge beforehand 247 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,020 it kind of sets you on that level to 248 00:09:19,790 --> 00:09:22,550 make sure that you have that backbone 249 00:09:21,020 --> 00:09:24,020 you know you're talking about and then 250 00:09:22,550 --> 00:09:25,400 you can pivot off that you go to 251 00:09:24,020 --> 00:09:28,730 conferences you do these meetups 252 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:32,449 whatever but if I think universities a 253 00:09:28,730 --> 00:09:34,430 great way a solid my dish yeah I can 254 00:09:32,450 --> 00:09:37,730 speak for myself that I wouldn't have 255 00:09:34,430 --> 00:09:39,170 had like with experiences in university 256 00:09:37,730 --> 00:09:41,450 being outside of classes like I 257 00:09:39,170 --> 00:09:43,280 certainly nothing with security before 258 00:09:41,450 --> 00:09:45,020 like going to university and although I 259 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:47,600 wasn't necessarily studying security I 260 00:09:45,020 --> 00:09:49,460 did saw for engineering it's still like 261 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,960 going to the University like in a 262 00:09:49,460 --> 00:09:53,420 structured learning and like having that 263 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:55,190 kind of time surrounded by people here 264 00:09:53,420 --> 00:09:58,670 so passion the way it really did kind of 265 00:09:55,190 --> 00:10:02,900 like definitely helped me secure my 266 00:09:58,670 --> 00:10:06,650 first job but I'm from that how did you 267 00:10:02,900 --> 00:10:08,300 make your Browns see I think making a 268 00:10:06,650 --> 00:10:10,850 brand yourself is making your image as a 269 00:10:08,300 --> 00:10:12,410 person like you know I kind of did media 270 00:10:10,850 --> 00:10:14,780 so I was always that very creative 271 00:10:12,410 --> 00:10:17,089 person's like I played on that so when I 272 00:10:14,780 --> 00:10:19,069 tended the security the first year I 273 00:10:17,090 --> 00:10:20,660 made these really low-key business cards 274 00:10:19,070 --> 00:10:22,130 and everybody in the society like that's 275 00:10:20,660 --> 00:10:23,240 hilarious don't do that you're gonna get 276 00:10:22,130 --> 00:10:24,770 mocked but when you're having 277 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:27,440 conversations with people it's memorable 278 00:10:24,770 --> 00:10:29,090 it's like if you're this person that 279 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,990 someone stood and spoken to you for ten 280 00:10:29,090 --> 00:10:32,150 minutes then you give them something 281 00:10:29,990 --> 00:10:34,640 like you know they'll remember you more 282 00:10:32,150 --> 00:10:36,590 I think so I think I started with that 283 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,270 and obviously you can build like blogs 284 00:10:36,590 --> 00:10:40,220 and I think Twitter presence is 285 00:10:38,270 --> 00:10:41,900 important as well like you can engage 286 00:10:40,220 --> 00:10:43,310 with the community and people can gauge 287 00:10:41,900 --> 00:10:45,890 the kind of person you are from that 288 00:10:43,310 --> 00:10:47,089 yeah so now I can see a few juices from 289 00:10:45,890 --> 00:10:48,890 Twitter in here so it's it's definitely 290 00:10:47,090 --> 00:10:50,240 a very good like networking tool but in 291 00:10:48,890 --> 00:10:50,610 order to like this we've had the tech 292 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,019 off 293 00:10:50,610 --> 00:10:54,750 every day at the air so it's nice deal 294 00:10:52,019 --> 00:10:58,950 to know who's me really and I'm not not 295 00:10:54,750 --> 00:11:00,930 to say that but it's it's very funny 296 00:10:58,950 --> 00:11:02,160 yeah I think I think off that point is 297 00:11:00,930 --> 00:11:03,870 what clothes saying is it's all about 298 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,610 content creation right so if you're 299 00:11:03,870 --> 00:11:06,660 really interested in something means 300 00:11:05,610 --> 00:11:08,459 that someone else is going to be 301 00:11:06,660 --> 00:11:10,199 interested in that same thing so you 302 00:11:08,459 --> 00:11:11,459 have read articles make blog post write 303 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,860 code or that kind of stuff 304 00:11:11,459 --> 00:11:15,420 and it's all about sharing that I think 305 00:11:13,860 --> 00:11:17,940 I've being integrated in that community 306 00:11:15,420 --> 00:11:20,040 yeah I think I think that sharing is 307 00:11:17,940 --> 00:11:21,390 very important because I'd I know a lot 308 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,949 of people who struggle with that kind of 309 00:11:21,390 --> 00:11:24,089 like just like putting stuff either 310 00:11:22,950 --> 00:11:25,980 because there no other that's not good 311 00:11:24,089 --> 00:11:27,240 enough and like one of it's like what if 312 00:11:25,980 --> 00:11:28,470 someone can pack a hole in it but even 313 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,910 if they put a hole no and even if they 314 00:11:28,470 --> 00:11:31,380 say it's bad still better than having 315 00:11:29,910 --> 00:11:32,850 nothing night like it still I mean like 316 00:11:31,380 --> 00:11:34,140 you like you're hardly proving and 317 00:11:32,850 --> 00:11:35,519 confidence or any confidence just 318 00:11:34,140 --> 00:11:37,350 because you've released something which 319 00:11:35,519 --> 00:11:38,760 isn't picture-perfect that's like the 320 00:11:37,350 --> 00:11:40,110 benefit of releasing things and like 321 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,399 getting your name right there and being 322 00:11:40,110 --> 00:11:43,140 introduced to people who like the same 323 00:11:41,399 --> 00:11:45,029 stuff is definitely a ways that kind of 324 00:11:43,140 --> 00:11:47,490 this even if you get stuff wrong and 325 00:11:45,029 --> 00:11:49,110 you'd be corrected don't treat it is you 326 00:11:47,490 --> 00:11:50,700 being wrong because identity you're 327 00:11:49,110 --> 00:11:51,510 still a student treat it as a learning 328 00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:53,190 experience 329 00:11:51,510 --> 00:11:55,319 Tico's constructive criticism rather 330 00:11:53,190 --> 00:11:57,920 than negative criticism and use that to 331 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,920 improve and get better 332 00:12:00,110 --> 00:12:06,570 okay so I'm moving on from that that was 333 00:12:03,060 --> 00:12:08,640 um that was before before any jobs would 334 00:12:06,570 --> 00:12:10,290 not have done applying for a job some 335 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,279 questions regarding applications or 336 00:12:10,290 --> 00:12:13,800 running to be building on certain things 337 00:12:11,279 --> 00:12:15,750 so our first one here is with online 338 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:18,180 application forms and test Shiggy on to 339 00:12:15,750 --> 00:12:19,860 the questions obviously Oh as an aisle I 340 00:12:18,180 --> 00:12:22,439 believe the company is looking for so I 341 00:12:19,860 --> 00:12:24,779 think I can say that yes you on to 342 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,279 the questions honestly because you 343 00:12:24,779 --> 00:12:28,110 shouldn't apply on an application I 344 00:12:26,279 --> 00:12:30,120 didn't really set up to set up does 345 00:12:28,110 --> 00:12:31,529 anyone have any insights about the type 346 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,760 of questions that we get asked and like 347 00:12:31,529 --> 00:12:34,560 how we should approach answering them 348 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,699 yes I think that this question we did 349 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:37,768 spend some time about it because the 350 00:12:35,699 --> 00:12:40,170 question was well do you 351 00:12:37,769 --> 00:12:43,350 what is lying in an application actually 352 00:12:40,170 --> 00:12:44,459 mean we said yeah hands down none of us 353 00:12:43,350 --> 00:12:45,540 should lie in applications right we 354 00:12:44,459 --> 00:12:48,209 shouldn't lie about hard skills we 355 00:12:45,540 --> 00:12:50,640 shouldn't lie about students but when it 356 00:12:48,209 --> 00:12:52,410 comes to soft skills I think it is super 357 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,029 important to take that step back and to 358 00:12:52,410 --> 00:12:56,010 go actually what's the company looking 359 00:12:54,029 --> 00:12:57,360 for here how can I move with this 360 00:12:56,010 --> 00:12:59,850 competitor and answering these questions 361 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,740 how'd it be exactly and I think that's 362 00:12:59,850 --> 00:13:03,360 not the sort of lying but it's showing 363 00:13:01,740 --> 00:13:04,380 that you have those skills by taking 364 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,120 them step back 365 00:13:04,380 --> 00:13:08,220 we are our own biggest critic at the end 366 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:10,080 of the day like like it's it's it's it's 367 00:13:08,220 --> 00:13:11,730 very important to understand like a 368 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,840 jollification so here you like you 369 00:13:11,730 --> 00:13:15,120 aren't going to be selling your services 370 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,950 to this company and so you should like 371 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,840 really think hard about like what makes 372 00:13:16,950 --> 00:13:20,550 your services like worth selling in a 373 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,260 sense unlike and that's not to say that 374 00:13:20,550 --> 00:13:23,760 like some people don't have services on 375 00:13:22,260 --> 00:13:25,380 hard we are all valuable as employees 376 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,540 it's about finding what makes you a 377 00:13:25,380 --> 00:13:29,160 particular value I mean like and there's 378 00:13:27,540 --> 00:13:30,990 it's not a crime to highlight things 379 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,339 which will like what you like about 380 00:13:30,990 --> 00:13:36,960 yourself or the skills you think you 381 00:13:32,340 --> 00:13:38,370 have I got that as well like you can 382 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,830 tell a lot about a company from what 383 00:13:38,370 --> 00:13:42,210 they're asking you so in that process of 384 00:13:40,830 --> 00:13:44,250 applying and writing things down it's 385 00:13:42,210 --> 00:13:45,780 like you know you're thinking well am i 386 00:13:44,250 --> 00:13:47,820 suitable for this thing is this a place 387 00:13:45,780 --> 00:13:53,280 and environment I want to be and you can 388 00:13:47,820 --> 00:13:55,620 normally gauge that through the way but 389 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:57,540 yeah honestly honesty is absolutely key 390 00:13:55,620 --> 00:14:00,060 among reviews so I be sitting in 391 00:13:57,540 --> 00:14:01,439 interviews and they said how to program 392 00:14:00,060 --> 00:14:03,449 experience how much development have you 393 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,920 done I've been fully honest setting an 394 00:14:03,450 --> 00:14:07,440 interview in front of two people and 395 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,250 said I'm a terrible programmer I'm not 396 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,470 going to pretend that we're good 397 00:14:08,250 --> 00:14:11,670 programmer because if they give me after 398 00:14:10,470 --> 00:14:13,710 knowing the lines of code to do record 399 00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:15,930 review on it's not gonna stand a chance 400 00:14:13,710 --> 00:14:17,790 and so it's better to be honest 401 00:14:15,930 --> 00:14:19,469 companies will accept that don't accept 402 00:14:17,790 --> 00:14:20,939 especially as a junior that you don't 403 00:14:19,470 --> 00:14:23,160 know everything and they will not expect 404 00:14:20,940 --> 00:14:25,260 you to know everything being kind of all 405 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,670 that because although it simple it's not 406 00:14:25,260 --> 00:14:28,230 what you said Tennyson is not one to 407 00:14:26,670 --> 00:14:29,670 sell yourself no I think it's really 408 00:14:28,230 --> 00:14:33,840 easy to kind of understand something 409 00:14:29,670 --> 00:14:35,550 civil actually this actually again 410 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,470 taking a step back and of critical about 411 00:14:35,550 --> 00:14:39,000 vision himself and sin actually I am 412 00:14:37,470 --> 00:14:42,870 pretty good at this these two things 413 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:44,670 maybe one thing I see is go through 414 00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:46,590 things that I've done in the past and 415 00:14:44,670 --> 00:14:47,760 see what skills and I'm just looking if 416 00:14:46,590 --> 00:14:49,380 I was looking at it from someone else's 417 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,670 perspective and like well let's say if I 418 00:14:49,380 --> 00:14:53,490 look behind see they pretend it's my 419 00:14:50,670 --> 00:14:55,530 friends and then it says oh I develop 420 00:14:53,490 --> 00:14:58,080 this project or I did this thing what 421 00:14:55,530 --> 00:14:59,819 skills do they demonstrate when they say 422 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,380 they've done that and then using those 423 00:14:59,820 --> 00:15:03,090 like the skills which commonly come up 424 00:15:01,380 --> 00:15:05,910 so that's their first if I've done a lot 425 00:15:03,090 --> 00:15:07,320 of programming and then I like I keep 426 00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:08,670 getting okay what skills of money that's 427 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,350 like attention to detail and like 428 00:15:08,670 --> 00:15:12,329 programming experience and so on then I 429 00:15:10,350 --> 00:15:14,400 would like be comfortable using those as 430 00:15:12,330 --> 00:15:15,230 skills and the job application even 431 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,550 though like I'm up 432 00:15:15,230 --> 00:15:18,890 might offer to like consider myself 433 00:15:16,550 --> 00:15:20,569 perfectly go to programming or or I 434 00:15:18,890 --> 00:15:22,189 might like consider myself like like 435 00:15:20,570 --> 00:15:23,990 Bartman area because it keeps coming up 436 00:15:22,190 --> 00:15:27,950 in my previous experience and so on so 437 00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:29,330 it's a good it's a good tool to consider 438 00:15:27,950 --> 00:15:30,280 what experience you have and then see 439 00:15:29,330 --> 00:15:31,460 what skills you can get from that 440 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:35,510 listens 441 00:15:31,460 --> 00:15:36,830 so moving on how long do you tease if 442 00:15:35,510 --> 00:15:39,130 I'm putting form and is it is a 443 00:15:36,830 --> 00:15:42,710 different depending on their size to 444 00:15:39,130 --> 00:15:47,240 this it varies depending on the size and 445 00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:49,010 it varies depending on the job so when I 446 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,960 applied to my current employer they were 447 00:15:49,010 --> 00:15:53,480 pretty small or it's a pretty quick 448 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,820 application process still did generally 449 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,350 get back to you pretty quicker 450 00:15:54,820 --> 00:16:00,380 conversely I applied to some very very 451 00:15:57,350 --> 00:16:01,850 large enterprises and they got back to 452 00:16:00,380 --> 00:16:04,670 me I think three weeks ago and off a 453 00:16:01,850 --> 00:16:09,230 minute with you and I applied December 454 00:16:04,670 --> 00:16:11,060 are you and a quarter ago so how long it 455 00:16:09,230 --> 00:16:12,740 takes companies to get back to you can 456 00:16:11,060 --> 00:16:14,750 vary and massively depending on the size 457 00:16:12,740 --> 00:16:16,760 and how much you should chase them 458 00:16:14,750 --> 00:16:18,710 depends on how much you want your job so 459 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:21,590 I was very very keen I'm going to work 460 00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:23,000 my current employer so if I hadn't heard 461 00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:24,440 back I definitely would have chased them 462 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,930 up just to see how your applications 463 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:29,660 going but with that larger company I 464 00:16:26,930 --> 00:16:32,719 just I applied more for the name rather 465 00:16:29,660 --> 00:16:34,490 than wanting to work for them so I 466 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,560 wasn't particularly fussy about chasing 467 00:16:34,490 --> 00:16:39,140 the I didn't how long would you live 468 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,579 before chasing the company right now if 469 00:16:39,140 --> 00:16:43,430 you hadn't have received a response a 470 00:16:40,580 --> 00:16:44,990 lot of it before maybe a few weeks I 471 00:16:43,430 --> 00:16:48,229 found this research station application 472 00:16:44,990 --> 00:16:49,430 and yeah it also depends how quickly 473 00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:51,770 you're working to get into employment 474 00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:55,609 law so I began the application process 475 00:16:51,770 --> 00:16:57,439 in December of 2017 for starting in June 476 00:16:55,610 --> 00:17:00,110 of 2018 fair like when I finished 477 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:02,180 University so there was definitely more 478 00:17:00,110 --> 00:17:03,170 leeway because I pretty much had six 479 00:17:02,180 --> 00:17:06,079 months to go through the application 480 00:17:03,170 --> 00:17:08,349 process but if there was less time for 481 00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:10,280 when you're working to start the job 482 00:17:08,349 --> 00:17:12,939 definitely people throughout time avoid 483 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:16,099 chasing up yeah I definitely add to that 484 00:17:12,940 --> 00:17:17,630 it's not rude to share sup an email and 485 00:17:16,099 --> 00:17:20,179 it's something that I kind of felt like 486 00:17:17,630 --> 00:17:21,860 I was father these are people with real 487 00:17:20,180 --> 00:17:22,670 jobs you have lots of seconds today and 488 00:17:21,859 --> 00:17:25,099 I'm just a student 489 00:17:22,670 --> 00:17:26,300 you know I'm sure right but if they 490 00:17:25,099 --> 00:17:28,040 don't get back to you like people are 491 00:17:26,300 --> 00:17:29,930 busy and like cheersing and up shows 492 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:33,440 here enthusiastic by that job and shoes 493 00:17:29,930 --> 00:17:35,120 to your I get to actually sell in your 494 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,800 mind it's not just you applied to 500 495 00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:40,070 companies or not you're not worried 496 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:41,930 about you know so James how long were 497 00:17:40,070 --> 00:17:45,290 you how long was your interview process 498 00:17:41,930 --> 00:17:47,270 with a beating so the way the BT 499 00:17:45,290 --> 00:17:49,850 graduate scheme to be process works it's 500 00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:52,010 perfect for my sections I want to say so 501 00:17:49,850 --> 00:17:53,270 you have a few online tests once you've 502 00:17:52,010 --> 00:17:54,770 done that you don't have a phone call 503 00:17:53,270 --> 00:17:57,020 interview it's kind of soft skills that 504 00:17:54,770 --> 00:17:58,580 you get for the role either tech phone 505 00:17:57,020 --> 00:17:59,930 interview and then you have an 506 00:17:58,580 --> 00:18:02,449 assessment center that assessment 507 00:17:59,930 --> 00:18:04,760 centers a full day in Ipswich under me 508 00:18:02,450 --> 00:18:06,140 and then that kind of has my challenges 509 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,090 you know your hair between one 510 00:18:06,140 --> 00:18:10,880 individual one of the network diagram 511 00:18:08,090 --> 00:18:12,530 and so comparatively to maybe some 512 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:15,200 smaller companies that's quite a long 513 00:18:12,530 --> 00:18:16,639 program and it kind of makes you 514 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,590 actually sure that you actually want to 515 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,150 work for that company if you go from 516 00:18:18,590 --> 00:18:21,860 that entire person did you cheers 517 00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:23,660 through I did or did you just wait for 518 00:18:21,860 --> 00:18:24,889 they were quite good to be that then 519 00:18:23,660 --> 00:18:26,360 quite good to make keeping you involved 520 00:18:24,890 --> 00:18:28,460 if you keep going events and stuff like 521 00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:30,530 that is definitely run preparing for 522 00:18:28,460 --> 00:18:35,750 other big companies that were less 523 00:18:30,530 --> 00:18:37,760 involved now it puts us um so how was 524 00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:40,700 your experience with into the process 525 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,710 good and I mean I thought it was really 526 00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:45,890 nice I mean with mindfully I work in a 527 00:18:42,710 --> 00:18:47,870 team of four pen testers and so it's 528 00:18:45,890 --> 00:18:50,600 like really small team as it is so when 529 00:18:47,870 --> 00:18:53,870 I was going for the job I think I 530 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:55,490 messaged on I was set an email because 531 00:18:53,870 --> 00:18:57,500 he had my boss had a challenge on the 532 00:18:55,490 --> 00:18:58,700 website so I sent my email literally at 533 00:18:57,500 --> 00:19:00,920 four in the morning I've got reply to 534 00:18:58,700 --> 00:19:01,460 five in the morning because my boss is 535 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,170 nuts 536 00:19:01,460 --> 00:19:06,080 made a great way and a great way people 537 00:19:03,170 --> 00:19:07,970 but yeah so for me I think when we 538 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,980 actually started the interview it was 539 00:19:07,970 --> 00:19:11,960 really informal because I with small 540 00:19:09,980 --> 00:19:13,640 companies you're not doing massive 541 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,500 technical interviews a lot of the time 542 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,000 you know it's more about fitting into 543 00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:20,420 the team and you know what can you offer 544 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:22,880 so we just went for lunch like you 545 00:19:20,420 --> 00:19:24,410 literally little hotel in Cambridge went 546 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,570 and sat had some lunch and just have a 547 00:19:24,410 --> 00:19:28,550 chat and and it was a very like honest 548 00:19:26,570 --> 00:19:29,990 it's like you know he asked me some 549 00:19:28,550 --> 00:19:33,169 technical questions and some soft 550 00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:35,900 questions and yeah it was just more 551 00:19:33,170 --> 00:19:37,940 about gauging how you defend the team 552 00:19:35,900 --> 00:19:39,440 rather than you know what your 553 00:19:37,940 --> 00:19:40,580 experience level is I mean 554 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,049 I think at the end of it especially with 555 00:19:40,580 --> 00:19:44,029 junior positions I can't speak when they 556 00:19:42,049 --> 00:19:45,799 ask but like you know everybody is aware 557 00:19:44,029 --> 00:19:46,909 that you know there are gonna be areas 558 00:19:45,799 --> 00:19:48,679 missing but that's the whole point 559 00:19:46,909 --> 00:19:50,659 because you're building up your skills 560 00:19:48,679 --> 00:19:53,480 over especially the internships over the 561 00:19:50,659 --> 00:19:55,159 year so you know it's interesting that 562 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,360 you mention like soft skills in 563 00:19:55,159 --> 00:19:58,250 particular because I imagine this part 564 00:19:56,360 --> 00:19:59,418 of a small team that it is quite I mean 565 00:19:58,250 --> 00:20:01,129 not getting on with your colleague is 566 00:19:59,419 --> 00:20:02,330 quite this is quite important and you 567 00:20:01,129 --> 00:20:05,178 only got like a number of them right so 568 00:20:02,330 --> 00:20:07,158 like yeah that involve was it like this 569 00:20:05,179 --> 00:20:09,500 thing I mean everything for us is very 570 00:20:07,159 --> 00:20:11,929 much like slack based and chassis anyway 571 00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:13,549 so you know throughout the way that our 572 00:20:11,929 --> 00:20:16,360 team works it's just communication 573 00:20:13,549 --> 00:20:18,649 really it's making sure that you know 574 00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:19,908 people know whether each other stand and 575 00:20:18,649 --> 00:20:22,070 what's being done and that everything's 576 00:20:19,909 --> 00:20:23,360 just organized well and I think 577 00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:25,490 especially with our company they were 578 00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:27,949 looking for people that have them 579 00:20:25,490 --> 00:20:30,139 organizational skills but still have a 580 00:20:27,950 --> 00:20:32,299 bit of common sense sinking off and go 581 00:20:30,139 --> 00:20:35,629 right up and as he was doing let's do 582 00:20:32,299 --> 00:20:37,129 that that's kind of thing so have a 583 00:20:35,629 --> 00:20:39,469 question for you can generally related 584 00:20:37,129 --> 00:20:41,689 to this albeit so he moved from job to 585 00:20:39,470 --> 00:20:44,000 job rather than night of university into 586 00:20:41,690 --> 00:20:45,559 jobs it was a how did they how did your 587 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,240 previous one experience come into play 588 00:20:45,559 --> 00:20:48,379 in the like interview process like 589 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,720 because she'd been through before did 590 00:20:48,379 --> 00:20:53,658 you find second how much easier or like 591 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:56,179 how did wildly different okay feel 592 00:20:53,659 --> 00:20:58,460 because I moved from part-time working 593 00:20:56,179 --> 00:21:02,000 at KFC to full-time working as 594 00:20:58,460 --> 00:21:05,929 friendship I was very lucky to have the 595 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:07,519 part-time work was at college because it 596 00:21:05,929 --> 00:21:12,320 meant switching into the apprenticeship 597 00:21:07,519 --> 00:21:15,559 I was switching from part-time learning 598 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:18,529 part-time working two part-time learning 599 00:21:15,559 --> 00:21:19,970 part-time working and then as a going 600 00:21:18,529 --> 00:21:22,850 through the stages of the apprenticeship 601 00:21:19,970 --> 00:21:25,389 that was slowly being evolved into 602 00:21:22,850 --> 00:21:28,668 full-time working and that was how I 603 00:21:25,389 --> 00:21:31,668 didn't really struggle too much in 604 00:21:28,669 --> 00:21:35,539 acclimatizing myself it was quite it was 605 00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:38,330 a very nice process so I very much 606 00:21:35,539 --> 00:21:40,129 recommend apprenticeships mm-hmm in 607 00:21:38,330 --> 00:21:46,279 terms of this sport I first getting a 608 00:21:40,129 --> 00:21:48,439 bit off the experience with it as even 609 00:21:46,279 --> 00:21:50,930 with enterprises I found a lot of them 610 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:55,480 are a bit more informal nowadays 611 00:21:50,930 --> 00:21:58,970 I've never experienced the long kind of 612 00:21:55,480 --> 00:22:02,510 tear by tear by tear by tear company 613 00:21:58,970 --> 00:22:04,310 because it's bends yeah yeah the other 614 00:22:02,510 --> 00:22:06,110 company I applied to for internships 615 00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:09,320 they had like a web app that you had to 616 00:22:06,110 --> 00:22:10,820 do a test on as well and I think things 617 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,720 like that you know when you're sat and 618 00:22:10,820 --> 00:22:13,580 you're actually getting an opportunity 619 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,320 to do practical skills a lot of 620 00:22:13,580 --> 00:22:17,449 employers now I've seen my I think NCC 621 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:19,040 have been engineering and a few other 622 00:22:17,450 --> 00:22:20,390 companies do it so that they're great as 623 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,879 well and I think you get a real sense 624 00:22:20,390 --> 00:22:24,740 again for yourself am I gonna be a fit 625 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,270 here is this the kind of thing I want to 626 00:22:24,740 --> 00:22:28,700 be doing and I think at the end of the 627 00:22:26,270 --> 00:22:30,710 day with employers when it comes to like 628 00:22:28,700 --> 00:22:32,300 looking for this first job there's two 629 00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:33,860 approaches really you can go down you're 630 00:22:32,300 --> 00:22:35,030 going like the Hail Mary attack we're 631 00:22:33,860 --> 00:22:37,219 going for everyone we're just sending 632 00:22:35,030 --> 00:22:38,960 out 50 million applications I mean that 633 00:22:37,220 --> 00:22:40,700 will work you know if you send out a 634 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,860 load then you know you've bounced hear 635 00:22:40,700 --> 00:22:44,510 back from a few but I think the approach 636 00:22:42,860 --> 00:22:46,699 that I would always recommend is like 637 00:22:44,510 --> 00:22:48,470 sit and look at the company you know 638 00:22:46,700 --> 00:22:51,050 look at them on LinkedIn and YouTube 639 00:22:48,470 --> 00:22:53,030 them and all this and really get to know 640 00:22:51,050 --> 00:22:55,070 the people like that are involve like I 641 00:22:53,030 --> 00:22:57,649 know with the company end up working for 642 00:22:55,070 --> 00:22:59,060 you know I was searching I looked 643 00:22:57,650 --> 00:23:00,620 through the employees and I was watching 644 00:22:59,060 --> 00:23:02,450 they had some videos when YouTube and I 645 00:23:00,620 --> 00:23:03,919 it was but making me smile and I was 646 00:23:02,450 --> 00:23:05,990 like you know I love the look of this 647 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,970 company of the feel this is why I want 648 00:23:05,990 --> 00:23:09,890 to work so then when I was writing my 649 00:23:07,970 --> 00:23:11,870 emails and stuff they were targeted to 650 00:23:09,890 --> 00:23:14,180 the company I was like you know I like 651 00:23:11,870 --> 00:23:15,469 this I've seen this and I would love to 652 00:23:14,180 --> 00:23:17,180 be involved it you know this is what I 653 00:23:15,470 --> 00:23:19,220 can offer you kind of thing and I think 654 00:23:17,180 --> 00:23:21,020 that really helps because when you're 655 00:23:19,220 --> 00:23:23,150 establishing that connection with the 656 00:23:21,020 --> 00:23:25,550 employer rather than going hey hire me 657 00:23:23,150 --> 00:23:27,710 you're going hey so-and-so you know I've 658 00:23:25,550 --> 00:23:29,870 seen this about you and I really want to 659 00:23:27,710 --> 00:23:31,340 work your company on this because you 660 00:23:29,870 --> 00:23:32,750 know then you're building it you're 661 00:23:31,340 --> 00:23:35,750 building a relationship and I think 662 00:23:32,750 --> 00:23:37,730 that's nice so you were saying yeah so 663 00:23:35,750 --> 00:23:39,590 I'm it is important to remember that 664 00:23:37,730 --> 00:23:43,100 this is just our experiences and there 665 00:23:39,590 --> 00:23:45,050 are massive variety event a few 666 00:23:43,100 --> 00:23:47,689 experiences everyone will have so I went 667 00:23:45,050 --> 00:23:49,520 from Lou and someone if you got me an 668 00:23:47,690 --> 00:23:52,010 interview I couldn't come down with no 669 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,960 which was a pretty standard process to 670 00:23:52,010 --> 00:23:56,570 something very formal that has a lot of 671 00:23:53,960 --> 00:24:00,020 aptitude tests with a larger company to 672 00:23:56,570 --> 00:24:01,669 then review which wasn't really an 673 00:24:00,020 --> 00:24:03,440 interview which was the job offer I got 674 00:24:01,670 --> 00:24:05,780 immediately after a talk so 675 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,610 that I wasn't aware that wasn't 676 00:24:05,780 --> 00:24:10,310 interview I didn't expect them to be an 677 00:24:07,610 --> 00:24:12,709 interview but the person who offered me 678 00:24:10,310 --> 00:24:14,030 the job for like an interview so there's 679 00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:16,460 a whole lot of different energy 680 00:24:14,030 --> 00:24:19,010 processes and why do it depends on the 681 00:24:16,460 --> 00:24:21,050 company yeah I think what you've just 682 00:24:19,010 --> 00:24:22,490 said there as well when you're in like 683 00:24:21,050 --> 00:24:24,260 when you're at places like this it's 684 00:24:22,490 --> 00:24:25,640 important you know there are people here 685 00:24:24,260 --> 00:24:26,990 like and this isn't just like people 686 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,760 that are doing stands like you know 687 00:24:26,990 --> 00:24:30,290 there are people that work for companies 688 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,730 so making them introductions and going 689 00:24:30,290 --> 00:24:33,500 oh yeah you know I'm here I'm looking 690 00:24:31,730 --> 00:24:36,290 for a placement I'm looking for a junior 691 00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:37,670 in my graduate you know by standing and 692 00:24:36,290 --> 00:24:39,470 talking to someone again it's like 693 00:24:37,670 --> 00:24:41,750 memorable because you're having that 694 00:24:39,470 --> 00:24:43,400 conversation and a lot other times I've 695 00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:44,690 found like you know they'll go off you 696 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,160 know here's a card like send me an email 697 00:24:44,690 --> 00:24:48,860 and you know because you've already had 698 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:51,800 that prior conversation it makes it more 699 00:24:48,860 --> 00:24:53,540 personal born again and I think I quite 700 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:56,149 follow this because it's something I saw 701 00:24:53,540 --> 00:24:58,670 the experience was it obvious to to you 702 00:24:56,150 --> 00:25:00,650 what you should prepare the questions 703 00:24:58,670 --> 00:25:02,030 written all is of course um was it 704 00:25:00,650 --> 00:25:03,380 obvious to you how you should prepare 705 00:25:02,030 --> 00:25:05,389 for the interview process that you would 706 00:25:03,380 --> 00:25:07,220 that you went through like was the 707 00:25:05,390 --> 00:25:08,600 company helpful and guidance and F not 708 00:25:07,220 --> 00:25:10,820 high did you like tackle that problem 709 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:13,070 because it's quite a lot but you could 710 00:25:10,820 --> 00:25:14,300 potentially they asked right so how did 711 00:25:13,070 --> 00:25:15,470 you guys approach that I just start 712 00:25:14,300 --> 00:25:17,270 preparing for the interview like this 713 00:25:15,470 --> 00:25:19,640 checking me you've got a little bit sex 714 00:25:17,270 --> 00:25:21,770 covered not something you absolutely 715 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:24,350 make sure you understand what type of an 716 00:25:21,770 --> 00:25:25,520 is really going for I've spoken to 717 00:25:24,350 --> 00:25:28,040 people in the past you think they're 718 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,360 prepared in the fairway car and soft 719 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,530 skills interview then they get on the 720 00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:31,850 floor and find out it's a technical 721 00:25:30,530 --> 00:25:34,340 interview and the talk we're unprepared 722 00:25:31,850 --> 00:25:36,800 so first and foremost make sure you know 723 00:25:34,340 --> 00:25:38,840 what type of interview preparing for and 724 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,580 prepare accordingly 725 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,110 past that if you know it's going to be a 726 00:25:40,580 --> 00:25:45,020 tentacle what if you just make sure you 727 00:25:42,110 --> 00:25:47,000 revise your just general technical 728 00:25:45,020 --> 00:25:49,879 knowledge just make sure you understand 729 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,620 what you what expense i one thing i 730 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,570 thought i funk will helpful that friends 731 00:25:51,620 --> 00:25:55,100 of my nephews there are question banks 732 00:25:53,570 --> 00:25:58,100 available and i know that actually the 733 00:25:55,100 --> 00:26:00,889 the armored kayakers has on their wiki a 734 00:25:58,100 --> 00:26:03,230 list of them to be fashioned yeah so i 735 00:26:00,890 --> 00:26:06,830 actually wrote that page and so on the 736 00:26:03,230 --> 00:26:08,990 hikes on vacation there's a simple 737 00:26:06,830 --> 00:26:11,178 there's a big list of common intentions 738 00:26:08,990 --> 00:26:13,279 and it's not saying like use the type of 739 00:26:11,179 --> 00:26:16,130 questions that X company will ask its 740 00:26:13,279 --> 00:26:17,809 the more generic stuff that comes up all 741 00:26:16,130 --> 00:26:20,169 the time with every employer so it's 742 00:26:17,809 --> 00:26:23,899 stuff like what's the difference between 743 00:26:20,169 --> 00:26:26,000 TCP and UDP what what is our how does 744 00:26:23,899 --> 00:26:28,250 DNS work stuff like that it's it's the 745 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,990 common stuff but that's I've had people 746 00:26:28,250 --> 00:26:32,059 gave me feedback to say that that's been 747 00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:33,950 a really useful resource because they 748 00:26:32,059 --> 00:26:36,980 are really really common questions I 749 00:26:33,950 --> 00:26:38,840 would Segway as well coming back to the 750 00:26:36,980 --> 00:26:40,549 university thing if you are at uni and 751 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,860 you're applying for these jobs I would 752 00:26:40,549 --> 00:26:44,570 like put it out there now but a lot of 753 00:26:42,860 --> 00:26:46,309 courses will not prepare that bit of 754 00:26:44,570 --> 00:26:48,200 text that some companies expect I know 755 00:26:46,309 --> 00:26:49,908 our university doesn't and something 756 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,820 what we're trying to help build like you 757 00:26:49,909 --> 00:26:54,710 know but I would recommend is start 758 00:26:52,820 --> 00:26:55,850 early like if you're in first year you 759 00:26:54,710 --> 00:26:57,470 know it's first year 760 00:26:55,850 --> 00:26:59,689 like you know do a bit of a flight your 761 00:26:57,470 --> 00:27:01,399 own time read some books you know hack 762 00:26:59,690 --> 00:27:02,330 some web apps you know it's all about 763 00:27:01,399 --> 00:27:04,760 experience because if you're building 764 00:27:02,330 --> 00:27:05,990 that knowledge base up early then when 765 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,940 it comes to the tech questions you won't 766 00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:09,470 and start some be panicking I think as 767 00:27:07,940 --> 00:27:10,610 you said earlier in regards University 768 00:27:09,470 --> 00:27:11,659 it really is what you make it like it 769 00:27:10,610 --> 00:27:14,269 yeah I think there's so much opportunity 770 00:27:11,659 --> 00:27:15,529 to learn that like like to like totally 771 00:27:14,269 --> 00:27:16,760 go to the classes I feel you're doing 772 00:27:15,529 --> 00:27:18,320 yourself a disservice because when it 773 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,059 comes to something wasn't covered and 774 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,620 quite like a tight curriculum and you 775 00:27:20,059 --> 00:27:23,658 might be like oh no what's this yeah I'm 776 00:27:21,620 --> 00:27:25,518 finding yourself time it's like the only 777 00:27:23,659 --> 00:27:27,440 time in your life as well that you have 778 00:27:25,519 --> 00:27:29,360 that much time look like when you 779 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,429 actually get a job your time doesn't 780 00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:39,019 exist here so you do it well you've got 781 00:27:31,429 --> 00:27:40,820 it I know time is fleeting okay so did 782 00:27:39,019 --> 00:27:43,820 you did you interview in long companies 783 00:27:40,820 --> 00:27:45,260 so did you see a common I better get a 784 00:27:43,820 --> 00:27:47,720 particular type of Adobe process that 785 00:27:45,260 --> 00:27:48,919 you saw multiple this mean a lot of 786 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,419 people have been applying for jobs now 787 00:27:48,919 --> 00:27:52,970 and so if they even if they knew what in 788 00:27:50,419 --> 00:27:55,370 due process to expect those be so like 789 00:27:52,970 --> 00:27:57,950 you said in regards to the previous 790 00:27:55,370 --> 00:27:59,149 question it does a very massively 791 00:27:57,950 --> 00:28:02,090 depending on the size of the company 792 00:27:59,149 --> 00:28:04,189 obviously what Chloe's experiences quite 793 00:28:02,090 --> 00:28:06,379 informal because it's a small company if 794 00:28:04,190 --> 00:28:07,549 you deal with a bigger company it's 795 00:28:06,380 --> 00:28:11,090 going to know priori different 796 00:28:07,549 --> 00:28:12,139 experience from that as well like you 797 00:28:11,090 --> 00:28:13,158 have to remember with corporate 798 00:28:12,139 --> 00:28:14,959 companies because they're so large 799 00:28:13,159 --> 00:28:16,580 they're probably getting in so many 800 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,529 Haitians so when you're going through 801 00:28:16,580 --> 00:28:20,090 their like filtering it down you know 802 00:28:18,529 --> 00:28:21,169 with each stage it's like refining and 803 00:28:20,090 --> 00:28:22,820 refining our fighting words 804 00:28:21,169 --> 00:28:25,640 I think smaller companies probably have 805 00:28:22,820 --> 00:28:27,529 less you know heavy load of people like 806 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,330 there's probably no not as much in flux 807 00:28:27,529 --> 00:28:31,070 so they've got a bit more time to have 808 00:28:29,330 --> 00:28:33,408 the personal conversation but I think 809 00:28:31,070 --> 00:28:34,850 you know look at yourself and kind of 810 00:28:33,409 --> 00:28:37,159 think oh you know what kind of company 811 00:28:34,850 --> 00:28:38,928 do you think I'm think I'm gonna fit in 812 00:28:37,159 --> 00:28:41,419 you know if you're like a chatty 813 00:28:38,929 --> 00:28:44,000 sociable you know chill person you might 814 00:28:41,419 --> 00:28:45,350 want like a side face chatty kind of job 815 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,210 but you know if you're a very much like 816 00:28:45,350 --> 00:28:48,740 you like your office maybe more 817 00:28:47,210 --> 00:28:50,179 corporate I think you know it's you have 818 00:28:48,740 --> 00:28:50,360 to think about the kind of person you 819 00:28:50,179 --> 00:28:55,159 are 820 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:56,270 yeah sorry third Segway Jack Soloff the 821 00:28:55,159 --> 00:28:58,190 spine so I actually played for a long 822 00:28:56,270 --> 00:29:00,230 companies so what doesn't is if I could 823 00:28:58,190 --> 00:29:02,690 get like 30 odd but they were only in 824 00:29:00,230 --> 00:29:04,580 about similar vein to BT sure so they 825 00:29:02,690 --> 00:29:06,020 all had a very similar process so 826 00:29:04,580 --> 00:29:07,730 they're all very much graduate schemes 827 00:29:06,020 --> 00:29:09,230 they will very much have this kind of 828 00:29:07,730 --> 00:29:11,270 this kind of like waiting awful 829 00:29:09,230 --> 00:29:12,890 filtering process to them and they were 830 00:29:11,270 --> 00:29:14,418 all very similar so you don't you know 831 00:29:12,890 --> 00:29:15,799 you always always have your soft skills 832 00:29:14,419 --> 00:29:17,720 you know sorts have your tech skills 833 00:29:15,799 --> 00:29:19,549 you don't always have like an assessment 834 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,840 center or a bunch of grads would meet 835 00:29:19,549 --> 00:29:23,210 one day they need to go through 836 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:26,629 challenges and that seems to be a very 837 00:29:23,210 --> 00:29:27,710 kind of by-the-book approach what was 838 00:29:26,630 --> 00:29:31,370 the hardest part of that do you think 839 00:29:27,710 --> 00:29:33,020 what I've been so I think you learn over 840 00:29:31,370 --> 00:29:34,789 time how to approach them I think for 841 00:29:33,020 --> 00:29:37,010 your first ever Assessment Center like 842 00:29:34,789 --> 00:29:38,149 I've no idea what's happening why they 843 00:29:37,010 --> 00:29:40,340 asking these questions they seem ready 844 00:29:38,149 --> 00:29:41,719 Hoff but I think over time you'll go to 845 00:29:40,340 --> 00:29:43,610 more assessment centers you'll kind of 846 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,990 see what they're looking for and 847 00:29:43,610 --> 00:29:46,729 sometimes the company just won't be a 848 00:29:44,990 --> 00:29:49,809 good fit but then sometimes you'll find 849 00:29:46,730 --> 00:29:51,950 one like BT where it's really good I 850 00:29:49,809 --> 00:29:53,990 guess they're the only solution that is 851 00:29:51,950 --> 00:29:55,250 to keep applying and keeps him writing 852 00:29:53,990 --> 00:30:04,159 and researching a company which is hard 853 00:29:55,250 --> 00:30:06,799 for you right yeah cool so okay so kind 854 00:30:04,159 --> 00:30:08,210 of I kind of got there was a question 855 00:30:06,799 --> 00:30:11,899 buying in a bit early but what types of 856 00:30:08,210 --> 00:30:14,270 questions did you encounter German TV so 857 00:30:11,899 --> 00:30:15,770 I think if we started with technical 858 00:30:14,270 --> 00:30:17,870 interviews like what kind of technical 859 00:30:15,770 --> 00:30:20,120 knowledge were you guys assume to know 860 00:30:17,870 --> 00:30:21,889 so like I think it would be helpful like 861 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,840 just like to say your role and then like 862 00:30:21,890 --> 00:30:24,860 what kind of like that question is Kim 863 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:28,820 come on 864 00:30:24,860 --> 00:30:30,379 sure so I'm a junior pen tester 865 00:30:28,820 --> 00:30:31,790 they based on that then these are going 866 00:30:30,380 --> 00:30:34,280 to be bad interview questions are going 867 00:30:31,790 --> 00:30:35,629 to be fantastically it is not going to 868 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:40,610 be kind of like I know Esther awaited 869 00:30:35,630 --> 00:30:42,460 questions as far as the actual technical 870 00:30:40,610 --> 00:30:46,209 interview goes it can be anywhere from 871 00:30:42,460 --> 00:30:50,540 like hacking a web app to hacking 872 00:30:46,210 --> 00:30:54,110 infrastructure that can be weird kind of 873 00:30:50,540 --> 00:30:56,840 puzzle with things like that you get the 874 00:30:54,110 --> 00:30:59,060 more general knowledge technical 875 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:07,250 questions like I mentioned out over TCP 876 00:30:59,060 --> 00:31:08,600 and UDP and DNS and all that stuff how 877 00:31:07,250 --> 00:31:10,220 do you prepare for that so I go like 878 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,629 this I go like the testing for instance 879 00:31:10,220 --> 00:31:14,300 the web app and infrastructure testing 880 00:31:11,630 --> 00:31:15,950 there any resources there's a lots and 881 00:31:14,300 --> 00:31:17,629 lots of resources for practice and so 882 00:31:15,950 --> 00:31:19,370 for practice and whether parkin you've 883 00:31:17,630 --> 00:31:21,260 got stuff like the damn phone or web app 884 00:31:19,370 --> 00:31:23,030 from all wars for practice and 885 00:31:21,260 --> 00:31:25,670 infrastructure you've got stuff like 886 00:31:23,030 --> 00:31:28,700 half the box you can spin up your own 887 00:31:25,670 --> 00:31:32,540 like Windows XP box and just try and 888 00:31:28,700 --> 00:31:35,690 shower I have certainly the university 889 00:31:32,540 --> 00:31:37,100 we've got a load of vulnerable the ends 890 00:31:35,690 --> 00:31:38,900 that we've used for various coursework 891 00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:41,600 so you can go back and practice on them 892 00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:43,130 for the technical interviews there's a 893 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,340 whole world of resources on why you both 894 00:31:43,130 --> 00:31:49,820 public and some private and mostly free 895 00:31:46,340 --> 00:31:52,310 some paid but some resources chucking as 896 00:31:49,820 --> 00:31:54,649 well immersive labs if for uni students 897 00:31:52,310 --> 00:31:56,300 social you can get it free and yeah 898 00:31:54,650 --> 00:31:59,180 that's really good because that's just 899 00:31:56,300 --> 00:32:02,210 on line and there's no fact about so 900 00:31:59,180 --> 00:32:03,710 that's that's nice yeah no I'm so that 901 00:32:02,210 --> 00:32:05,270 was ready and any bit of technical 902 00:32:03,710 --> 00:32:07,370 questions which time for you and your 903 00:32:05,270 --> 00:32:10,250 advice was written in apprenticeships 904 00:32:07,370 --> 00:32:12,169 committees not so much not so much they 905 00:32:10,250 --> 00:32:14,360 punch it but talking about when I was 906 00:32:12,170 --> 00:32:16,370 getting my actual roles it was more it 907 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,469 was always a scenario base the same as 908 00:32:16,370 --> 00:32:19,610 that but there was also a more of mix of 909 00:32:18,470 --> 00:32:22,210 the soft skills kind of questions 910 00:32:19,610 --> 00:32:23,990 because of a lot of the work come be 911 00:32:22,210 --> 00:32:27,470 Incident Response and deal with 912 00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:28,340 high-stress situations so things are on 913 00:32:27,470 --> 00:32:30,470 fire 914 00:32:28,340 --> 00:32:33,070 something spread in it's costing the 915 00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:36,410 company millions a minute and it's just 916 00:32:33,070 --> 00:32:39,050 assessing things like will you keep a 917 00:32:36,410 --> 00:32:41,000 level head during that will you panic we 918 00:32:39,050 --> 00:32:42,169 just completely shut down who would you 919 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,210 talk to 920 00:32:42,170 --> 00:32:47,330 even if you didn't know the information 921 00:32:44,210 --> 00:32:48,890 are you just gonna flap in the moment or 922 00:32:47,330 --> 00:32:51,169 you can actually turn to your colleague 923 00:32:48,890 --> 00:32:52,850 and go help how do you prepare for that 924 00:32:51,170 --> 00:32:53,930 and that's the nice thing because I know 925 00:32:52,850 --> 00:32:55,429 I find that quite difficult I 926 00:32:53,930 --> 00:33:01,460 fortunately never had the scenario it is 927 00:32:55,430 --> 00:33:03,950 difficult cause it is more of is more of 928 00:33:01,460 --> 00:33:07,730 a split 50-50 so it's like the technical 929 00:33:03,950 --> 00:33:10,070 side of knowing all the different core 930 00:33:07,730 --> 00:33:12,050 aspects of information security that you 931 00:33:10,070 --> 00:33:13,550 might know as a pen tester as well but 932 00:33:12,050 --> 00:33:15,889 then you might have more specifics in 933 00:33:13,550 --> 00:33:18,169 forensics looking at packet analysis 934 00:33:15,890 --> 00:33:20,540 things like that monitoring looking at 935 00:33:18,170 --> 00:33:22,190 alarms or what they mean are difficult 936 00:33:20,540 --> 00:33:24,070 attacks things like that I can 937 00:33:22,190 --> 00:33:27,020 understand and like the funny apples of 938 00:33:24,070 --> 00:33:28,520 life and then how old that actually fits 939 00:33:27,020 --> 00:33:32,960 in your day today and how you'd actually 940 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:34,970 deal with it and how you actually start 941 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,860 touching on things like risk it a bit 942 00:33:34,970 --> 00:33:38,330 more governance e stuff just so you have 943 00:33:36,860 --> 00:33:40,310 the awareness and how it fits into your 944 00:33:38,330 --> 00:33:42,409 work and make sure you can actually work 945 00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:44,990 with other people in the business a lot 946 00:33:42,410 --> 00:33:48,530 of it is teamwork and getting things 947 00:33:44,990 --> 00:33:49,130 fixed so just before we move on to the 948 00:33:48,530 --> 00:33:52,129 next section 949 00:33:49,130 --> 00:33:54,260 does anyone else because we are we will 950 00:33:52,130 --> 00:33:56,030 need a few items relating to this part 951 00:33:54,260 --> 00:33:57,710 of the other processes anyone else have 952 00:33:56,030 --> 00:34:20,300 any questions related to like the 953 00:33:57,710 --> 00:34:24,139 interview process or anything yeah it's 954 00:34:20,300 --> 00:34:27,800 an XY cause I've um a nice study member 955 00:34:24,139 --> 00:34:30,799 so I'm throwing I hope this one like 956 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,970 certainly some companies do pay to the 957 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,919 200 of you like certainly bigger 958 00:34:31,969 --> 00:34:35,600 companies well we will offer to like 959 00:34:33,918 --> 00:34:37,520 embrace your travel but although I 960 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,290 caveat for that it is and will be like 961 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,210 reimburse so you buy it and then they 962 00:34:39,290 --> 00:34:46,009 will they will pay you back in some 963 00:34:41,210 --> 00:34:47,600 cases in response to there are some 964 00:34:46,010 --> 00:34:50,060 using Scotland but I think it's the 965 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,980 start the stylist industry is quite like 966 00:34:50,060 --> 00:34:53,840 small like everyone knows each other so 967 00:34:51,980 --> 00:34:55,670 like it goes a long way like I'm going 968 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,830 there are that coming up stubborn laws 969 00:34:55,670 --> 00:35:00,560 do and like there are the there are 970 00:34:57,830 --> 00:35:01,850 other mediums like around effin cities 971 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,320 in solid matter we're going to if you're 972 00:35:01,850 --> 00:35:05,930 looking friend but don't want to be 973 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:09,580 unsafe and then did did anyone else 974 00:35:05,930 --> 00:35:11,480 travel to interview you saw it as far as 975 00:35:09,580 --> 00:35:13,610 reimbursement goes it doesn't hurt to 976 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,860 ask if you send the recruiter with HR 977 00:35:13,610 --> 00:35:18,290 pass an email and say hey are you going 978 00:35:15,860 --> 00:35:19,640 to cover travel they're not gonna be 979 00:35:18,290 --> 00:35:21,680 offenders like it's not like it's coming 980 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,790 out of your paycheck it's coming out of 981 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,710 the company they're not gonna be 982 00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:27,140 offended if you ask it would hurt to ask 983 00:35:24,710 --> 00:35:27,710 I've danced then you may have to wait 984 00:35:27,140 --> 00:35:30,109 for it 985 00:35:27,710 --> 00:35:31,700 I had one employer offered to boot 986 00:35:30,110 --> 00:35:33,950 fights for me why they would do it so I 987 00:35:31,700 --> 00:35:36,580 wouldn't go if pocket one other company 988 00:35:33,950 --> 00:35:39,890 asked me to pay then the reimbursed me 989 00:35:36,580 --> 00:35:41,569 within like two weeks then there was an 990 00:35:39,890 --> 00:35:50,000 our company are we in two months for my 991 00:35:41,570 --> 00:35:51,620 expenses to come back yes with the 992 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,630 bigger companies most the big companies 993 00:35:51,620 --> 00:35:55,520 will expect you lying there you're going 994 00:35:53,630 --> 00:35:57,890 to expense to grow soon to be team 995 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,870 definitely affect rankings and other big 996 00:35:57,890 --> 00:36:02,299 companies will expense your travel yeah 997 00:35:59,870 --> 00:36:02,960 I will say smaller companies it is a lot 998 00:36:02,300 --> 00:36:04,520 harder 999 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,900 I know it's my company there's certain 1000 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,390 things they'll cover they'll cover 1001 00:36:05,900 --> 00:36:10,730 travel and stuff but you know 1002 00:36:07,390 --> 00:36:11,900 accommodation and stuff yeah I think 1003 00:36:10,730 --> 00:36:16,010 that's the thing like bigger companies 1004 00:36:11,900 --> 00:36:19,370 are definitely a lot more money because 1005 00:36:16,010 --> 00:36:21,230 they're bigger but I think what you've 1006 00:36:19,370 --> 00:36:22,430 said you know ask because a lot of them 1007 00:36:21,230 --> 00:36:23,780 you know at the end of the day if you're 1008 00:36:22,430 --> 00:36:25,069 impressed the money you feel at the CV 1009 00:36:23,780 --> 00:36:27,350 is impressed them enough that they want 1010 00:36:25,070 --> 00:36:28,880 to see you then that you know you have 1011 00:36:27,350 --> 00:36:31,069 to approach it like oh it's a positive 1012 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:33,500 thing so they want to invest in you 1013 00:36:31,070 --> 00:36:35,630 almost I think something to remember is 1014 00:36:33,500 --> 00:36:37,730 that like recruitment is expensive oh 1015 00:36:35,630 --> 00:36:39,200 yeah like that they felt they're done 1016 00:36:37,730 --> 00:36:41,060 candidates and they've paid you why did 1017 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,169 you do an interview if they're going to 1018 00:36:41,060 --> 00:36:46,160 say oh no we're not going to cover your 1019 00:36:42,170 --> 00:36:48,410 cost so it's like a some tough love like 1020 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:51,140 it like for the company any normal 1021 00:36:48,410 --> 00:36:52,490 person I would also add to that what I 1022 00:36:51,140 --> 00:36:54,290 said earlier like when you when you are 1023 00:36:52,490 --> 00:36:55,790 applying if you're filtering it down and 1024 00:36:54,290 --> 00:36:57,529 making sure the best is like you love 1025 00:36:55,790 --> 00:36:58,820 the company first rather than get there 1026 00:36:57,530 --> 00:37:00,680 and decide all you know this might not 1027 00:36:58,820 --> 00:37:02,330 be the right fit if you spend that extra 1028 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:05,240 time that can be quite valuable 1029 00:37:02,330 --> 00:37:07,630 okay any other questions is for Yvonne 1030 00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:07,629 hi 1031 00:37:18,110 --> 00:37:25,980 so the other junior my important didn't 1032 00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:29,490 have any expectations we have 1033 00:37:25,980 --> 00:37:30,960 certifications some employers your 1034 00:37:29,490 --> 00:37:33,779 advancement depends on getting 1035 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:35,850 certifications so if you have them it 1036 00:37:33,780 --> 00:37:38,180 might help you to advance quicker but 1037 00:37:35,850 --> 00:37:40,110 there's certainly no expectations and 1038 00:37:38,180 --> 00:37:42,990 certifications are expensive they're 1039 00:37:40,110 --> 00:37:45,840 real expensive and even more so for a 1040 00:37:42,990 --> 00:37:48,000 student yeah I would say I'm quite lucky 1041 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:51,240 on my internship my employer is actually 1042 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,950 paying three studio SCP so a lot of the 1043 00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:54,569 time feeling like an internship or 1044 00:37:52,950 --> 00:37:55,859 something you know you can kind of work 1045 00:37:54,570 --> 00:37:57,120 it into the inch bingo oh you know I'm 1046 00:37:55,860 --> 00:37:58,680 really interested and kind of getting 1047 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,509 these because once you've done it in one 1048 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,770 job you know then it's something that 1049 00:38:00,510 --> 00:38:03,180 will stick with you for life kind of 1050 00:38:01,770 --> 00:38:05,490 thing I don't think it's the be-all and 1051 00:38:03,180 --> 00:38:13,620 end-all some certifications have more 1052 00:38:05,490 --> 00:38:15,299 value than others yeah yeah so without 1053 00:38:13,620 --> 00:38:17,549 going to specifics some will have more 1054 00:38:15,300 --> 00:38:21,770 values and others but from my experience 1055 00:38:17,550 --> 00:38:21,770 there was no expectations from an 1056 00:38:25,490 --> 00:38:58,020 employer yeah yeah I definitely think 1057 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,180 it's it's a good purpose to start the 1058 00:38:58,020 --> 00:39:01,320 fact that you're looking for like four 1059 00:39:00,180 --> 00:39:03,180 ways to develop you're learning outside 1060 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,850 of university like that's essentially 1061 00:39:03,180 --> 00:39:07,830 you don't need to like you need to spend 1062 00:39:05,850 --> 00:39:09,900 money to they can do that you can prove 1063 00:39:07,830 --> 00:39:11,430 that you're in chess and you're like 1064 00:39:09,900 --> 00:39:12,780 wanting to that improve your knowledge 1065 00:39:11,430 --> 00:39:13,609 with other ways like through your label 1066 00:39:12,780 --> 00:39:15,140 the source 1067 00:39:13,609 --> 00:39:16,788 like making it like a project yourself 1068 00:39:15,140 --> 00:39:18,499 or eventually with some of the 1069 00:39:16,789 --> 00:39:20,539 certifications there there's back is 1070 00:39:18,499 --> 00:39:21,919 online so like even taking a stop with 1071 00:39:20,539 --> 00:39:23,960 it without having access to materials 1072 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,210 and learning the kind of stuff that will 1073 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:30,799 be tested it certainly like I mean no 1074 00:39:26,210 --> 00:39:33,680 one's gonna expect you to by the way 1075 00:39:30,799 --> 00:39:35,960 that I've always prepared myself for 1076 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,999 technical you know moving into like a 1077 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,940 pen tester or which is what I do 1078 00:39:37,999 --> 00:39:43,038 I've always do like VM so like one or 1079 00:39:40,940 --> 00:39:45,440 more machines sit hack it right report 1080 00:39:43,039 --> 00:39:47,210 and it's genuinely like if you can show 1081 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,980 a especially for a pen testing point of 1082 00:39:47,210 --> 00:39:51,140 view a company that you can write a 1083 00:39:48,980 --> 00:39:53,989 report that is invaluable so then like 1084 00:39:51,140 --> 00:39:55,788 they'll love you so I'd build up like a 1085 00:39:53,989 --> 00:39:57,289 little repertoire like if you don't do 1086 00:39:55,789 --> 00:39:59,239 some vulnerable machines write up some 1087 00:39:57,289 --> 00:40:00,769 reports and then kind of you could go oh 1088 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,299 I have this Pro X where it's saying with 1089 00:40:00,769 --> 00:40:04,488 like half the box and stuff I think it 1090 00:40:02,299 --> 00:40:05,930 tracks you and how much progress you're 1091 00:40:04,489 --> 00:40:06,380 making see you know I've done these 1092 00:40:05,930 --> 00:40:08,419 things 1093 00:40:06,380 --> 00:40:10,130 zygarde this level yeah and I think 1094 00:40:08,420 --> 00:40:11,989 that's helpful higher box is super 1095 00:40:10,130 --> 00:40:14,180 valuable I used as a student and I still 1096 00:40:11,989 --> 00:40:16,369 use it as a ground you valuable for a 1097 00:40:14,180 --> 00:40:36,308 tester yep volleyball protester maybe 1098 00:40:16,369 --> 00:40:38,329 not so much for an analyst position so 1099 00:40:36,309 --> 00:40:39,710 the question was do you have any 1100 00:40:38,329 --> 00:40:42,049 personal projects and where I'm already 1101 00:40:39,710 --> 00:40:43,609 asked by them certainly is this really 1102 00:40:42,049 --> 00:40:46,730 the big testing or is this just a 1103 00:40:43,609 --> 00:40:49,098 general kind of I didn't have 1104 00:40:46,730 --> 00:40:51,619 interpersonal projects really so I I 1105 00:40:49,099 --> 00:40:53,900 discussed like how I did half the box to 1106 00:40:51,619 --> 00:40:55,940 practice for training I discussed the 1107 00:40:53,900 --> 00:40:56,960 conference's I'd attended and some talks 1108 00:40:55,940 --> 00:40:58,730 that I would enjoy to certain 1109 00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:01,099 conferences the speaking opportunities 1110 00:40:58,730 --> 00:41:04,130 I've done the research projects I've 1111 00:41:01,099 --> 00:41:06,499 done at university but I didn't really 1112 00:41:04,130 --> 00:41:09,730 have any personal projects like 1113 00:41:06,499 --> 00:41:12,140 development related and if that helps 1114 00:41:09,730 --> 00:41:14,059 yeah obviously it depends on the person 1115 00:41:12,140 --> 00:41:17,058 like I said I'm not big on development 1116 00:41:14,059 --> 00:41:18,410 but if someone is more of a developer 1117 00:41:17,059 --> 00:41:20,180 then great if you've got some cool 1118 00:41:18,410 --> 00:41:23,950 projects I'm get Harvey in Freddy to 1119 00:41:20,180 --> 00:41:23,950 open source stuff growing in 1120 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,680 so I should probably do the last section 1121 00:41:27,550 --> 00:41:31,270 so after you get the job I'm not sure 1122 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,540 image in your possession it is quite 1123 00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:36,820 like a sum of this time and my garnet is 1124 00:41:33,540 --> 00:41:39,009 tuned so we did we did receive a few 1125 00:41:36,820 --> 00:41:41,230 questions so how do you keep up with 1126 00:41:39,010 --> 00:41:46,080 trends and new technologies now that 1127 00:41:41,230 --> 00:41:49,180 you've secured a job - I put it I spend 1128 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:54,400 35 minutes on a tooth each way every day 1129 00:41:49,180 --> 00:41:55,810 and I use that time to read and so I use 1130 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:58,420 that time to catch up on it'll set 1131 00:41:55,810 --> 00:42:01,540 Twitter catch up on white just next 1132 00:41:58,420 --> 00:42:03,460 second sysadmin subreddits how can use Y 1133 00:42:01,540 --> 00:42:05,950 Combinator in full security magazine 1134 00:42:03,460 --> 00:42:08,260 stuff like that I just used the time to 1135 00:42:05,950 --> 00:42:10,330 read and all of that stuff is keeping up 1136 00:42:08,260 --> 00:42:14,370 with the current affairs better than 1137 00:42:10,330 --> 00:42:14,370 wasting and I really Alta to do nothing 1138 00:42:16,140 --> 00:42:20,170 so I think answer this question is to be 1139 00:42:18,730 --> 00:42:21,370 very different depending on where you 1140 00:42:20,170 --> 00:42:23,290 are in your career right like if you're 1141 00:42:21,370 --> 00:42:24,400 a career changer like the older you 1142 00:42:23,290 --> 00:42:27,300 might have different responsibilities 1143 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:29,350 and I think then your time window yeah 1144 00:42:27,300 --> 00:42:30,910 it's like I'm definitely flow people are 1145 00:42:29,350 --> 00:42:32,920 just like University great and if you've 1146 00:42:30,910 --> 00:42:34,540 got tons of spare time do these side 1147 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:37,390 projects you know I said write articles 1148 00:42:34,540 --> 00:42:38,890 or write code whatever the fitment or 1149 00:42:37,390 --> 00:42:40,600 you get on your career or whatever 1150 00:42:38,890 --> 00:42:43,089 you're gonna get less of that full-time 1151 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:48,279 so if they use it what you can do you 1152 00:42:43,090 --> 00:42:51,400 can do now you know in your spare time 1153 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:53,830 doing some you know PM's and stuff and 1154 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:56,440 also attending like meetups like I know 1155 00:42:53,830 --> 00:42:58,720 there's a lot of Def Con groups and you 1156 00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,730 know conferences and a lot of societies 1157 00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:02,560 as well so if you can get involved that 1158 00:43:00,730 --> 00:43:04,450 way you know you're not like stuck in an 1159 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,740 office or in your bedroom kind of away 1160 00:43:04,450 --> 00:43:07,480 from the world it's you know it's just 1161 00:43:05,740 --> 00:43:10,270 you know kind of getting out and doing 1162 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:12,820 the thing and I'm very often that I'm 1163 00:43:10,270 --> 00:43:14,350 Jim's a good grip it makes a great point 1164 00:43:12,820 --> 00:43:16,360 the way my parents implement people have 1165 00:43:14,350 --> 00:43:18,250 necessary like last time than students 1166 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,770 unlike junior like professionals so you 1167 00:43:18,250 --> 00:43:23,200 have all the time in the world so it's 1168 00:43:20,770 --> 00:43:25,060 important to once you're in the job to 1169 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,259 like discuss with your employer your 1170 00:43:25,060 --> 00:43:28,450 questions about them going forward 1171 00:43:26,260 --> 00:43:29,980 because like you are resource to your 1172 00:43:28,450 --> 00:43:31,450 company and they should be investing in 1173 00:43:29,980 --> 00:43:33,610 that resource and that's not you being 1174 00:43:31,450 --> 00:43:36,160 like gluttonous or greedy that's that's 1175 00:43:33,610 --> 00:43:37,910 just normal employment so speaking to 1176 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:40,100 your boss about if you want 1177 00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:41,750 if you want a kid like stamp with trans 1178 00:43:40,100 --> 00:43:43,220 new technologies may go into conferences 1179 00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:45,140 and you should ask them to like fun to 1180 00:43:43,220 --> 00:43:47,720 trim 3 or you should see if you can at 1181 00:43:45,140 --> 00:43:49,310 least like like this get the day like 1182 00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:50,480 I'm not a date offer they either or 1183 00:43:49,310 --> 00:43:51,440 something like that like it like it 1184 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,300 definitely is something that's very 1185 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:55,340 possible I know a lot of companies do so 1186 00:43:53,300 --> 00:43:57,500 as a junior do not be scared to ask for 1187 00:43:55,340 --> 00:43:59,120 it if your company doesn't like a lot of 1188 00:43:57,500 --> 00:44:01,220 companies also do research dates as well 1189 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,750 so they'll give you an allocated day we 1190 00:44:01,220 --> 00:44:04,220 can kind of spend it learning and 1191 00:44:02,750 --> 00:44:06,760 bettering your own skill set which on 1192 00:44:04,220 --> 00:44:09,080 this a lot of test results or later than 1193 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:12,260 you can expect some time to just not be 1194 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:13,430 on site oh my god again it's if you are 1195 00:44:12,260 --> 00:44:14,600 gonna have that conversation with your 1196 00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:16,850 employer and just know like you know I 1197 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,650 want to be the best test or I can be for 1198 00:44:16,850 --> 00:44:19,970 you or I'm gonna be the best in this job 1199 00:44:18,650 --> 00:44:21,800 you know I'm really interested in this 1200 00:44:19,970 --> 00:44:23,810 skill you know is there some allocated 1201 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,830 time that I can have to do that you know 1202 00:44:23,810 --> 00:44:26,060 yeah yeah 1203 00:44:24,830 --> 00:44:30,790 communicating is a big part of its 1204 00:44:26,060 --> 00:44:32,990 earning anything awesome 1205 00:44:30,790 --> 00:44:34,790 so a big one 1206 00:44:32,990 --> 00:44:37,339 how did you find us how you're working 1207 00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:39,470 full-time I'm supposed to good to know 1208 00:44:37,340 --> 00:44:42,320 you have to do are you just kind of know 1209 00:44:39,470 --> 00:44:45,830 I mean retracing what I said before is 1210 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:48,440 very much a gradual transition from 1211 00:44:45,830 --> 00:44:50,420 splitting learning and working up and 1212 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:53,120 then slowly working my way over to do 1213 00:44:50,420 --> 00:44:54,620 more and more work working full-time 1214 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,359 have you any advice for people who will 1215 00:44:54,620 --> 00:44:59,569 be are building for the first time when 1216 00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:01,070 they get a job I mean once what some 1217 00:44:59,570 --> 00:45:07,850 pinpointed with the software Cyrano you 1218 00:45:01,070 --> 00:45:10,460 know better spring seventy percent of 1219 00:45:07,850 --> 00:45:12,860 the job isn't particular technical it's 1220 00:45:10,460 --> 00:45:14,480 more knowing people in the company it's 1221 00:45:12,860 --> 00:45:18,020 more knowing the right people and having 1222 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,860 to deal with them all that's mostly what 1223 00:45:18,020 --> 00:45:23,030 I found 1224 00:45:18,860 --> 00:45:26,090 well my time is client-facing so it's 1225 00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:28,130 just knowing who to speak to where to 1226 00:45:26,090 --> 00:45:29,810 get the fastest resolution on whatever 1227 00:45:28,130 --> 00:45:35,060 the issue is still investigating 1228 00:45:29,810 --> 00:45:37,130 properly and that's say 70% small 90% 1229 00:45:35,060 --> 00:45:38,690 they're human organizations right like 1230 00:45:37,130 --> 00:45:42,040 they're they're made up of other people 1231 00:45:38,690 --> 00:45:42,040 so they got their people problems 1232 00:45:42,610 --> 00:45:46,880 the transition from ego into full-time 1233 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,910 employment working 40 hours a week and 1234 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,950 on the wistful I reckon I've maybe did 1235 00:45:49,910 --> 00:45:52,598 about 60 1236 00:45:50,950 --> 00:45:54,520 we keep University my fighting over your 1237 00:45:52,599 --> 00:45:56,890 dissertation and stuff like that 1238 00:45:54,520 --> 00:46:05,829 so go into a full-time job which Alma 1239 00:45:56,890 --> 00:46:08,259 had 40 hours a week I would like back to 1240 00:46:05,829 --> 00:46:09,670 what I said earlier like communication 1241 00:46:08,260 --> 00:46:11,799 with an employee is important I found 1242 00:46:09,670 --> 00:46:13,390 like moving into my internship like some 1243 00:46:11,799 --> 00:46:15,460 of it quite stressful because you know 1244 00:46:13,390 --> 00:46:17,500 being thrown in pens I see like I had 1245 00:46:15,460 --> 00:46:18,940 Auto pen test and you're sat in your 1246 00:46:17,500 --> 00:46:21,069 learning but I think if you ask 1247 00:46:18,940 --> 00:46:23,770 questions I mean I've made some really 1248 00:46:21,069 --> 00:46:25,299 stupid mistakes I manage I think it was 1249 00:46:23,770 --> 00:46:28,390 like my first couple of weeks I manage 1250 00:46:25,299 --> 00:46:30,040 to delete - from Cali which is 1251 00:46:28,390 --> 00:46:32,259 detrimental to Cali because you need 1252 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:34,630 Python for a lot of things and I was so 1253 00:46:32,260 --> 00:46:36,849 scared to ask my employer I you know 1254 00:46:34,630 --> 00:46:39,069 just it was so backwards and I think if 1255 00:46:36,849 --> 00:46:40,270 you go oh I've done this thing or you 1256 00:46:39,069 --> 00:46:42,040 know I've made this mistake can you help 1257 00:46:40,270 --> 00:46:43,780 me fix it or you know I don't understand 1258 00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,549 rather than you know sitting there and 1259 00:46:43,780 --> 00:46:47,559 letting the problem build because I know 1260 00:46:45,549 --> 00:46:49,450 for myself like I've spent many a night 1261 00:46:47,559 --> 00:46:51,760 crying because I'm anxious and worried 1262 00:46:49,450 --> 00:46:53,020 that actually you know employers you 1263 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,609 know they're nice people your teammates 1264 00:46:53,020 --> 00:46:56,079 are nice people so ya know asking 1265 00:46:54,609 --> 00:46:58,058 questions knows it no one wants to make 1266 00:46:56,079 --> 00:47:02,200 their colleagues like feel bad about 1267 00:46:58,059 --> 00:47:03,640 something superb off that point just one 1268 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,680 piece of advice that would be described 1269 00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:07,089 do something to support people so ever 1270 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:09,308 that's in your company or in the 1271 00:47:07,089 --> 00:47:11,259 community just finding people that that 1272 00:47:09,309 --> 00:47:13,950 care people that can help that's 1273 00:47:11,260 --> 00:47:16,990 technical or on the soft out on Sunday 1274 00:47:13,950 --> 00:47:18,160 and I think asking for mentorship as 1275 00:47:16,990 --> 00:47:19,598 well like you know a lot of people on 1276 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,460 Twitter offer it out and why does anyone 1277 00:47:19,599 --> 00:47:22,990 need help I'm good at this thing so you 1278 00:47:21,460 --> 00:47:23,859 know putting out their big motto you 1279 00:47:22,990 --> 00:47:25,328 know I'm really interested in learning 1280 00:47:23,859 --> 00:47:27,848 how to do web app test so that you know 1281 00:47:25,329 --> 00:47:29,819 talk to a pipe tester and you know get 1282 00:47:27,849 --> 00:47:32,740 some help that way if you need support 1283 00:47:29,819 --> 00:47:34,240 employers above all so depending on the 1284 00:47:32,740 --> 00:47:37,000 employer offer mentorships giving as 1285 00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:38,410 well so I've started her junior Pentax 1286 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:41,770 her but I'm quite keen to go down the 1287 00:47:38,410 --> 00:47:45,399 red team route so I'm working with one 1288 00:47:41,770 --> 00:47:47,290 of our good red teamers as as I kind of 1289 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,420 like he's like a mentor to kind of guide 1290 00:47:47,290 --> 00:47:52,690 me down that path to becoming a 1291 00:47:49,420 --> 00:47:54,069 readiness full-time okay on that point 1292 00:47:52,690 --> 00:47:56,230 of kind of things that companies offer 1293 00:47:54,069 --> 00:47:57,910 big companies as well as offer Mental 1294 00:47:56,230 --> 00:47:59,799 Health First Aid so if you ever find 1295 00:47:57,910 --> 00:48:01,690 yourself in that corner to do you have 1296 00:47:59,799 --> 00:48:02,800 to talk to you that's what was a great 1297 00:48:01,690 --> 00:48:05,410 vice and something 1298 00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,700 actually having your company that I'm 1299 00:48:05,410 --> 00:48:08,259 failing an employer is offered in the 1300 00:48:06,700 --> 00:48:10,000 community as well so we now have mental 1301 00:48:08,260 --> 00:48:11,890 health hackers which is now community 1302 00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:14,800 I've been healthy status we've ran a 1303 00:48:11,890 --> 00:48:16,120 workshop leads well so long ago and a 1304 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,790 bunch of us are on them at all those 1305 00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:21,190 days as well I think so we're gonna sum 1306 00:48:18,790 --> 00:48:26,650 this up as advice for people looking 1307 00:48:21,190 --> 00:48:27,850 into the other second story so I got a 1308 00:48:26,650 --> 00:48:29,140 call for action what is the most 1309 00:48:27,850 --> 00:48:31,690 important thing that students nowadays 1310 00:48:29,140 --> 00:48:32,770 should so I'd say that if you do have 1311 00:48:31,690 --> 00:48:34,810 that dream job 1312 00:48:32,770 --> 00:48:37,300 that's a gopher right if it is you're 1313 00:48:34,810 --> 00:48:38,980 drinking eventually we'll have wherever 1314 00:48:37,300 --> 00:48:41,350 not you have to take multiple stepping 1315 00:48:38,980 --> 00:48:44,380 stone jobs to get one eventually you'll 1316 00:48:41,350 --> 00:48:46,810 get and you'll be smart enough would be 1317 00:48:44,380 --> 00:48:48,780 the best you can be great you just have 1318 00:48:46,810 --> 00:48:56,650 to get I think you dig trying train 1319 00:48:48,780 --> 00:48:58,810 never stop learning with network I think 1320 00:48:56,650 --> 00:49:01,090 you know when you know all these people 1321 00:48:58,810 --> 00:49:03,250 it just is invaluable to the grander 1322 00:49:01,090 --> 00:49:05,460 scheme of everything like I've seen 1323 00:49:03,250 --> 00:49:08,920 people get jobs on Twitter and I'm like 1324 00:49:05,460 --> 00:49:10,150 and an important thing we thought is if 1325 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,590 you're finding a lot of people said when 1326 00:49:10,150 --> 00:49:12,700 I say or not working really important 1327 00:49:11,590 --> 00:49:14,650 they say like none of the opportunity to 1328 00:49:12,700 --> 00:49:16,270 network and like it's not behind you to 1329 00:49:14,650 --> 00:49:18,400 create those opportunities to network 1330 00:49:16,270 --> 00:49:20,170 might find something which other people 1331 00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,430 will be interested in and like make it 1332 00:49:20,170 --> 00:49:22,750 public that you're working on there's 1333 00:49:21,430 --> 00:49:24,940 not only as you discussed our new years 1334 00:49:22,750 --> 00:49:26,380 of great for building like it like like 1335 00:49:24,940 --> 00:49:28,090 like building your resume and also like 1336 00:49:26,380 --> 00:49:29,650 well attract attention and people will 1337 00:49:28,090 --> 00:49:32,920 be interesting what you say and not kind 1338 00:49:29,650 --> 00:49:35,890 of these some more Virginia so yeah yeah 1339 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:52,660 cool well the fun you very much for a 1340 00:49:35,890 --> 00:49:54,700 furnace in this we are we're looking to 1341 00:49:52,660 --> 00:49:57,220 try and solve some of the problems and 1342 00:49:54,700 --> 00:49:59,080 like juniors getting into the industry 1343 00:49:57,220 --> 00:50:01,029 because a lot of it it's quite a thick 1344 00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,960 and I law that's quite that's the scary 1345 00:50:01,030 --> 00:50:03,970 time in our lives 1346 00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,380 anyway I'm like it's certainly not made 1347 00:50:03,970 --> 00:50:09,250 easier by the pressure just for them us 1348 00:50:05,380 --> 00:50:12,990 by like by work so if you get us 1349 00:50:09,250 --> 00:50:12,990 following Twitter or given if you 1350 00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:34,060 [Music] 1351 00:50:37,340 --> 00:50:42,390 through the whole process 1352 00:50:39,170 --> 00:50:45,600 hiring people and seen table specs been 1353 00:50:42,390 --> 00:50:47,549 done sure you realize that people do 1354 00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:49,049 miss John specs are human asshole 1355 00:50:47,550 --> 00:50:51,090 they sometimes don't know all the 1356 00:50:49,050 --> 00:50:52,350 details so they yeah these buzzwords 1357 00:50:51,090 --> 00:50:55,920 like Oh 1358 00:50:52,350 --> 00:50:58,319 CSP and epic Ohioans are they put that 1359 00:50:55,920 --> 00:51:06,950 in that's on this bear claw my advice is 1360 00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:06,950 if you don't have it if you can do those 1361 00:51:15,170 --> 00:52:02,460 requirements on the job anyway how 1362 00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:05,610 important I find it I I don't take CDs 1363 00:52:02,460 --> 00:52:07,050 but I think it shows looking for a 1364 00:52:05,610 --> 00:52:09,540 positive of it I think it's like showing 1365 00:52:07,050 --> 00:52:11,670 previous work experience shows the match 1366 00:52:09,540 --> 00:52:13,380 the job sort of thing and my respects 1367 00:52:11,670 --> 00:52:14,850 it's good and then like in depending on 1368 00:52:13,380 --> 00:52:17,640 the job site director instance bar staff 1369 00:52:14,850 --> 00:52:19,500 work well show soft skills and so on and 1370 00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:21,900 so forth so I think it should be thought 1371 00:52:19,500 --> 00:52:23,010 of in the context those like the high 1372 00:52:21,900 --> 00:52:26,040 desert Hudson 1373 00:52:23,010 --> 00:52:31,140 in my application whether it's like wait 1374 00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:34,680 one minute but did you guys pay your 1375 00:52:31,140 --> 00:52:36,569 premium jobs like didn't know I tried to 1376 00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:39,120 do Plan C CB thing 1377 00:52:36,570 --> 00:52:40,740 make it cute alright mine's all over the 1378 00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,660 place but instead I took out things like 1379 00:52:40,740 --> 00:52:44,640 that and I did have a section for like 1380 00:52:42,660 --> 00:52:45,270 skills and I try and include them 1381 00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:47,910 elsewhere 1382 00:52:45,270 --> 00:52:49,740 I mean I do think you know like more 1383 00:52:47,910 --> 00:52:51,029 experience as you said like if you're 1384 00:52:49,740 --> 00:52:52,439 putting something like that it's it's 1385 00:52:51,030 --> 00:52:54,900 not gonna harm your application about 1386 00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:57,420 that matter especially like first job 1387 00:52:54,900 --> 00:52:58,590 kind of situation it's you know I would 1388 00:52:57,420 --> 00:53:00,510 say it would probably be better to have 1389 00:52:58,590 --> 00:53:01,890 that like if the battery on the 1390 00:53:00,510 --> 00:53:04,440 experience you have been working might 1391 00:53:01,890 --> 00:53:06,960 as well put it in like yeah like I let 1392 00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:08,970 you have this action then annoy so for 1393 00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:12,840 example like I think I pick my retail 1394 00:53:08,970 --> 00:53:14,310 jobs that I had on my CV because it felt 1395 00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:16,470 like I you said it shows people skills 1396 00:53:14,310 --> 00:53:18,630 that show soft skills so if you can deal 1397 00:53:16,470 --> 00:53:20,549 with the hard customer and retail it 1398 00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:22,890 shows those scale was a semi transparent 1399 00:53:20,550 --> 00:53:24,270 to deal with clients who maybe are a 1400 00:53:22,890 --> 00:53:27,120 hundred percent Compton all the 1401 00:53:24,270 --> 00:53:33,509 assignments shows people skills okay I 1402 00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:36,799 think we're different regressions drop a 1403 00:53:33,510 --> 00:53:39,949 so excited well bear on place 1404 00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:39,949 [Music]