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[Music]

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this is one that i was very excited to

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hear as well uh

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well

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it's a heuristic park uh why we can't we

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can fake it until we make it

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uh so our presenter iscomo is going to

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share on these topics

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why do we believe in fake news and what

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are new silos and more topics this

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lecture discusses the psychological

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reasons as seen from the perspective of

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a social engineer and we were talking

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beforehand he wanted to uh point out

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that you know if you're thinking of

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social engineering just in terms of of

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one area might come up in a

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security-focused con like this

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thinking just in terms of manipulation

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to say bypass a security protocol you're

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missing a lot of the apparatus of what

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he'll be talking about

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this talk

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explores further and focuses on ways

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that we respond neurologically hardwired

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uh to to details and uh and what some of

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the consequences are related to this

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topic so thank you very much

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thank you

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um so um first and foremost i might need

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to apologize up front because i might

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look a little fatigued

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and off-balance and that's not because

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it's day three and it's 11 a.m at a

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hacker camp because it is

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um

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kudos to you for being here at this time

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and the only advantage that we have is

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that it's not too hot yet in this stand

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so with me it's actually medical

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i'm suffering some post co-fit things so

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if you see me wobble around a little bit

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that's medical and it's okay i'm fine

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but it looks a bit funny sometimes

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that having said

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i can fully uh adhere to what you said

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wear a mask when asked protect each

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other be careful because coverage is not

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over

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so that being said a small introduction

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and this is very scary for me

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in my spare time i do some magic for

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children a little car tricks and a

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little

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making stuff disappear and reappear

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and the most scary thing you can do is

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perform for magicians because they know

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all your

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and they will call you out if it's not

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perfect and i have the same feeling here

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because it's all hackers you know you

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guys know about social engineering

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and probably because you're here you

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know a little bit more or at least

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you're interested in social engineering

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so i'll have to do my best today and

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i'll try this talk is meant to be a

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little longer than the 15 minutes that i

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got so i might skip some things but

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first by raise of hand how many people

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understand dutch quite well

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okay so there is some slides in there uh

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which are examples but they are in dutch

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so i'll be showing them um not taking

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too much time about them but they're

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funny to see so

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uh that's good

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a small introduction i'm a social

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engineer i have been for a lot of time a

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lot of years

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i've been pentesting companies

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professionally for 15.

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after that my face got you know on too

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many wanted posters and i had to stop

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doing that because well if you show up

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and people say hey that's the guy from

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last time that is

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problematic uh also for the rest of your

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team still conducting the test so i

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decided to go and teach and that's why i

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do at this moment

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so

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furthermore i'm a researcher

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this stuff is very interesting it stays

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very interesting so you read all about

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it and you you delve into it very deeply

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and i do stuff like this public speaking

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i attend conferences

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and of course we have this wonderful

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angry nerds podcast it's in dutch

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find it it's funny

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right um

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i have been sweating on this one for a

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long time because i needed to form a

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definition of social engineering and i

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started writing its techniques

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psychological techniques to uh get your

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password no that's not it it's uh to to

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make you do things that you actually

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don't want or

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cannot or no that's not it either and

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and it became a very very long and

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confusing definition like most job

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descriptions very long and confusing and

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half of it is not even true

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so i came up with this actually it's two

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words

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there's the word social which is any

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interaction you have with other people

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you can

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initiate or undergo it

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and you have engineering which is

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you have a plan you you design something

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and from that design you go and build a

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house a bridge anything

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so if you combine those two and you say

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okay i'm going to have a social

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interaction with anyone

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by a design to get to a certain goal

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that is what social engineering is it's

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nothing more it's nothing less this is a

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very clean definition that i could come

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up with just by translating those two

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words

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so what is it

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it is being clever with the truth

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and that you can do that by words just

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by playing lying we'll get to that later

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on

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you can you could uh indirectly lie

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by showing up in a nice suit

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just because you have an interview or

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something uh or you could um

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fuddle with the truth

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we'll get to that later as well

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or you could just

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set the scene

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you see it in bitcoin it's great bitcoin

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is great look at all these fancy offices

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and these great companies that do all

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kinds of wonderful stuff

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of course bitcoin is not a very good

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idea at least that's my opinion but

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it gets hyped a lot sorry for the guys

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having bitcoin i mean

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yes it's not a good time for bitcoin

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so who does it

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and this is uh actually a small nerd

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joke

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some of you will get it

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um criminals lawyers um sales people of

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course um but parents also

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we have a four-year-old

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and we have to socially engineer the

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hell out of her to get her to eat her

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fetchies

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and get to sleep in time

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but children can also social engineer

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very well especially ours

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she knows exactly how to look how to

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smile to get candy or

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um to stay up later or

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and and i don't know how many of you

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have kids

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respect

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so this is very hard you know they they

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come up with all kinds of crazy stuff to

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not have to go to sleep i need to pee i

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need to drink i need to do that's also

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social engineering you just adjust your

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normal behavior to to make it logical

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what you're doing so actually anyone

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everyone social engineers

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i am not at this moment because this is

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what i actually look like but at work i

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wear other stuff of course you don't go

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to work in the in the

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couch outfit let's say it like that

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so why do we do it this is still

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an introduction that you're probably

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familiar with

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you could go for influencing people

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and there is a subtle difference but a

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very important difference between

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influence and manipulation

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because i think manipulation is the bad

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kind and influence is good you can also

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you can influence

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people to get them in a certain track

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which is actually in their own interest

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um an example that i sometimes use is

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that when you go to the hospital and

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there's a doctor he comes up to you with

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his hands in his pockets he says oh yeah

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you have cancer that is weird right

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so these doctors they get trained

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to bring this news

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in a special way

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you have to surf it up

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so you won't

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black out if i go and tell you hey you

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have cancer i can be sure that anything

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i say after that will not

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not land you you just don't hear it

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and it's in your interest and in the

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interest of the doctor that you keep

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listening

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so he probably invites you over okay

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come sit down i have some coffee i

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looked at your test results

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this is what i found

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there's treatments but it is severe so

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we have to do this and this and this and

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this and this and you won't use the word

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cancer

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until it's absolutely necessary just to

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keep you

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listening

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and doctors know this so that's what

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they learn

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social engineering influencing

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also has a good side but when it gets to

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manipulation

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that's bad you don't want that

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so there are some techniques and i love

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listening to radio commercials uh i'm

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the only one i guess

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uh and it can be really funny because in

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in in the netherlands we have dot nl

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and that rhymes with snell you do dutch

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word for fast

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so they make all these rhymes

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that's not because it rhymes

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and it's not because they think they

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have a unique little slogan but it

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implies

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um

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urgency

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very subtly but it implies urgency oh we

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have only a few left

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that also implies urgency and scarcity

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so we we want it more

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so these are techniques that

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you see in marketing but you see them

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and a lot of other places

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too um the

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the last one that's uh

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one i learned very late in life um

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you get a free phone when you

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renew your subscription the phone is not

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free

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it's not

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you pay for it several times

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through the higher subscription rates

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that you accept it's it's not a free

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deal

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but these are tricks the actually they

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tell you that it's a free phone right

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so what's interesting is i would

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love to see a judge

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look at a case like that and say look i

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said it's a free phone

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it's not free i want a free phone so

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and try to

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there is actually a guy who does that

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with all kinds of commercials and he he

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wins those cases as well

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this is very funny um

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so we can play on emotions and this is

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where it gets interesting we know that

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fear is a big one insecurities lots of

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people are insecure

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and if you go and stress them um and

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later on we'll see why

285
00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,360
they will cooperate

286
00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:58,399
sooner

287
00:10:58,399 --> 00:11:00,720
than there is greed when i tell you that

288
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,959
i can double your money in two days of

289
00:11:02,959 --> 00:11:05,839
course you want to you wouldn't want it

290
00:11:05,839 --> 00:11:07,200
um

291
00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,600
but it's also a cue for you to start

292
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,440
thinking because when it sounds too good

293
00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,279
to be true it is

294
00:11:13,279 --> 00:11:15,680
um and then there is confidence of

295
00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:17,600
course we can get the other way around

296
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,200
and get people really confident about

297
00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:20,959
something and then

298
00:11:20,959 --> 00:11:23,200
take them along for a ride

299
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,360
and they fail miserably

300
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:28,640
because we are very good at getting them

301
00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,560
that's the confidence games right you

302
00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:33,120
see them on tv all the time

303
00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,600
and then the last one and that's the one

304
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,600
i'm talking about today

305
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,600
there is cognitive biases and there's

306
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:40,880
heuristics

307
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,279
and these are

308
00:11:43,279 --> 00:11:45,040
properties of your brain

309
00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:46,880
that we try to exploit

310
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:48,560
because what would be better for a

311
00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:50,320
social engineer

312
00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,279
to find a flaw in your brain

313
00:11:53,279 --> 00:11:55,839
play on that flaw and you don't have any

314
00:11:55,839 --> 00:11:57,680
defense against it

315
00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:00,079
i mean you will go for it

316
00:12:00,079 --> 00:12:03,040
even though you know you are scammed

317
00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:04,720
um it's like

318
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,639
it's impossible not to be startled

319
00:12:08,639 --> 00:12:10,720
think about it it's not you you can't

320
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,440
not be startled and we tested this with

321
00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,399
a a guy very highly educated guy very

322
00:12:16,399 --> 00:12:18,880
very smart and we told him okay we have

323
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,200
a haunted house here we build it

324
00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:23,680
and there is a few rooms so i will tell

325
00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:26,959
you from from any second when you go in

326
00:12:26,959 --> 00:12:29,040
uh after two seconds you feel a little

327
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,839
bump there is uh something on the floor

328
00:12:31,839 --> 00:12:34,079
the doorknob is slimy

329
00:12:34,079 --> 00:12:35,360
there is

330
00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,920
like fake spider webs and there is stuff

331
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,000
and there is wind blowing and an evil

332
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,079
sound and you hear this and you hear

333
00:12:42,079 --> 00:12:45,920
that and after exactly seven seconds

334
00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,079
a guy in a black suit on the floor will

335
00:12:48,079 --> 00:12:49,680
grab your ankles

336
00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:51,360
seven seconds

337
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,240
so just go in there and count one two

338
00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:55,360
three

339
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,839
and it was impossible for this guy not

340
00:12:57,839 --> 00:12:59,760
to be startled

341
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,639
even when we counted down

342
00:13:02,639 --> 00:13:04,320
through an intercom

343
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,560
we sat there and we said five four three

344
00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:09,360
two blah and it was he still was

345
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,839
it's impossible because this takes place

346
00:13:11,839 --> 00:13:14,000
in an other part of your brain

347
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,240
and if you can tap into that as a social

348
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,360
engineer you always win

349
00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:20,880
so this is where this talk gets

350
00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:22,399
interesting

351
00:13:22,399 --> 00:13:23,920
and of course there's identity fraud

352
00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,160
this is the first recorded case effort

353
00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,480
of identity fraud i just wanted to show

354
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:29,360
you that

355
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:30,320
um

356
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:31,200
okay

357
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,519
who's very fast at thinking but because

358
00:13:33,519 --> 00:13:35,120
we see patterns all the time right who's

359
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:36,959
very fast what's on the question mark

360
00:13:36,959 --> 00:13:39,040
who knows

361
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,880
just by raise of hand who can see it

362
00:13:43,519 --> 00:13:45,040
okay

363
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,360
any answers

364
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,360
25

365
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,959
okay any anything else on 25

366
00:13:54,959 --> 00:13:57,680
it's not true

367
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,079
it's not 25

368
00:14:00,079 --> 00:14:02,000
and this is because the fast part of the

369
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,480
brain there is two systems actually uh

370
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,480
daniel kahneman a very famous

371
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,399
psychologist a writer

372
00:14:08,399 --> 00:14:10,720
he talks about these two systems we have

373
00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:12,880
the fast and the slow system and the

374
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,199
slow system is the reasonable part i

375
00:14:15,199 --> 00:14:16,959
think okay look what is what is it what

376
00:14:16,959 --> 00:14:18,240
does it say

377
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:19,600
and what is this

378
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,839
and the fast part says 5 10 feet oh it's

379
00:14:21,839 --> 00:14:23,440
25

380
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,040
and you're done with it

381
00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,839
so we tap into that the fast part it is

382
00:14:27,839 --> 00:14:31,279
not 25 because the answer is right there

383
00:14:31,279 --> 00:14:34,079
it's five one is five so five is one

384
00:14:34,079 --> 00:14:35,040
right

385
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,760
that's what what it says

386
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:39,839
this is not a range it looks like a

387
00:14:39,839 --> 00:14:41,600
range

388
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,600
but it is not

389
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,519
and only if you tap into the slower part

390
00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:48,240
of your brain say look what what

391
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,040
oh yeah it's right there it's five

392
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,279
then you get the right answer so this is

393
00:14:53,279 --> 00:14:55,440
a perfect example for what we call

394
00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,160
heuristics and heuristics are shortcuts

395
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,519
in your brain why do we have these

396
00:15:04,959 --> 00:15:08,479
it does not it says so

397
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:11,519
oh

398
00:15:11,519 --> 00:15:13,360
of course mathematically this is

399
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:14,720
incorrect

400
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:15,519
true

401
00:15:15,519 --> 00:15:18,720
true but for this example it is um

402
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,320
because you know

403
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,160
but okay i should have i should have

404
00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,560
said one x or something

405
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,199
so i could move it away with it you're

406
00:15:27,199 --> 00:15:29,040
right very very sure

407
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,680
okay so why do we do this uh the brain

408
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,399
has uh an energy saver

409
00:15:34,399 --> 00:15:37,120
and luckily lucky for us because if your

410
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,839
brain would be on all the time and in in

411
00:15:39,839 --> 00:15:42,480
thinking mode it would consume about a

412
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,720
quarter of your energy

413
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,440
and for something that has a weight of

414
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,440
only two percent of your whole body

415
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,279
using a quarter of your energy that's a

416
00:15:51,279 --> 00:15:52,160
lot

417
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,199
so your brain taught itself to go into

418
00:15:55,199 --> 00:15:56,720
saving mode

419
00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:58,399
and saving mode is very easy because we

420
00:15:58,399 --> 00:16:00,399
have all these heuristics we can we see

421
00:16:00,399 --> 00:16:01,920
a range you say oh yeah you see that

422
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,160
that's 25. i don't have to go and

423
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,000
calculate i don't have to go and check i

424
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,639
think i see it it's right there i see a

425
00:16:08,639 --> 00:16:09,759
pattern

426
00:16:09,759 --> 00:16:11,839
and this is what the brain does

427
00:16:11,839 --> 00:16:14,959
also the brain has if you they call it

428
00:16:14,959 --> 00:16:16,639
neuroplasticity

429
00:16:16,639 --> 00:16:19,279
it forms new

430
00:16:19,279 --> 00:16:20,560
paths

431
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,120
between your neurons and

432
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,519
when you do that often enough

433
00:16:25,519 --> 00:16:27,680
they become common sense

434
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,079
later on we we go into

435
00:16:30,079 --> 00:16:32,639
uh the the guys that deny

436
00:16:32,639 --> 00:16:34,800
co-fit and stuff like that

437
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,720
that has a reason

438
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,199
no one is that stupid right

439
00:16:39,199 --> 00:16:40,720
i i hope

440
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:41,839
okay

441
00:16:41,839 --> 00:16:43,920
so there's a few of those and some of

442
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:45,519
them are very funny

443
00:16:45,519 --> 00:16:47,920
and some of them are not

444
00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:49,920
actually they're all not but some are

445
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:51,759
you can laugh about them the expert

446
00:16:51,759 --> 00:16:54,000
heuristic

447
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,480
if there is an expert and we we know

448
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,199
that he is or she is then we believe

449
00:16:59,199 --> 00:17:01,040
if the doctor tells me that something is

450
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:05,599
wrong i believe him um if my

451
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:07,520
garage tells me there's something wrong

452
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,400
with my car i

453
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,280
wrong wrong example maybe but

454
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:14,640
doctors

455
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,959
normally you trust so there's the

456
00:17:16,959 --> 00:17:18,720
consistency heuristic

457
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,720
uh it's all about um

458
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,799
when you see something often enough

459
00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:24,000
you see it there and you see it there

460
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:25,359
and you see it there and there's several

461
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,280
sources and they all say the same well

462
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:28,880
it should be true right

463
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:30,720
that's the consistent consistency

464
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,720
heuristic then there's a bandwagon

465
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,559
heuristic and that's everybody does it

466
00:17:36,559 --> 00:17:41,039
who of you has what's up on their phone

467
00:17:41,039 --> 00:17:42,640
on a hacker camp

468
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:44,080
are you kidding

469
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,120
okay who is signal and who if you have

470
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:49,200
trouble convincing their family and

471
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:50,320
friends

472
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,640
to leave what's up alone

473
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:54,640
almost everyone right and what's the

474
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,880
argument you always get

475
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,039
yeah they all have it

476
00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:00,960
i won't miss out because if i don't have

477
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,720
whatsapp i can't message all my friends

478
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,559
so and i have this discussion with my

479
00:18:06,559 --> 00:18:08,559
dad he's yeah all my friends are on

480
00:18:08,559 --> 00:18:10,400
what's up i said you have only two

481
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:11,919
friends left

482
00:18:11,919 --> 00:18:13,440
the rest is dead

483
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,919
um he doesn't like that argument but

484
00:18:15,919 --> 00:18:17,200
it's true

485
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,200
so there's no reason for him to be on

486
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:20,640
signal

487
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,480
but i couldn't win that argument as a

488
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,400
social engineer that's very frustrating

489
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:25,360
so i

490
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:27,200
found another way to win it

491
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,360
even though his argument was

492
00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:32,080
valid in his eyes i said okay so you

493
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:33,360
don't want any pictures of your

494
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:35,600
grandchild

495
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,640
now he has single that's very good

496
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,480
that's the bandwagon heuristic

497
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,679
persuasive intent is actually refers

498
00:18:43,679 --> 00:18:45,679
i have this very strongly if i see a

499
00:18:45,679 --> 00:18:47,840
salesman something with a plastic smile

500
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:48,799
and hey

501
00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:49,840
hello

502
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:51,840
i recognize all these techniques and i

503
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:53,760
my my the hairs in the back of my neck

504
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:55,679
they just stand up and i'm like okay

505
00:18:55,679 --> 00:18:57,360
 off

506
00:18:57,360 --> 00:18:58,400
that's the

507
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,760
persuasive and time heuristic um and on

508
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,919
the expectancy violation heuristic

509
00:19:03,919 --> 00:19:06,080
that's uh i have a slightly illustrated

510
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,320
that's very funny but it's in dutch so

511
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,200
this is the expert heuristic

512
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,120
in the old days this was the expert he

513
00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:15,520
was on a square in the market and he was

514
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,160
there and this was the doctor right

515
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,240
he said oh yeah you're sick we'll just

516
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,320
let some blood out because your blood is

517
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:24,799
probably sick we let something out and

518
00:19:24,799 --> 00:19:27,280
you'll be fine and take this

519
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,919
it's only four pieces of gold but it

520
00:19:29,919 --> 00:19:32,640
helps against everything

521
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,720
sounds a bit like the guy that comes

522
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,039
over to your office and said look i have

523
00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:39,039
the problem to your network solutions

524
00:19:39,039 --> 00:19:40,640
right all your network

525
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:42,559
problems right i said it right i have

526
00:19:42,559 --> 00:19:43,840
the problem to all your network

527
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:45,360
solutions

528
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:47,280
but this guy has a nice silk tie and he

529
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,120
comes over to you and says look if you

530
00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:51,520
buy this you have no further problems

531
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,120
this is a super modern firewall

532
00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:58,720
and it's smart and it has blockchain

533
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,360
recognize this

534
00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:02,559
these guys

535
00:20:02,559 --> 00:20:05,200
but it's the same as this guy

536
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,960
so i have some experts here um

537
00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,679
any opinions who is the real expert

538
00:20:11,679 --> 00:20:13,440
we have uh this guy from a dutch

539
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,840
commercial long time ago bye from the

540
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:17,679
ain't obviously saying

541
00:20:17,679 --> 00:20:18,880
um

542
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,440
expert

543
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:22,400
no

544
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,039
okay then um

545
00:20:25,039 --> 00:20:26,799
person b

546
00:20:26,799 --> 00:20:28,480
the guy from twitter

547
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:29,520
um

548
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,000
expert

549
00:20:32,159 --> 00:20:33,200
name

550
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,440
okay see that's a guy that's an actor

551
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,840
with a white coat

552
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,559
pretending to be a dentist no

553
00:20:40,559 --> 00:20:44,320
remember that guy by with d remember him

554
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,480
he was hilarious

555
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,559
that was great yeah i mean war is never

556
00:20:48,559 --> 00:20:50,640
funny but this guy was he should have

557
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,559
had a red nose

558
00:20:52,559 --> 00:20:54,720
there are no american tanks in iraq and

559
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,679
you saw them pass by behind him

560
00:20:57,679 --> 00:21:00,400
it was hilarious so um

561
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:01,679
then

562
00:21:01,679 --> 00:21:04,720
he's the weather guy dutch weather guy

563
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,200
expert

564
00:21:07,679 --> 00:21:10,000
yeah maybe okay

565
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,220
let's continue yomanda remember yomanda

566
00:21:14,220 --> 00:21:17,309
[Music]

567
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:19,600
you're all healed

568
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:20,880
if only

569
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,919
um and then we have who's that

570
00:21:23,919 --> 00:21:25,919
g

571
00:21:25,919 --> 00:21:27,679
i don't think

572
00:21:27,679 --> 00:21:30,320
anyone at a hacker congrats

573
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,960
would have heard of this woman

574
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,240
ryan very broke expert

575
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,720
well maybe an expert social engineer we

576
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:39,760
don't know

577
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,080
but the true expert is her team star

578
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,640
weather guy he has two masters and five

579
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,240
bachelors

580
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,360
in all kinds of climate studies he knows

581
00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:52,080
a lot about his work

582
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,159
and the fact that he comes on tv and

583
00:21:54,159 --> 00:21:56,080
very casually tells you that the sun's

584
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,640
gonna shine tomorrow doesn't mean that

585
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,559
he is

586
00:22:00,559 --> 00:22:03,600
not very very very smart like because he

587
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:04,960
is

588
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,440
okay and then context is also very

589
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:08,799
important

590
00:22:08,799 --> 00:22:12,440
i know a lot of pcs

591
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,039
cybers i know a lot of cybers you all do

592
00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:17,360
know a lot of cybers but don't let me do

593
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:19,600
that

594
00:22:19,919 --> 00:22:21,520
because that will not

595
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,679
play out well

596
00:22:23,679 --> 00:22:25,039
so then there's the consistency

597
00:22:25,039 --> 00:22:26,880
heuristic i told you about this already

598
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,840
is about fake news and when you read it

599
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:31,840
over and over and over and over again

600
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,799
it might become true for you

601
00:22:34,799 --> 00:22:38,240
the danger is that we form bubbles

602
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,559
the algorithms of facebook twitter and

603
00:22:40,559 --> 00:22:42,640
all the other stuff there

604
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:43,760
they

605
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,919
are meant for only one thing to keep you

606
00:22:45,919 --> 00:22:47,280
on their side

607
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,080
to keep you watching reading looking

608
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,000
and they can do that by only one way and

609
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,000
that's by showing you more of what you

610
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,159
already like

611
00:22:56,159 --> 00:22:58,880
so they choose for you what news you get

612
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,360
to see and you don't get to see any

613
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:03,200
contradictory news because you don't

614
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,200
like that and you might just close your

615
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:06,320
browser

616
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:10,000
so they show you more of the same

617
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,080
only they don't check

618
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,440
if it's true what they show you

619
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,360
bandwagon we told we talked about this

620
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:18,960
persuasive attempt i like the

621
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,280
illustration on this one

622
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,159
um and this is for the dutch guys here

623
00:23:24,159 --> 00:23:26,559
uh i'll just give you a second to just

624
00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:28,559
to read them all

625
00:23:28,559 --> 00:23:31,120
expectancy violation has to do with

626
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:34,000
you you have an expectancy in this in

627
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,679
this case it's the city and you might

628
00:23:37,679 --> 00:23:40,240
think that guys working for the city

629
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:41,919
doing all kinds of official business

630
00:23:41,919 --> 00:23:44,480
they know what they're doing right

631
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,799
what they don't

632
00:23:46,799 --> 00:23:48,840
at least not always and these are

633
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,080
examples of really really gross spelling

634
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,919
mistakes very funny ones as well

635
00:23:55,919 --> 00:23:57,520
i mean

636
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,039
this this

637
00:23:59,039 --> 00:24:00,559
here in

638
00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:02,640
this should mean goes for the entire

639
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,320
street

640
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:05,840
but the way they spelled it means

641
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,880
there's money for the entire street

642
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,120
so it's maybe they they won this

643
00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:12,799
postcard low today you know the truck

644
00:24:12,799 --> 00:24:15,520
comes in that that could be true but

645
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,360
why could a sign up

646
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:19,679
this is weird so

647
00:24:19,679 --> 00:24:21,679
i like the expect to see violation bias

648
00:24:21,679 --> 00:24:24,480
it's very nice

649
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,320
sometimes people make mistakes and this

650
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,279
is a pretty rough story

651
00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:31,840
we have the dutch ministry of defense

652
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,760
and i can speak about it some because

653
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:35,919
it's a long time ago and it's fixed in

654
00:24:35,919 --> 00:24:38,400
the meantime but but this is the website

655
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,640
of miroslav mindev

656
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,679
and the domain is mindef.nl

657
00:24:43,679 --> 00:24:46,720
but that is also with one different one

658
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,240
little letter difference it's the

659
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,880
ministry of defense.nl

660
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,360
so the guy that ran this domain

661
00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:55,440
got all kinds of emails for the dutch

662
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,440
ministry of defense because people made

663
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,440
a little spelling mistake

664
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,440
and there's those were

665
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,080
not funny these males

666
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,640
so when people make mistakes

667
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,960
even tiny ones it can have large

668
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,679
consequences and if we can get people to

669
00:25:11,679 --> 00:25:12,799
make these

670
00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:15,039
mistakes on based on of the heuristics

671
00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:16,960
we already know

672
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,360
we just invite you to make the mistake

673
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:21,440
like like the little table there it was

674
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,679
not 25 but it's very easy to go for it

675
00:25:25,679 --> 00:25:29,440
and you're in trouble right so truth

676
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,279
what is true

677
00:25:31,279 --> 00:25:33,279
and this is a very hot discussion at

678
00:25:33,279 --> 00:25:35,039
this moment

679
00:25:35,039 --> 00:25:38,159
some things seem true some things

680
00:25:38,159 --> 00:25:39,840
feel true it's it has to do with

681
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,000
experience and what you can see and what

682
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,000
you can hear and what you can touch and

683
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:45,360
but is it

684
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:47,520
when i do a car trick or trick with some

685
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,840
ropes with turnout turn out to be the

686
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,080
same length or they don't

687
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,799
people see it happen but what you see is

688
00:25:54,799 --> 00:25:56,080
not what's happening and what's

689
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:57,600
happening is not what you see that's the

690
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,880
definition of an illusion

691
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,760
and that having said truth is very very

692
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:04,720
fluid

693
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,080
indeed

694
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,960
so in the us they have this very very

695
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,760
cool oath when you go before a judge

696
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,120
guys know that

697
00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:15,440
you hear it on tv all the time right

698
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,520
do you solemnly swear to tell the truth

699
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,200
the whole truth and nothing but the

700
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,840
truth i think this is genius

701
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,480
because what you say is

702
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,799
okay do you swear to tell the truth

703
00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:29,679
that covers lies of commission

704
00:26:29,679 --> 00:26:31,520
plain out lies

705
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:35,120
you just tell something that's not true

706
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:37,039
the other one the whole truth covers

707
00:26:37,039 --> 00:26:39,039
lives of omission

708
00:26:39,039 --> 00:26:41,840
stuff you leave out

709
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,320
and it's also very easy to do

710
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,400
yeah i went to bolivia on a business

711
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:47,520
trip

712
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,120
i don't have to tell people that i have

713
00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:51,039
a mistress there

714
00:26:51,039 --> 00:26:53,200
it was actually a business trip

715
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,360
sorry dear um

716
00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:58,559
not true by the way um and nothing but

717
00:26:58,559 --> 00:27:01,520
the truth is lies of influence and they

718
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,279
are the tricky ones

719
00:27:03,279 --> 00:27:04,559
because

720
00:27:04,559 --> 00:27:06,480
how many times have you seen this in

721
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,600
courtroom dramas that a suspect does not

722
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,279
really answer the question but

723
00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:13,679
look i'm a respectable guy i would never

724
00:27:13,679 --> 00:27:16,080
do something like that i'm

725
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,120
a bible salesman and i'm volunteering at

726
00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:21,200
the school and i'm doing this something

727
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,600
he didn't answer the question

728
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,559
he's trying to get way around

729
00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:29,200
and these are lies of influence just by

730
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:30,960
getting yourself into what we call the

731
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,120
halo effect being

732
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:34,720
a true angel

733
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,600
become an angel by the way that's very

734
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,039
they need angels um but getting yourself

735
00:27:41,039 --> 00:27:42,080
on that

736
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,960
level of look

737
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,480
i i would never

738
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:47,520
you know

739
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,600
it's also lying but it's very very

740
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,120
subtle and it's very hard to catch

741
00:27:54,399 --> 00:27:57,600
and this is sometimes it's it's

742
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:58,559
um

743
00:27:58,559 --> 00:28:00,880
how do you say that politely

744
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,799
sometimes it's by design and sometimes

745
00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:04,720
it's just plain stupid

746
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,640
umptenades

747
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,799
it's the language that civil servants

748
00:28:08,799 --> 00:28:10,399
tend to use

749
00:28:10,399 --> 00:28:12,480
i see a lot of memos

750
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,559
in my line of work

751
00:28:14,559 --> 00:28:16,640
and i have to take a lot of time to

752
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,919
decipher what they really say

753
00:28:19,919 --> 00:28:22,480
and for dutch speaking these are and i

754
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,480
have permission to show these

755
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:25,600
these are

756
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,080
actually what's up messages

757
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,279
of um students

758
00:28:31,279 --> 00:28:33,760
working with the dutch government um

759
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,360
trainees

760
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:37,360
talking to each other about what they're

761
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:38,960
going to do next

762
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,159
and if you read their whatsapps

763
00:28:42,159 --> 00:28:44,240
holy that's not going to be funny

764
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,000
if this guy really gets

765
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,320
to be a civil servant or this guy

766
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,720
that is bad

767
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,640
but we do that ourselves because this

768
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,640
is part of the hampton out of it

769
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,159
it's the rules and regulations that

770
00:29:02,159 --> 00:29:04,399
dictate what a civil servant should and

771
00:29:04,399 --> 00:29:06,000
should not do

772
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,960
look how that is written

773
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,200
could you expect for for any normal

774
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,120
person to know what just says exactly

775
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,200
with all the ins and outs you need a

776
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:18,880
lawyer for that

777
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,880
you can't do that

778
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:22,640
and that causes a lot of mistakes as

779
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,000
well

780
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,039
and then this is a favorite of mine

781
00:29:27,039 --> 00:29:30,559
it has been decided

782
00:29:30,559 --> 00:29:32,880
light on the forum is in dutch i i don't

783
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,640
really know the english translation for

784
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,159
light on the forum because i'm not a

785
00:29:36,159 --> 00:29:40,600
grammar student but um

786
00:29:40,799 --> 00:29:42,799
passive stance

787
00:29:42,799 --> 00:29:46,000
thanks uh passive then so you say well

788
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,480
it has been decided

789
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,600
and so what has been decided by who when

790
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,640
uh what were the measures uh what what

791
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,799
were you guys talking about anyway what

792
00:29:56,799 --> 00:29:59,200
meeting was that and who decided and was

793
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,840
he even competent to do that or

794
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,919
was he in charge

795
00:30:05,919 --> 00:30:07,120
anyway

796
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,440
no it has been decided you know we uh we

797
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,520
talked about it and uh

798
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,679
so just be careful when you see this in

799
00:30:13,679 --> 00:30:16,480
a memo always try to get things very

800
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,799
clear and my colleagues hate me for it

801
00:30:18,799 --> 00:30:21,440
because i always return their memos so i

802
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,440
don't know i i don't understand just be

803
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,760
clear and short

804
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,120
if you can't put it on the back of a

805
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,679
coaster i won't read it

806
00:30:29,679 --> 00:30:32,640
they hate me for that

807
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,520
then there's critical thinking

808
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,840
this is a problem we have a lot these

809
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,840
days but i saw it on the internet so it

810
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:40,960
must be true

811
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,880
i saw it a lot of times on the internet

812
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,600
oh that's a consistency heuristic right

813
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,360
but if you're in a certain bubble and

814
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,720
things get filtered out

815
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,720
you don't know what gets left out of

816
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,320
your bubble

817
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,640
it's a very dangerous thing to do

818
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,240
anyone can learn to be a critical

819
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,320
thinker but no one seems to be

820
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,399
or do so because it's inconvenient you

821
00:31:02,399 --> 00:31:04,480
need your system too the slow system for

822
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:05,519
that

823
00:31:05,519 --> 00:31:08,000
and that takes a lot of energy

824
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,240
which we don't always have

825
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,320
not the time not the energy so that's a

826
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:13,360
problem

827
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,639
there is a drug to help you

828
00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:19,039
so you could take this if any of this

829
00:31:19,039 --> 00:31:21,120
comes your way and this is a grain of

830
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,120
salt

831
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:23,919
so

832
00:31:23,919 --> 00:31:26,320
think about that when you hear some

833
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,159
ravel and it comes

834
00:31:28,159 --> 00:31:29,919
over you like a thunderstorm take this

835
00:31:29,919 --> 00:31:30,840
grain of

836
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,919
salt take a step back go and use system

837
00:31:33,919 --> 00:31:34,799
two

838
00:31:34,799 --> 00:31:36,799
and if you're too fatigued or pressed

839
00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:39,760
for time or whatever just don't do it

840
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,519
so look i have to look at this more

841
00:31:41,519 --> 00:31:44,080
closely i'll get back to you

842
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,360
don't let them suck you into it

843
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,679
new silos are very dangerous this is

844
00:31:49,679 --> 00:31:50,880
what

845
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,039
this is where the consistency heuristic

846
00:31:53,039 --> 00:31:54,320
lives

847
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,799
i told you about this the

848
00:31:56,799 --> 00:31:58,799
the facebooks and the twitters and

849
00:31:58,799 --> 00:32:00,720
instagrams they they want you to stay on

850
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,360
their page so they will all always tell

851
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,600
you what you want to hear not what you

852
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,600
should hear

853
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,760
and they tell all your friends too and

854
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,080
they select friends for you

855
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:13,360
to see

856
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,519
in that same bubble

857
00:32:15,519 --> 00:32:18,559
as very dangerous um we tried this with

858
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:21,200
several accounts we made new accounts

859
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,559
and uh we posted just one remark on

860
00:32:24,559 --> 00:32:27,039
twitter at one account and the other and

861
00:32:27,039 --> 00:32:28,799
one was um

862
00:32:28,799 --> 00:32:30,320
for trump and the other was against

863
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,760
trump and we left the accounts alone

864
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,240
and after a while we we looked at their

865
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,960
separate timelines that was horrifying

866
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,640
the differences that you see and the

867
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,480
truth

868
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,120
truth in in quotation marks that they

869
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,200
try to tell you

870
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,519
because actually the one that was quite

871
00:32:49,519 --> 00:32:51,039
positive about trump

872
00:32:51,039 --> 00:32:52,880
got a love this is true and this is true

873
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,320
and this is true and trump this great

874
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,480
guy and you would almost believe it and

875
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,279
the other one was exactly the opposite

876
00:32:59,279 --> 00:33:02,720
it can't both be true right

877
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,720
this guy says it very well if you want

878
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,320
to take a picture of the screen this is

879
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,320
this is the picture you should take

880
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:09,200
um

881
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,600
he says this these bubbles you don't get

882
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,320
to decide what gets in or out

883
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,399
and you don't know what gets left out

884
00:33:16,399 --> 00:33:20,320
this is a very very strong remark

885
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,240
and always be aware of this thanks

886
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:24,960
so

887
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,200
you have an opinion right

888
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,120
that's great

889
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:30,399
um

890
00:33:30,399 --> 00:33:32,480
these guys

891
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,159
if you know dutch politics these are the

892
00:33:36,159 --> 00:33:38,799
most left guy and most right guy

893
00:33:38,799 --> 00:33:40,320
and they try to make you believe that

894
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,279
there is such a thing as left and right

895
00:33:43,279 --> 00:33:46,000
which there is obviously not

896
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,880
i mean you can be all for climate

897
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:50,799
and we have to save the climate and i

898
00:33:50,799 --> 00:33:54,080
think so too but you can't be against a

899
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,320
lot of other things that we also need to

900
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,760
just only save the climate and only give

901
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,760
money to poor people and be very very

902
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,200
very left and

903
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,440
that it's ridiculous you have to keep

904
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,840
thinking about each separate problem and

905
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,280
and try to

906
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:10,000
get

907
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,599
to the bottom of it

908
00:34:11,599 --> 00:34:14,480
a lot of people don't get that um but

909
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,760
i've looked into this and daniel offman

910
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:18,839
has made a

911
00:34:18,839 --> 00:34:21,679
diagram and i thought i could use that

912
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:24,000
to to illustrate what i mean

913
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,320
so if you take a core quality let's say

914
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:27,918
we have mobility

915
00:34:27,918 --> 00:34:30,000
uh you want to get from here to there

916
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,079
and maybe you work a long way from home

917
00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:35,599
so you need a car right but a car

918
00:34:35,599 --> 00:34:37,119
comes with problems

919
00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:39,359
if it's too much we have pollution we

920
00:34:39,359 --> 00:34:41,280
have traffic jams we have all these

921
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,599
things

922
00:34:45,199 --> 00:34:47,599
so we need to mitigate we need to find

923
00:34:47,599 --> 00:34:49,280
some ways

924
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,280
and that could be anything we could make

925
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,918
bigger or better roads or more roads or

926
00:34:53,918 --> 00:34:57,920
less cars or try to spread uh traffic

927
00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,839
over a period of time or there's a lot

928
00:34:59,839 --> 00:35:01,119
of things we could talk about to

929
00:35:01,119 --> 00:35:03,520
mitigate the problem that arises from

930
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:04,960
mobility

931
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,640
but if you

932
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,160
go too much the other way

933
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,640
you get to be amsterdam

934
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,760
ban all combustion engines

935
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,160
sucks by the way if you have a car don't

936
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:18,700
go there

937
00:35:18,700 --> 00:35:19,920
[Music]

938
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:20,960
so

939
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,560
um that's the allergy don't go there

940
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,400
and what we see is when you have a

941
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,800
debate about things

942
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,760
best do it in the green zone

943
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,000
this is what we actually want

944
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,400
we we recognize the problems

945
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,079
and we have a challenge and let's talk

946
00:35:38,079 --> 00:35:39,680
about this

947
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,680
what you see in debate

948
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,160
in politics

949
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,839
this guy is going nuts about that

950
00:35:47,839 --> 00:35:51,200
because it's very strong right burn all

951
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,680
combustion engines

952
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,680
yeah

953
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,920
good for you right but it's not a

954
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,079
discussion you should want to see

955
00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:02,240
it should be in the green zone

956
00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:04,240
so and and then there is of course uh

957
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:06,960
the dunning-kruger effect heard about it

958
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,280
i love the dunning-kruger effect

959
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,640
um it's the theory is that the less you

960
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,560
know about something the more you feel

961
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,800
like knowing about it

962
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,599
so when i bought a computer in 1983

963
00:36:19,599 --> 00:36:22,400
uh i i learned some basic and i did some

964
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,880
which stuff i i'm the biggest expert in

965
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,359
street in fact i was because i was the

966
00:36:27,359 --> 00:36:29,760
only computer user in the street but

967
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,079
you get a lot of confidence from that

968
00:36:32,079 --> 00:36:34,160
and of course you do

969
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:35,920
when you grow into that profession you

970
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,160
you think okay now i do i know a lot

971
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:39,839
about it and you come here and you think

972
00:36:39,839 --> 00:36:41,280
i don't know

973
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:42,400
so that's

974
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,960
that's um so probably when you think

975
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,880
that you are somewhere here on the slope

976
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,640
of enlightenment

977
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,000
but everyone

978
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,839
seems to start at the peak of my mount

979
00:36:52,839 --> 00:36:55,440
stupid your confidence is really high

980
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,000
but your knowledge is not

981
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,160
and i love this diagram it's my favorite

982
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,000
slide of the entire deck

983
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,680
so then there is influence by proxy

984
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,520
and centric hates me for leaving this in

985
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,200
they asked me now several times to get

986
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,839
their logo the out of there but

987
00:37:13,839 --> 00:37:15,760
we know we all know what influenced by

988
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,920
proxy is by now right

989
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,240
it's leon from rybrook against herrera

990
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:21,760
sandring

991
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,760
he is whispering in his ears isolating

992
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,040
him from the rest of the world because

993
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,200
this guy is not stupid

994
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,520
he's a millionaire

995
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,320
he knows what he's doing the only reason

996
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,400
he believes in her is that he doesn't

997
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,000
get any other information he's in a

998
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:37,599
bubble

999
00:37:37,599 --> 00:37:39,760
so that's a problem

1000
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,560
and influenced by proxy he is the boss

1001
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,240
of all these companies but she runs them

1002
00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:49,119
it's very dangerous

1003
00:37:49,119 --> 00:37:52,240
this i'll leave for now

1004
00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:54,320
this is why i meant with brevity when i

1005
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,640
get a very long memo and it's very

1006
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,280
elaborate and there is a lot of

1007
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,000
passive tense thanks um

1008
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,240
i just sent it back so i i don't get

1009
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:05,680
what you're saying here it's too long to

1010
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:06,480
read

1011
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,320
it's too complicated for me i don't get

1012
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:08,960
it

1013
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,720
and i'll just play stupid

1014
00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:11,599
so

1015
00:38:11,599 --> 00:38:14,720
tell them explain me like i'm five

1016
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:16,480
and you gotta love the discussion about

1017
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,000
that and say okay but you're not five

1018
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,079
years old you went to university yes i

1019
00:38:20,079 --> 00:38:23,040
know but explain like i'm five

1020
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,160
because it prevents you from lying

1021
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,400
and hiding it

1022
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,720
so and and that's actually very hard to

1023
00:38:30,720 --> 00:38:32,720
get to the point so that's why this

1024
00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:34,960
phrase is very nice i'm sorry i had to

1025
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:36,480
write such a long letter but i didn't

1026
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,800
have time to write a short one

1027
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,800
because you have to think about that

1028
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,200
get to the point

1029
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:44,800
okay fishing i'll leave out because

1030
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,599
everyone here knows about fishing right

1031
00:38:47,599 --> 00:38:49,839
this is a very nice tweet these are some

1032
00:38:49,839 --> 00:38:51,680
random shots that i collected here and

1033
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,119
there

1034
00:38:53,119 --> 00:38:55,200
professor fooling you

1035
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:56,480
he is

1036
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,160
a security philosopher actually it's me

1037
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:01,760
and he said well criminals they have a

1038
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,440
new way to make you pay a lot of money

1039
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:04,560
for

1040
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,200
you know anything so um

1041
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,599
for only 3 500 i'll tell you all about

1042
00:39:09,599 --> 00:39:11,359
it

1043
00:39:11,359 --> 00:39:13,520
of course this is funny right

1044
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,000
but not why you think it is

1045
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:17,839
it's not because i might be the criminal

1046
00:39:17,839 --> 00:39:20,320
and i get to the 35 just by saying okay

1047
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,000
i'll tell you the secret

1048
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,760
that's not what it is

1049
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:25,440
because in

1050
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,280
the boardrooms

1051
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,680
we cut swindled a lot

1052
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,720
and if you get a consultant for 3500 and

1053
00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:34,640
he says look

1054
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,920
that is 1.6 million not well spent i

1055
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:39,359
wouldn't do that

1056
00:39:39,359 --> 00:39:42,079
this money was spent right

1057
00:39:42,079 --> 00:39:45,119
they save you from a lot of trouble

1058
00:39:45,119 --> 00:39:47,280
so nothing is really what it seems this

1059
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,599
seems to be a bad idea but it's not not

1060
00:39:49,599 --> 00:39:52,640
in every case so just give me the 35 and

1061
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,839
that's good

1062
00:39:54,839 --> 00:39:57,920
um here are some countermeasures most of

1063
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,320
them i already touched ask for clarity

1064
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:01,920
and details

1065
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,000
and just tell them it's too long too

1066
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,800
long i didn't read it's too complicated

1067
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:08,560
make it simple make simple statements i

1068
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,680
want to know what you're actually saying

1069
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,880
go to your system too think about it

1070
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,000
don't let yourself get pressed into time

1071
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,040
your brain consists of three parts

1072
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,560
ten minutes thanks

1073
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:23,599
we have

1074
00:40:23,599 --> 00:40:26,400
the frontal lobe prefrontal cortex this

1075
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:27,680
is your this is where the thinking

1076
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,640
happens this is what most of us do here

1077
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:31,680
um

1078
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,520
then there's the middle part which is

1079
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,480
mostly medical there is all kinds of

1080
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,720
subsystems there hormones drugs

1081
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:42,560
there's all kinds of stuff going on

1082
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:43,680
there

1083
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:45,760
and then there is the reptilian brain

1084
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,839
and this is the link to jurassic park

1085
00:40:47,839 --> 00:40:50,800
the dinosaur at front

1086
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,040
which is

1087
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,440
actually the boss of them all

1088
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,880
and this is where fear flight fight all

1089
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,359
those responses come from so if you try

1090
00:41:01,359 --> 00:41:03,200
to tap in this here

1091
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,920
all the other brain parts will be silent

1092
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:07,839
or at least distorted enough not to

1093
00:41:07,839 --> 00:41:10,240
function very well

1094
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:12,079
if you tap into this one

1095
00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:14,640
the emotional bit hormones that's why

1096
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:16,960
men do stupid things

1097
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,040
you see nice lady and think that's right

1098
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,520
and this stops working

1099
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,480
that's why ladies that's why we do that

1100
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:25,680
so

1101
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,599
if you want them to piss off tap in the

1102
00:41:27,599 --> 00:41:29,680
other one because the hierarchy is from

1103
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,560
here to here this is the boss

1104
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,880
scare them

1105
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,240
propose that's very scary um

1106
00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:40,480
so call in external expertise that's a

1107
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:42,400
very good counter measure

1108
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,040
and discuss

1109
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,119
scope creep we have seen that in several

1110
00:41:47,119 --> 00:41:49,520
projects

1111
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,480
also in amsterdam the new subway system

1112
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,480
way over time way over budget but it

1113
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:55,839
couldn't go back

1114
00:41:55,839 --> 00:41:57,680
so that's a problem discuss it and

1115
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,520
discuss the exit terms

1116
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:00,960
because you can't

1117
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,079
build half a subway system say oh yeah

1118
00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:06,000
okay

1119
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,960
you will just stop get some landfill

1120
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:10,560
close it up

1121
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:11,520
shame

1122
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,640
so you have to discuss those things

1123
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,720
our world in data i want just wanted to

1124
00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:20,079
mention it it's a very good resource for

1125
00:42:20,079 --> 00:42:21,200
statistics

1126
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:22,400
if you want to know if something is

1127
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,000
actually true

1128
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,319
poverty is rising

1129
00:42:26,319 --> 00:42:28,240
well these guys

1130
00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:30,640
they they kept records of poverty over

1131
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,839
the last 20 years so go look

1132
00:42:33,839 --> 00:42:35,839
is it actually true

1133
00:42:35,839 --> 00:42:40,078
our world in data is very good

1134
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:42,480
yes

1135
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,640
so reclaim your brain get rid of bad

1136
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,119
apps from your phone this is

1137
00:42:47,119 --> 00:42:49,280
i i told you the talk is actually bigger

1138
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:50,880
so and tell people to get rid of

1139
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,520
whatsapp and stuff like that uh browser

1140
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,680
extensions that's also for the larger

1141
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,119
part

1142
00:42:57,119 --> 00:43:00,880
and ask questions this is very important

1143
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,119
try to be the boss of the conversation

1144
00:43:03,119 --> 00:43:04,880
and try to

1145
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:06,880
pinpoint all the heuristics they're

1146
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:08,880
getting to and

1147
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:10,640
you know marketeers good marketeers they

1148
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,640
know all this stuff already

1149
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,420
it's up to you to also know

1150
00:43:14,420 --> 00:43:15,760
[Music]

1151
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:17,680
um

1152
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,240
segregation we also know uh communicate

1153
00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:22,640
this is this is important as well if i

1154
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:24,960
social engineer someone let's say i want

1155
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:26,400
to get into this

1156
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,319
this complex here and i don't have a

1157
00:43:28,319 --> 00:43:30,960
ticket and i go try it that way

1158
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,119
and i make a lot of fuss and they send

1159
00:43:33,119 --> 00:43:36,960
me away and i'll try the other entrance

1160
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,119
and they don't know about me

1161
00:43:39,119 --> 00:43:40,720
it might work

1162
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:42,400
but if there's those guys got on the

1163
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,160
radio say look there's a weird guy here

1164
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,000
trying to get in so everyone be on

1165
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,640
lookout you know it's weird

1166
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:53,119
my chances are very slim after that

1167
00:43:53,119 --> 00:43:55,520
so these are some sources

1168
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:56,560
um

1169
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,800
here's an egg it's a dutch

1170
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:00,640
machitscorn

1171
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:02,480
neurosurgeon

1172
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,400
very very good book

1173
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,000
read it

1174
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,720
factfulness hans rosling is no longer

1175
00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:11,119
alive but he left us a great book

1176
00:44:11,119 --> 00:44:11,839
and

1177
00:44:11,839 --> 00:44:14,480
richard nisbet with mindware also very

1178
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:16,560
very well recommended

1179
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:17,760
and

1180
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,960
listen to the podcast because it's fun

1181
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:22,720
now you don't have to

1182
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:25,280
right cyber thank you

1183
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,079
and uh if there's any questions i'll be

1184
00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:29,810
happy to answer

1185
00:44:29,810 --> 00:44:33,578
[Music]

1186
00:44:35,599 --> 00:44:37,920
great uh if you have a question uh

1187
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:39,680
please line up uh by the microphone in

1188
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,839
the middle and uh first we'll check with

1189
00:44:41,839 --> 00:44:44,160
signal uh so we okay none for the

1190
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:45,520
internet right now why don't you go

1191
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:49,280
ahead and start with the first question

1192
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,119
i thank you at first for the talk it was

1193
00:44:51,119 --> 00:44:53,520
very interesting and i learned a lot

1194
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,880
i was wondering about the principle of

1195
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,680
people like which are in extremely uh

1196
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:01,359
bubbles but

1197
00:45:01,359 --> 00:45:02,720
but they know

1198
00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:04,640
but they think everyone else is in a

1199
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:06,160
bubble so they know the theory about

1200
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,040
bubbles they know the theory about how

1201
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:10,640
you get the information you want but

1202
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,119
they think they're the only one with the

1203
00:45:13,119 --> 00:45:15,440
truth and that everyone else is being

1204
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,640
lied to in the bubble and etc and like

1205
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:20,880
for example the flat earth

1206
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:22,880
people

1207
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:24,640
some things like that like the most

1208
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,839
ridiculous truths but still they they

1209
00:45:27,839 --> 00:45:28,800
know

1210
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,640
they know all the theories which are

1211
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,880
being discussed they but they can't seem

1212
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:34,319
to

1213
00:45:34,319 --> 00:45:36,400
apply it to themselves they only they

1214
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,720
use it to discredit everyone else can

1215
00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:39,520
you

1216
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:41,280
tell us have you had some tips yeah of

1217
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:42,560
course these these are complete

1218
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,720
theorists and this works exactly that

1219
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:47,280
way there's bubbles and they get served

1220
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,119
all the stuff they want to hear and

1221
00:45:49,119 --> 00:45:51,599
sometimes some some little proof seeps

1222
00:45:51,599 --> 00:45:53,440
in like we have a picture of the earth

1223
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:54,240
right

1224
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:55,839
it's not flat

1225
00:45:55,839 --> 00:45:58,400
but they flat they just deny that see

1226
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:00,480
look but you're all out to get us i see

1227
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,800
this the entire day and everybody's

1228
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,440
telling me and so you must be wrong

1229
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,119
and that's what's happening and if your

1230
00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:09,440
bubble gets large enough you you get you

1231
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:10,480
tend to be

1232
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,960
you know these these neuropaths the new

1233
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,520
parts that you are creating by

1234
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:17,680
constantly seeing the same and the same

1235
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,160
and same over again these parts are very

1236
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:21,520
hard to break

1237
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,400
so this is what happens

1238
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,880
most curious in is like

1239
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,000
they they tell so they know that bubbles

1240
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,160
exist they know that oh you're in a

1241
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,640
bubble you're so of course yes why can't

1242
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,880
they um

1243
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,200
mirror that to their own situation why

1244
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,079
because if i get a new theory like if i

1245
00:46:42,079 --> 00:46:43,839
hear this and i wouldn't know about it i

1246
00:46:43,839 --> 00:46:45,760
think oh maybe this applies to me maybe

1247
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:47,920
this but

1248
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:49,760
how can you

1249
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,079
know that it exists but then not

1250
00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:53,599
applying it to yourself that's that's

1251
00:46:53,599 --> 00:46:54,960
the thing like i'm wondering what

1252
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,520
happens that's called confirmation bias

1253
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,760
and you are naturally inclined to always

1254
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,640
look at what supports your belief

1255
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:04,720
so things that don't support your belief

1256
00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:06,480
they don't feel good

1257
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,040
because nobody likes to be wrong

1258
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,760
so i have some pieces of information and

1259
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:13,200
because of the bubble i have a lot of

1260
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,400
this and there is this and that doesn't

1261
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,359
just feel good so i'll try to find some

1262
00:47:19,359 --> 00:47:21,359
reasons to deny it or

1263
00:47:21,359 --> 00:47:23,280
ignore it or whatever because uh and

1264
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,040
that's confirmation bias you're always

1265
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,119
looking for confirmation

1266
00:47:27,119 --> 00:47:30,000
what you already think is the truth

1267
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:31,680
that's a natural tendency it's one of

1268
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:33,839
the heuristics

1269
00:47:33,839 --> 00:47:35,760
and yeah we just have time for one last

1270
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,240
question if it's somewhat brief and

1271
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:40,800
direct concise like he was advising i'll

1272
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,440
try uh thank you for the talk um can you

1273
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,280
talk a bit about how you got started

1274
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,680
with social engineering excuse me can

1275
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:49,760
you talk a bit about how you started get

1276
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:51,520
with social engineering oh this is a

1277
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,240
very long story but um if you guys like

1278
00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:56,640
i'll be over there somewhere or we'll

1279
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,119
find a nice spot drink some water do

1280
00:47:59,119 --> 00:48:02,400
drink water uh and just find me here and

1281
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,880
we can talk some more if you like

1282
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:08,079
and given uh his his expertise uh you

1283
00:48:08,079 --> 00:48:10,480
should engage to see what it's like to

1284
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,119
to be social with a social engineer and

1285
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:14,640
with that let's let's thank him again

1286
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:18,750
for amazing i can tell you

1287
00:48:18,750 --> 00:48:23,920
[Applause]