1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:16,000 [Music] 2 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,960 i'm an anarchist primarily a hacker and 3 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:20,640 reverse engineer 4 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:22,400 and i run an e-waste reverse engineering 5 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,840 laboratory called onbinary where we 6 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:27,279 repurpose 7 00:00:27,279 --> 00:00:29,199 e-waste 8 00:00:29,199 --> 00:00:30,640 i'll start with a little this will be 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:32,960 this this talk will not have any slides 10 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:34,800 it'll mainly deal with 11 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,600 our thinking about electronic waste 12 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:38,480 and 13 00:00:38,480 --> 00:00:41,040 some of the philosophy behind that 14 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,200 i thought it was necessary to to talk 15 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,520 about this subject because we tend to uh 16 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,200 hacker conferences talk about all the 17 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:48,879 technical minutiae 18 00:00:48,879 --> 00:00:51,039 and details that go into hacking devices 19 00:00:51,039 --> 00:00:53,199 and reverse engineering devices but not 20 00:00:53,199 --> 00:00:55,039 enough about the context so i felt it 21 00:00:55,039 --> 00:00:56,719 would be nice to just have a talk about 22 00:00:56,719 --> 00:00:59,840 the context in our thinking 23 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:01,680 i'll start with a little personal 24 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:03,520 history as this will become relevant to 25 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,280 the subject we will discuss 26 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,600 later 27 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,600 about 22 years ago 28 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:11,520 i was an undergraduate interdisciplinary 29 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:12,640 arts student 30 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:14,400 and a young hacker in the city of the 31 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:15,280 hague 32 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,159 with an extremely slim budget 33 00:01:18,159 --> 00:01:20,159 to make ends meet in the first years of 34 00:01:20,159 --> 00:01:21,600 my studies 35 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:22,799 my neighbor 36 00:01:22,799 --> 00:01:24,320 in my student residence and i both 37 00:01:24,320 --> 00:01:27,759 obsessed with hacking hardware for music 38 00:01:27,759 --> 00:01:29,119 would go out late in the evening on 39 00:01:29,119 --> 00:01:30,720 thursday nights with a shopping cart 40 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:32,479 looking for discarded electronics on the 41 00:01:32,479 --> 00:01:36,560 sidewalks in the hague city center 42 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,200 you see in the year 2000 43 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:40,640 e-waste recycling wasn't strongly 44 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:41,920 regulated 45 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,320 and people just threw out their beige 46 00:01:44,320 --> 00:01:46,399 pcs out on the street when they were 47 00:01:46,399 --> 00:01:48,640 done with them 48 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:50,399 we would also find lots of old stereo 49 00:01:50,399 --> 00:01:54,880 amplifiers and old dusty crt tvs 50 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:56,880 to our look just a few hundred meters 51 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:58,719 from our student residence we had an 52 00:01:58,719 --> 00:02:00,560 electronics hardware supplier student 53 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:01,840 brand 54 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:03,520 and a long street filled with 55 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,320 second-hand electronics stores 56 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:07,840 we would pick up any device we would 57 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:09,758 find on the sidewalk 58 00:02:09,758 --> 00:02:11,920 bring them back to our student residence 59 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:14,319 open them up and remove any component we 60 00:02:14,319 --> 00:02:16,080 could harvest for our projects and 61 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,319 repair the rest 62 00:02:18,319 --> 00:02:21,680 the repair devices we would sell to 63 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,040 these second-hand shop owners 64 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,680 now i would create diy electronic music 65 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,000 instruments and play them live in 66 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,360 squatted buildings all over the city 67 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,840 in a time when trash was readily 68 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:37,599 available to anyone who wanted to do 69 00:02:37,599 --> 00:02:39,360 something interesting with it 70 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,959 so were abandoned decaying buildings to 71 00:02:42,959 --> 00:02:44,640 anyone who wanted to make them available 72 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:47,680 for use by the community 73 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,280 the anarchists in the hague around the 74 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,040 year 2000s were prolific in their 75 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,360 attempts to bring life and freedom 76 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:55,440 to an otherwise dull and bureaucratic 77 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,760 city 78 00:02:57,760 --> 00:02:59,440 they had an old squatted anarchist 79 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,440 stronghold in the middle of the hague 80 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,239 called the blau onslach or the blue 81 00:03:04,239 --> 00:03:07,040 fungus in english 82 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,040 dozens of anarchists lived there 83 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:10,720 published magazines and organized 84 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:12,480 protests 85 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,480 they had a theater space called the 86 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,480 white space where i would perform my 87 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,599 first pieces of harsh noise music 88 00:03:19,599 --> 00:03:21,840 a folks goku or a social kitchen called 89 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:23,519 the femor 90 00:03:23,519 --> 00:03:26,159 or the murdered butcher 91 00:03:26,159 --> 00:03:28,080 and a large industrial space called the 92 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,239 pirate bar or the pirate bar in the 93 00:03:30,239 --> 00:03:32,799 harbor of schreifeningen 94 00:03:32,799 --> 00:03:35,280 these spaces would be entirely run by 95 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:36,720 volunteers 96 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,400 much like this camp but all year round 97 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,640 and that and they also lived inside and 98 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,879 around these buildings and honestly the 99 00:03:44,879 --> 00:03:46,400 only ones who would genuinely be 100 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,239 welcoming to a young black kid with a 101 00:03:48,239 --> 00:03:51,920 natural propensity to hack 102 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:53,920 a lot has changed 103 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,000 in the past 20 years 104 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:57,920 i mean in the early 2000s i used to be 105 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,239 surrounded and harassed by skinhead 106 00:04:00,239 --> 00:04:01,840 nazis 107 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,080 20 years later these p these types make 108 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,400 memes and wear suits and run white 109 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:07,680 winged populist parties in the 110 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:09,920 government 111 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,720 we used to be able to find and create 112 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:16,000 new and free and public spaces 113 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,000 now squatting has been made illegal 114 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:19,839 and abandoned buildings are bought by 115 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,240 the rich for real estate speculation 116 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,440 and remain empty and unused 117 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,759 and lastly where we used to be able to 118 00:04:27,759 --> 00:04:30,160 physically see electronic trash in the 119 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,720 street to repair it ourselves 120 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,040 now we have recycling parks where the 121 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,280 sheer volume of electronic trash is 122 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:39,440 hidden from the public 123 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,360 and shipped to low income countries in 124 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,160 the global south 125 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,160 i kind of covered a lot of ground here 126 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,479 so i need to shortly explain 127 00:04:48,479 --> 00:04:50,560 why i mention all of these different 128 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:52,080 things 129 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,080 from personal anecdotes to changes in 130 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,560 the political climate 131 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,400 it's because they're all not that 132 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,240 different 133 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,320 i'm trying to highlight subtle changes 134 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,639 in the context in which we live and work 135 00:05:04,639 --> 00:05:06,320 and play 136 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,560 highlighting a sense of freedom 137 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:10,240 and independence from government and 138 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:11,680 corporate control 139 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,680 that we took for granted 140 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,880 and has slowly disappeared 141 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,639 i feel this disappearance is the cause 142 00:05:18,639 --> 00:05:20,400 of a lot of our current social and 143 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,800 environmental problems 144 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,000 also with electronic waste 145 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,000 for instance 146 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,240 hiding the electronic waste we produce 147 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,800 behind recycling and environmental waste 148 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,160 managed waste management strategies 149 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,160 helps the tech industry greenwash their 150 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,800 products and sell more of it 151 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,120 it allows them to continue to project a 152 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,280 mythical future scenario 153 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:46,400 where these products will be 154 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:48,720 environmentally ethical make our lives 155 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:49,680 easier 156 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:51,039 more comfortable 157 00:05:51,039 --> 00:05:53,840 and more connected 158 00:05:54,479 --> 00:05:57,440 i'm sure we here are all aware that this 159 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,840 is obviously a marketing ploy conjured 160 00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:02,160 up by tech companies that sell devices 161 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,160 and that we don't genuinely believe in 162 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:05,680 the science fiction sold to us by 163 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,680 advertising companies 164 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,759 somehow i do feel that the underlying 165 00:06:09,759 --> 00:06:12,000 ideological message 166 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:16,240 is implicitly accepted by most of us 167 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,960 the underlying ideological message being 168 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,520 that the technology we use 169 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:25,199 sanitized by the visual absence of waste 170 00:06:25,199 --> 00:06:27,840 is somehow inherently rational ethical 171 00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:30,638 and clean 172 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,440 that is created in some kind of sterile 173 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,000 vacuum unaffected by the randomness and 174 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,120 unpredictability of life 175 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:40,800 i get the impression that because it 176 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,639 portrays itself as the application of 177 00:06:42,639 --> 00:06:45,520 the scientific research that preceded it 178 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,680 or the product as a reflection of our 179 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,160 highest scientific achievements 180 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:51,680 that we are prompted to trust it 181 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:53,520 implicitly 182 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,240 this means we automatically gloss over 183 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,240 many of the real intentions that 184 00:06:58,240 --> 00:06:59,759 underlie the introduction of these 185 00:06:59,759 --> 00:07:02,800 products to the general populace and 186 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:04,800 adopt a strong tendency to think about 187 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,919 electronics within a reductionist narrow 188 00:07:07,919 --> 00:07:09,360 frame of reference 189 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,080 without full awareness of the very real 190 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,160 broad environmental and social context 191 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,039 in which it operates again 192 00:07:17,039 --> 00:07:19,120 taking a pluralistic contextual 193 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,360 perspective is important to understand 194 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,560 the mess we are in 195 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,560 we see this narrow frame of reference 196 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,560 when thinking about electronics 197 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,160 demonstrate a character that can only be 198 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,479 described as a dominant and perverse 199 00:07:32,479 --> 00:07:34,800 form of technofeticism 200 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,520 a preoccupation with the benefits of 201 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,520 technological novelty 202 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,680 the obsession with technological 203 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,759 aesthetics and the ideal of technology 204 00:07:43,759 --> 00:07:47,280 as a catalyst for human prosperity 205 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,199 some subjects that pass by the average 206 00:07:49,199 --> 00:07:51,520 person's news feed on a weekly basis are 207 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,400 the elaborate transhumanist fantasies 208 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,319 exploring the future convergence of 209 00:07:56,319 --> 00:07:58,639 humanity and artificial intelligence i'm 210 00:07:58,639 --> 00:08:00,240 sure you've read it 211 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:01,440 how we can 212 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,680 clear the ocean of microplastics using 213 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,160 advanced robotics or the promise of 214 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,639 sustainable biomimetic architecture and 215 00:08:08,639 --> 00:08:10,160 urbanism 216 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,319 even billionaires selling the miracles 217 00:08:12,319 --> 00:08:14,000 private space flight in the future 218 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:17,680 colonization of mars and so on 219 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,120 on the other hand there are obviously 220 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,599 also sounds of distrust and alarm 221 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:25,680 people who rightfully so address 222 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,960 problematic developments in technology 223 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:30,560 be it about the dystopian amount of 224 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:32,240 corporate and government surveillance we 225 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,640 are increasingly subjected to 226 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,240 and the rapid disappearance of civil 227 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,240 liberties that follow 228 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:39,760 not to mention news about arms 229 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:41,479 manufacturers in the west's 230 00:08:41,479 --> 00:08:44,000 military-industrial complex that incite 231 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,000 forever wars in order to in order to 232 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:47,519 maintain a lucrative market for 233 00:08:47,519 --> 00:08:50,399 high-tech weaponry 234 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,200 i mean although it is good uh that we 235 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,440 hear news that is contrary to the 236 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,680 marketing spin manufacturers use to sell 237 00:08:57,680 --> 00:08:59,360 their devices 238 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,040 and it is great that we as hackers 239 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:02,640 question and interrogate every new 240 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:04,640 technology that emerges 241 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,360 the underlying implicit consumption and 242 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,320 trust in technology that is supposed to 243 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,720 work in a neutral and unbiased way is 244 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,680 surprisingly still intact 245 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:18,640 what i feel remains in both attitudes 246 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:20,560 is that the progression of technological 247 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:23,920 innovation is somehow inevitable 248 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:25,279 you could almost say it's like a force 249 00:09:25,279 --> 00:09:27,040 of nature 250 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,600 and that progress in the human condition 251 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,440 is inextricably linked to the rapid 252 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:32,959 forward march of technological 253 00:09:32,959 --> 00:09:35,200 innovation 254 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,760 the aforementioned biomimeticism in 255 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:39,519 architecture and design is a great 256 00:09:39,519 --> 00:09:41,360 example of that 257 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,600 to my estimation we appear to think that 258 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:45,680 by creating biomorphic buildings that 259 00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:47,760 imitate geometric structures we find in 260 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:49,200 nature 261 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:50,640 we create technologies that are 262 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:52,880 harmonious with it 263 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:54,480 allowing us to avert the growing 264 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,440 problems of global warming and that we 265 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:58,880 can somehow 266 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:00,640 reintegrate ourselves within our 267 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:02,959 ecosystem in ways that doesn't harm the 268 00:10:02,959 --> 00:10:05,600 environment 269 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,640 this shows that all we can do is amend 270 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:10,320 technological developments we find 271 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:11,839 problematic 272 00:10:11,839 --> 00:10:14,079 changing the bits we don't like 273 00:10:14,079 --> 00:10:17,279 and keep the rest of the ideology intact 274 00:10:17,279 --> 00:10:19,519 duct taping the problems we face by 275 00:10:19,519 --> 00:10:21,440 iteratively designing new products that 276 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,120 solve problems the previous one has 277 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:24,720 created 278 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:26,640 while the status quo is unshakably 279 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,199 maintained 280 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,760 now it feels as if certain 281 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:35,920 fundamental questions regarding 282 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,040 technology and our relationship to it 283 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,079 are not being asked in earnest 284 00:10:42,079 --> 00:10:44,959 and i wonder why 285 00:10:44,959 --> 00:10:48,399 is it because we the public don't 286 00:10:48,399 --> 00:10:50,560 fully understand the intricacies that go 287 00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:52,240 into how technological technological 288 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:53,600 products are made 289 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,240 um is it that we think 290 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:57,040 this 291 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,040 this way because it fits our economics 292 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:00,480 and the means by which we sustain 293 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,480 ourselves and our families financially 294 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,560 or does the problem go farther 295 00:11:06,560 --> 00:11:08,399 is the real problem inherently 296 00:11:08,399 --> 00:11:10,000 ideological 297 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:11,600 that the ways in which we think about 298 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,399 ourselves and the environment is stuck 299 00:11:14,399 --> 00:11:16,399 permanently in intermixed with 300 00:11:16,399 --> 00:11:19,040 technology 301 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:21,760 perhaps in this sense europe a place 302 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:22,720 where we 303 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:24,560 somewhat arrogantly portray ourselves as 304 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:27,600 a post-ideological society 305 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,040 liberated from the backward and 306 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:30,720 restrictive confines of dogmatic 307 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,399 religion 308 00:11:32,399 --> 00:11:33,519 is still 309 00:11:33,519 --> 00:11:36,800 deeply ideological 310 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,200 maybe we have simply replaced religious 311 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,120 ideology 312 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,320 with an ideology that favors scientism 313 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,440 and techno-fetishism 314 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,079 that the disastrous outcomes in the 315 00:11:50,079 --> 00:11:52,079 forward march of technological 316 00:11:52,079 --> 00:11:53,440 advancement 317 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,680 are not accidental 318 00:11:55,680 --> 00:12:00,079 but the modus operandi of our society 319 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,720 like i mentioned earlier 320 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:04,800 electronic waste is an interesting 321 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,320 subject 322 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,800 because its very existence 323 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,440 immediately provides a counterweight to 324 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,160 the dominant ideological narrative 325 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,760 and defies reductionist viewpoints 326 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:21,279 the problem is inherently pluralistic 327 00:12:21,279 --> 00:12:23,600 if technology advances if it is as they 328 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:24,560 say 329 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:26,480 progress 330 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,360 why do so many of it regress 331 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:33,360 ending up broken and dead in landfills 332 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,160 why do the devices which only a few 333 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,320 years ago were heralded as the 334 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,560 harbingers of the future 335 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:43,120 now lay idle in a pile 336 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:47,120 leaking battery fluid into the soil 337 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,200 in the hope of learning more about this 338 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,839 subject i visited several conferences 339 00:12:51,839 --> 00:12:54,560 and on electronic waste 340 00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:57,519 and um the most bizarre aspect of 341 00:12:57,519 --> 00:12:59,920 visiting these events is that next to 342 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:00,959 endless 343 00:13:00,959 --> 00:13:03,120 ineffective discussions about 344 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,600 environmental policy 345 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,160 our techno fetishism and capitalistic 346 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,079 obsession with the commodification of 347 00:13:10,079 --> 00:13:11,519 our problems 348 00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:13,920 quickly takes over and yet again 349 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,399 produces a whole range of unnecessary 350 00:13:16,399 --> 00:13:20,160 products and solutions 351 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,760 the term circular economy quote unquote 352 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,320 was also thrown around a lot 353 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,800 in short it is the idea that you can use 354 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,839 waste as a resource for other products 355 00:13:31,839 --> 00:13:34,320 and so close the loop from production to 356 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:36,959 disposal 357 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,519 i find using this term to again be a 358 00:13:39,519 --> 00:13:40,959 misleading 359 00:13:40,959 --> 00:13:43,199 biomimetic fantasy 360 00:13:43,199 --> 00:13:45,120 as the problems we face aren't just 361 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,079 economic in nature 362 00:13:48,079 --> 00:13:49,920 as i mentioned earlier 363 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,360 the context in which the problem 364 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,680 situates itself is broad 365 00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:55,839 and pluralistic 366 00:13:55,839 --> 00:13:58,959 the objective should not be to extract 367 00:13:58,959 --> 00:14:01,360 economic value from objects and 368 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,320 materials we consider to be waste 369 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,480 but to reimagine 370 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,079 what we consider waste to be 371 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,240 there's not a single magical competitive 372 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,560 business strategy that is going to work 373 00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:19,040 in time and at scale 374 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,360 that will outperform solving this crisis 375 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:26,639 in an open unilateral uncompetitive way 376 00:14:26,639 --> 00:14:29,279 our capitalistic economy is the cause of 377 00:14:29,279 --> 00:14:30,399 the problem 378 00:14:30,399 --> 00:14:32,399 not the solution 379 00:14:32,399 --> 00:14:34,160 short analogy 380 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,240 expecting capitalism to solve our 381 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,480 environmental problems is like lying in 382 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,240 a hospital bed 383 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,560 dying from a terminal illness 384 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,719 and expecting the disease to cure you 385 00:14:47,839 --> 00:14:49,279 one of the more recent e-waste 386 00:14:49,279 --> 00:14:51,279 conferences i visited had a trade floor 387 00:14:51,279 --> 00:14:53,600 on the ground floor of the event 388 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,760 half of the trade floor was filled with 389 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,040 companies that owned smelting facilities 390 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,279 or developed state-of-the-art circuit 391 00:15:01,279 --> 00:15:03,839 board shredding machines 392 00:15:03,839 --> 00:15:05,680 there was a lot of talk about artificial 393 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,079 intelligence and cloud-based inventory 394 00:15:08,079 --> 00:15:10,800 solutions for processing waste 395 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,240 but very little talk about the causes 396 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,760 and nature of electronic waste 397 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,519 and the different conceptual ways in 398 00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:21,040 which we can address this massive 399 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,319 problem to begin with 400 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,959 again our current capitalistic economy 401 00:15:26,959 --> 00:15:30,000 is not a rational objective and neutral 402 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,800 exchange of good goods and services 403 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,440 it is an ideological framework 404 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,839 a value system governed by belief 405 00:15:37,839 --> 00:15:40,399 rituals and superstition 406 00:15:40,399 --> 00:15:42,639 it is like an impenetrable monolith that 407 00:15:42,639 --> 00:15:46,079 determines how we think and act 408 00:15:46,079 --> 00:15:47,600 we think we are dealing with a problem 409 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,440 that is material and pragmatic which 410 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,360 requires a solution that should shift 411 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,360 how we extract and exchange monetary 412 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,920 value in relation to waste 413 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:56,800 but 414 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,040 nothing could be farther from the truth 415 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:00,800 it is time we should come to understand 416 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:05,439 what the nature of electronic waste is 417 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,399 um conceptually talking about the nature 418 00:16:10,399 --> 00:16:12,959 of electronic waste is philosophically 419 00:16:12,959 --> 00:16:15,920 an ontological question 420 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,399 ontology deals with the nature of being 421 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,639 and perhaps by trying to answer the 422 00:16:22,639 --> 00:16:24,240 question of what electronic waste 423 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:25,759 actually is 424 00:16:25,759 --> 00:16:27,680 by initiating that process of 425 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,279 investigation 426 00:16:29,279 --> 00:16:31,199 we can find ways to look at the problem 427 00:16:31,199 --> 00:16:34,079 in a different way 428 00:16:35,199 --> 00:16:37,360 we can start anywhere so let's start at 429 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,160 the production of devices um if we start 430 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,959 at the absolute beginning 431 00:16:42,959 --> 00:16:45,600 and i will not go into much detail here 432 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,600 industrial metals are refined from mind 433 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,160 or an aggregation of one or more 434 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:51,920 minerals 435 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,839 the destructive activity of establishing 436 00:16:53,839 --> 00:16:56,320 a mining site once a habit of habitat 437 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,880 for local wildlife 438 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,279 part of a balanced ecosystem 439 00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:03,040 and the activity of extracting the 440 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,679 components of the ore that have utility 441 00:17:05,679 --> 00:17:07,760 in the production process 442 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:09,839 already unleashes tailings that may 443 00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:13,119 contain arsenic which is a potent poison 444 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,119 barite cadmium 445 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,240 calcite lead which causes widespread 446 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,480 neurological damage and dramatically 447 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,160 impedes on the cognitive development of 448 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:23,520 children 449 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,039 fluorite more poisonous than lead 450 00:17:27,039 --> 00:17:30,080 manganese sulfur and zinc 451 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:31,760 and i believe the harm of radioactive 452 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,600 materials need no further introduction 453 00:17:35,919 --> 00:17:38,240 although the progress uh the process of 454 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,640 creating a device uh causes much more 455 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,240 harm to the environment further down the 456 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:43,120 line 457 00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:44,640 than just the tailings that are released 458 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,960 in the environment such as the 459 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:48,799 tremendous amount of water that is used 460 00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:50,160 in the semiconductor industry for 461 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:51,679 instance 462 00:17:51,679 --> 00:17:54,080 we can already notice that irreparable 463 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,559 harm is immediately done at the start of 464 00:17:56,559 --> 00:17:57,679 production 465 00:17:57,679 --> 00:17:59,600 before a device is even brought into 466 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:01,679 existence 467 00:18:01,679 --> 00:18:04,160 that something had to cease to exist 468 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,080 often permanently 469 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,080 in order for the device to come into 470 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,399 being 471 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:13,600 with this knowledge 472 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,799 we arrive at an ontological axiom 473 00:18:16,799 --> 00:18:18,640 that can help us understand what e-waste 474 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:19,840 is 475 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:21,840 it is the understanding that everything 476 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,200 that exists is in existence by virtue of 477 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,280 its existence 478 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:30,080 the entire reason for being is existence 479 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,480 itself 480 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,280 what automatically follows is that 481 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,600 when everything in existence by virtue 482 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:38,880 of itself 483 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,679 is in existence by virtue of itself 484 00:18:41,679 --> 00:18:44,320 any other thing that is not an intrinsic 485 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,640 property of that thing 486 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,559 cannot own or lane claim to it 487 00:18:50,559 --> 00:18:53,200 therefore nobody can own anything 488 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:54,400 no land 489 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:55,679 no 490 00:18:55,679 --> 00:18:58,799 especially no person 491 00:18:58,799 --> 00:19:01,360 private property is not theft 492 00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:05,200 private property does not exist 493 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,280 again 494 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,440 things can relate to one another 495 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,640 even demonstrate an interdependence 496 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,200 but they cannot ontologically belong to 497 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:16,640 each other 498 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,640 the things we produce with our hands are 499 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:20,400 no different 500 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,760 our uncanny ability to invent and bring 501 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,600 things into the world 502 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,440 has not yet taught us what it 503 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,840 ontologically means for something to 504 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,320 exist 505 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:35,919 this ignorance ignorance results in the 506 00:19:35,919 --> 00:19:38,480 situation that devices the devices we 507 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,559 create by the very ways in which we 508 00:19:40,559 --> 00:19:42,000 produce them 509 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,720 permanently and destructively infringe 510 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,280 on the existence of other things 511 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,360 by claiming ownership of their existence 512 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:52,480 this process 513 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,799 which is kind of like an avalanche in a 514 00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:57,120 snowstorm 515 00:19:57,120 --> 00:19:59,200 is continued after people have thrown 516 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,159 their devices away 517 00:20:02,159 --> 00:20:04,400 uh common causes for throwing devices 518 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,960 away are blatant over consumption 519 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:08,960 a short lifespan of cheap electronic 520 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:10,960 devices 521 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,799 to deliberate and planned obsolescence 522 00:20:14,799 --> 00:20:18,799 the inability to repair devices 523 00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:21,520 abandon software support 524 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,320 end-of-life status of devices 525 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,400 the destruction of unsold products now 526 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,480 we know amazon is guilty of doing this 527 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,400 frequently 528 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,240 and the reckless dumping of e-waste 529 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,000 now to shortly give an overview of what 530 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,120 happens after devices are discarded 531 00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:40,880 the global e-waste statistics 532 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,080 partnership or the gesp 533 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:45,679 recently released a document called the 534 00:20:45,679 --> 00:20:48,320 global trans-boundary e-waste e-waste 535 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,200 flows monitor 2022. it's kind of a long 536 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:52,960 title 537 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:54,559 which aims to shed some light on the 538 00:20:54,559 --> 00:20:58,240 global flow and processing of e-waste 539 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,159 in that document 540 00:21:00,159 --> 00:21:02,720 we find that in 2019 541 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,600 we produced about 7.3 kilograms of 542 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,120 electronic waste per capita 543 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,559 this sums up to 53.6 million tons of 544 00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:14,400 e-waste 545 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,120 this is expected to rise to a staggering 546 00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:19,200 74.7 547 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,120 million tons of e-waste in in 2030 548 00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:27,360 and 110 million tons by 2050. i mean 549 00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:29,760 that's ridiculous 550 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,480 this is expected to uh 551 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,120 to go on 552 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,760 as shocking as this projection might be 553 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,760 uh the most surprising figure i found is 554 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,840 that in 2019 555 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:47,520 only 17 percent 17 percent or 9.3 556 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,480 million tons of it was managed in a way 557 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,159 that was environmentally sound 558 00:21:54,559 --> 00:21:57,520 this means that 83 percent 559 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,679 or 44.3 million tons of global e-waste 560 00:22:01,679 --> 00:22:04,640 literally fell off our radar 561 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,600 how is that possible 562 00:22:07,679 --> 00:22:10,000 the majority is like mixed up with other 563 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,480 waste streams and that ends up in poor 564 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,000 countries 565 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,440 where they are traded 566 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:16,799 burned 567 00:22:16,799 --> 00:22:19,840 dissolved in open acid pools 568 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,640 and dumped in landfills 569 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,559 endangering the health of people that 570 00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:27,760 the process that processes waste and 571 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,520 ultimately the environment at large 572 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,200 and there are areas in ghana 573 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:36,080 that 574 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:37,760 is currently called the electronics 575 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,120 graveyard 576 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:41,760 that is so far that's so large you see 577 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,720 electronic waste onto the horizon 578 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,080 the sky is filled with smoke 579 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:49,919 and there are people in the informal 580 00:22:49,919 --> 00:22:50,880 sector 581 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,880 covered in dirt 582 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,799 trying to get something out of it they 583 00:22:54,799 --> 00:22:57,440 can use to feed their families 584 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:58,559 right 585 00:22:58,559 --> 00:23:00,960 and this is this is also common in china 586 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,960 we do this 587 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,720 we buy all these iphones we buy all 588 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,960 these devices once we're done with them 589 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,919 we discard them yes great 590 00:23:09,919 --> 00:23:12,640 right we put them in some kind of a 591 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:14,480 recycling facility 592 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,400 shipped off to africa 593 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,559 right but at least we can pretend that 594 00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:22,200 we're solving the problem 595 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,000 so after the short trajectory from the 596 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,440 very beginning 597 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,559 to the end of the electronic device 598 00:23:28,559 --> 00:23:31,039 we can argue that in the creation and 599 00:23:31,039 --> 00:23:35,440 the supposed death of a device 600 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,840 it is only a thing that exists 601 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,880 an isolated object unto itself 602 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,080 for a very short time 603 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,960 so it's only a thing to us at least for 604 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,640 a very very short time that's when we 605 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,919 use it right that's when it's a thing 606 00:23:51,919 --> 00:23:53,679 that's when it has its own ontological 607 00:23:53,679 --> 00:23:55,279 identity 608 00:23:55,279 --> 00:23:59,039 but that's the shortest part of its life 609 00:23:59,039 --> 00:24:02,840 and if we want to acknowledge its full 610 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,520 life it becomes something entirely 611 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,918 different 612 00:24:10,559 --> 00:24:12,880 a more apt description is that each 613 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,600 device is unique 614 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,440 and is a unique catastrophic event 615 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,480 irreducible to the sum of its parts 616 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,600 an irreversible displacement of matter 617 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,360 and continued impediment to the 618 00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:29,760 environment 619 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,679 once we have unleashed these events into 620 00:24:31,679 --> 00:24:34,159 the world the environment is 621 00:24:34,159 --> 00:24:37,520 irreversibly damaged 622 00:24:37,679 --> 00:24:40,159 in this light 623 00:24:40,159 --> 00:24:42,480 adopting an ontologically nominalist 624 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,240 perspective could be beneficial 625 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,880 ontological nominalism which is a 626 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,919 philosophy about ontology that lost 627 00:24:51,919 --> 00:24:54,720 in the middle ages 628 00:24:55,039 --> 00:24:56,640 it asserts that you cannot refer to 629 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,360 things by their universal properties 630 00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:02,080 but only by their particularities 631 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,080 for example 632 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,480 to not consider a broken iphone by its 633 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,799 universal ontological properties 634 00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:11,360 right an iphone 635 00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:14,880 but as a particular event in time 636 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,120 with a unique history that ultimately 637 00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:20,320 got its screen cracked 638 00:25:20,559 --> 00:25:22,960 this brings the broader non-reductionist 639 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,200 pluralistic context back into the 640 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,480 acknowledgement of the problem 641 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,799 the ontological antithesis of this 642 00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:32,720 perspective is 643 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,960 the one the public in general currently 644 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:36,720 holds 645 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,840 which is ontologically realistic 646 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,039 ontological realists so not nominalists 647 00:25:43,039 --> 00:25:45,520 would argue that the devices like the 648 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,200 broken iphone 649 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:48,720 are within the same 650 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,720 category 651 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,960 a pile of computers 652 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,440 a pile of phones 653 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,559 and this is reflected in policy 654 00:25:58,559 --> 00:26:00,640 e-waste is considered an abstract 655 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,000 category 656 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,039 that might contain sub-categories 657 00:26:05,039 --> 00:26:09,039 but an abstract category unto itself 658 00:26:09,039 --> 00:26:11,039 this means that by virtue of its 659 00:26:11,039 --> 00:26:13,120 ontological status 660 00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:15,600 the only way to address it 661 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,640 is by its scale 662 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,159 if you address a problem through its 663 00:26:20,159 --> 00:26:22,080 universals 664 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,159 you will need a solution that addresses 665 00:26:24,159 --> 00:26:26,880 the same universals 666 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,120 if all you see is a pile 667 00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:31,919 you will treat it as such 668 00:26:31,919 --> 00:26:33,679 this is why we need to return to 669 00:26:33,679 --> 00:26:35,840 ontological nominalism 670 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,720 when discussing e-waste 671 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,279 if each device is 672 00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:43,360 ontologically unique 673 00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:45,200 with its own particularities and 674 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:46,960 character 675 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,039 what these devices are and what they 676 00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:50,640 could become 677 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,480 is all of a sudden opened up again 678 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,720 the former linear and destructive 679 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,760 trajectory of these devices i.e ending 680 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:01,919 up in ghana 681 00:27:01,919 --> 00:27:05,039 and set aflame 682 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:06,880 um 683 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,360 suddenly branch into a multitude of 684 00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:11,760 paths and possibilities 685 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,600 now i'm not saying 686 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,559 that this solves the e-waste problem 687 00:27:16,559 --> 00:27:17,840 directly 688 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:18,640 right 689 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,200 once a device like i said earlier comes 690 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,279 into existence that's it 691 00:27:23,279 --> 00:27:25,039 that's it 692 00:27:25,039 --> 00:27:27,120 there's no way we can go back 693 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:29,360 right 694 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:34,000 but what could happen to these devices 695 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,640 is still open 696 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,760 what we could do with these devices 697 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,360 still has a lot of possibilities 698 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:47,039 so 699 00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:48,720 what was once considered dead and 700 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,159 harmful 701 00:27:50,159 --> 00:27:50,960 is 702 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,159 resurrected 703 00:27:52,159 --> 00:27:54,880 uh resurrected and given a new life 704 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,720 much of what the anarchist did in the 705 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,120 hague 20 years ago 706 00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:01,200 it gives life and freedom 707 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,600 to an otherwise harmful and bureaucratic 708 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,840 process 709 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,279 now i'm sure you're guessing right now 710 00:28:07,279 --> 00:28:08,559 because i don't have any slides where 711 00:28:08,559 --> 00:28:10,880 i'm going with this 712 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,799 guess which activities are the most 713 00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:13,840 adept 714 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,320 at taking an ontologically anomalous 715 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,799 perspective towards devices 716 00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:20,320 can anybody name 717 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,640 an activity what are we here to do 718 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,799 hack right 719 00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:29,600 and reverse engineering 720 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:30,559 um 721 00:28:30,559 --> 00:28:32,640 now commonly reverse engineering is 722 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,640 explained as the reverse 723 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,960 of engineering as it were 724 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,799 where instead of starting at 725 00:28:38,799 --> 00:28:42,399 requirements and ending up with a design 726 00:28:42,399 --> 00:28:44,159 you start with the products and you end 727 00:28:44,159 --> 00:28:46,880 up with information of the design 728 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:48,480 now there's something 729 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,200 unique to this process it's not simply 730 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:52,559 reversible 731 00:28:52,559 --> 00:28:53,919 um 732 00:28:53,919 --> 00:28:55,799 the inverse or opposite of 733 00:28:55,799 --> 00:28:59,039 engineering um 734 00:28:59,039 --> 00:29:01,360 relies on an entirely different set of 735 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,120 thought processes 736 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:04,640 right let me go back to philosophy for 737 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,120 this in my personal experience reverse 738 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,039 engineering is inherently a heuristic 739 00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:10,640 thought process which is learning by 740 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,279 doing what i mean by this is that i 741 00:29:13,279 --> 00:29:14,799 experience it as an approach to a 742 00:29:14,799 --> 00:29:16,799 problem solving that is often 743 00:29:16,799 --> 00:29:20,720 inefficient imprecise and creative 744 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,960 if you happen to have a broad frame of 745 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:24,799 reference spanning diverse fields of 746 00:29:24,799 --> 00:29:26,559 knowledge we are all 747 00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:28,000 generalists 748 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,640 one way or another 749 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,640 this heuristic thought process allows 750 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,399 you to string together 751 00:29:34,399 --> 00:29:36,880 seemingly unrelated things 752 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,720 to help comprehend 753 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,440 whatever is your object of scrutiny 754 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,919 and uncover the rich potentialities that 755 00:29:43,919 --> 00:29:45,760 hide within 756 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,080 you know this is kind of a 757 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,799 convoluted way of saying um 758 00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:55,240 you know it's not a bug it's a feature 759 00:29:56,159 --> 00:29:58,240 now ontological nominalism towards 760 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,159 e-waste and discovering potentialities 761 00:30:02,159 --> 00:30:03,840 might seem like something that doesn't 762 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:05,600 directly address the magnitude of the 763 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,600 problems we face 764 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,440 you know i did admit that i i'm not here 765 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,760 with any solutions i'm just here to 766 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,080 address the way of thinking 767 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:15,520 that will help us 768 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,840 get towards solutions 769 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,279 and that's a step i'm not sure we've 770 00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:22,320 taken yet 771 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,640 um 772 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,320 but we are many 773 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,919 also right um 774 00:30:29,919 --> 00:30:32,640 apologetically hacking and reverse 775 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,320 engineering devices 776 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,480 immediately removes the biggest cause of 777 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,960 all the problems i just described 778 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,480 the concept of private property 779 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,559 and the governments and corporations 780 00:30:44,559 --> 00:30:45,840 that through it 781 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:47,760 maintain a stranglehold on the 782 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:49,440 environment 783 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:50,720 so 784 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,799 squat their empty buildings 785 00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:53,919 do it again 786 00:30:53,919 --> 00:30:55,679 hack their devices 787 00:30:55,679 --> 00:30:57,519 go dumpster diving and create new 788 00:30:57,519 --> 00:30:59,600 possibilities 789 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,880 the road we on leads to nowhere 790 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,240 and let's imagine new ones instead 791 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:07,660 thanks 792 00:31:07,660 --> 00:31:08,370 [Applause] 793 00:31:08,370 --> 00:31:09,090 [Music] 794 00:31:09,090 --> 00:31:14,860 [Applause] 795 00:31:14,860 --> 00:31:24,099 [Music] 796 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,840 thank you very much um 797 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,440 is it already 798 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:30,320 yes 799 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,799 working maybe we will see 800 00:31:32,799 --> 00:31:36,080 thank you i don't know 801 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,960 yeah you oh we hear something maybe 802 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,080 maybe not okay yeah perfect okay so we 803 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,480 have some time left for our questions so 804 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,320 if anyone has any please line up at the 805 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,720 microphones please be 806 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,240 close to the microphone so that we can 807 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,960 hear you properly properly and please be 808 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,960 quite concise in your question 809 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,519 so microphone in the middle front please 810 00:32:05,519 --> 00:32:06,559 start 811 00:32:06,559 --> 00:32:07,679 yes uh 812 00:32:07,679 --> 00:32:08,880 i think 813 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,640 that the best way 814 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,279 to reduce electronic waste is to buy 815 00:32:13,279 --> 00:32:14,799 less devices 816 00:32:14,799 --> 00:32:17,519 what do you think i think 817 00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:19,760 we should not buy any device that we 818 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,519 can't use for at least 15 years 819 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,399 so definitely overproduction and 820 00:32:26,399 --> 00:32:28,480 overconsumption is indeed 821 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,799 a problem 822 00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:33,440 if we are less enticed 823 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,840 to buy new products because we find a 824 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,760 myriad of ways 825 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,039 to find new uses for existing products 826 00:32:41,039 --> 00:32:44,080 the incentive is reduced now obviously 827 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,240 that's not something that happens magic 828 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:47,679 automatically 829 00:32:47,679 --> 00:32:50,240 but indeed i agree with you 830 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:51,360 by 831 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,200 reverse engineering devices hacking 832 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,519 devices repurposing devices finding new 833 00:32:55,519 --> 00:32:57,519 uses for devices 834 00:32:57,519 --> 00:32:59,919 de-incentivizes 835 00:32:59,919 --> 00:33:01,679 buying new devices 836 00:33:01,679 --> 00:33:04,480 and hopefully 837 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,120 can reduce some of the over consumption 838 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:08,840 we face 839 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,120 yeah next question again front 840 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,440 microphone yeah um 841 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,440 do you believe there's any possible 842 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,399 possibility we can return a society to a 843 00:33:18,399 --> 00:33:20,399 culture of tool use where we can 844 00:33:20,399 --> 00:33:22,960 actually sustain the way we use and make 845 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,880 tools for centuries 846 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:25,840 like 847 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,360 blacksmithing in the old days was 848 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:28,640 actually 849 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,960 sustained for several thousand years at 850 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,760 a time and it was fairly in line with 851 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,279 our natural development we're a lot less 852 00:33:35,279 --> 00:33:36,880 spread out but nowadays do you think 853 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,640 it's possible with technology at all or 854 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,600 are we on irreversible path 855 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,360 um i have to be 856 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,440 a bit pessimistic here i think we are 857 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,080 partly on irreversible path simply 858 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:51,919 because there's so many tons of waste 859 00:33:51,919 --> 00:33:52,960 you already 860 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,440 deal with 861 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,279 but i do think 862 00:33:57,279 --> 00:33:58,880 that 863 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,640 the resurgence of 864 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:07,840 anarchism as a social philosophy 865 00:34:08,079 --> 00:34:09,040 should 866 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,440 enable us to think of new ways 867 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,119 to deal with this problem 868 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,760 definitely the state and corporations 869 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,839 should have not only less power but 870 00:34:19,839 --> 00:34:23,280 should be dissolved so 871 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,560 i think we actively should 872 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,599 try and find new ways to live together 873 00:34:29,599 --> 00:34:31,199 and new way 874 00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:33,040 to produce 875 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,079 the tools we need to live 876 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,800 are there any questions from the 877 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,960 internet do we know that 878 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,800 does anyone have any 879 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,399 no 880 00:34:44,399 --> 00:34:46,000 yes no 881 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,159 good then next question from the front 882 00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:49,918 microphone please 883 00:34:49,918 --> 00:34:51,918 and maybe let another person just line 884 00:34:51,918 --> 00:34:54,319 up behind 885 00:34:57,839 --> 00:34:59,920 i'm a huge fan of civil disobedience he 886 00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:02,800 already mentioned one namely squatting 887 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,800 but maybe like and i think like in 888 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:06,560 modern anarchism there's a problem of 889 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,800 like 890 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,440 a very narrow scope of tactics to use 891 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,000 but why not for example go to an apple 892 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,560 store and occupy it so that they don't 893 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,920 cannot sell their devices 894 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,240 yes 895 00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:23,599 yeah what do you think of those kind of 896 00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:25,839 things 897 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,040 any form of direct action is very 898 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:30,880 welcome so 899 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,400 uh i'll be there to join you 900 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,520 okay next question please 901 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,960 uh well uh you you you say anarchism uh 902 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,599 can solve problems 903 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,560 in essence anarchism 904 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,320 means no laws 905 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,200 no laws at all 906 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,000 the only law is that there is no law but 907 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,560 i think there's it's necessary to have 908 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,320 regulations 909 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,920 to not export this electronic waste to 910 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,720 to countries 911 00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:10,480 which are poor and and can't 912 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,680 can't defend themselves so i think we 913 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,919 should 914 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,119 make this this electronic waste visible 915 00:36:19,119 --> 00:36:20,480 here 916 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,119 um anarchism does not mean that there 917 00:36:23,119 --> 00:36:24,640 are no laws 918 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,280 anarchism means there is no 919 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,200 um 920 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,920 overarching hierarchical 921 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:32,960 um 922 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,760 dominating force that determines how you 923 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,520 think or act 924 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,400 anarchism means mutual aid 925 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,960 anarchism means solving problems 926 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,320 together 927 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,720 i think the event we are currently in is 928 00:36:46,720 --> 00:36:48,480 actually a great example of an 929 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,480 anarchistic practice 930 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,320 everybody is volunteering and look at 931 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,800 how wonderful this event is 932 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,320 next question oh you can okay 933 00:37:03,119 --> 00:37:04,800 and if you also want to help feel free 934 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,839 to sign up but next question 935 00:37:06,839 --> 00:37:09,040 please yes 936 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:10,800 do you believe that 937 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,800 the way the way 938 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,599 all tools all equipment all devices are 939 00:37:15,599 --> 00:37:17,839 manufactured nowadays 940 00:37:17,839 --> 00:37:20,000 there's yeah they're they're never 941 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:21,440 designed to be taken apart again they're 942 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,680 never designed to be repaired but 943 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,040 culturally in the past there has been 944 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,119 more of a tendency like if you look at 945 00:37:29,119 --> 00:37:31,599 the 40s 50s 946 00:37:31,599 --> 00:37:34,640 suddenly i love test gear but 947 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,960 every part of society you could to some 948 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:38,640 large extent 949 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,560 actually repair things and 950 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,720 most materials were actually available 951 00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:44,640 to remake afterwards 952 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,720 you feel there was like a hegemonic 953 00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:48,880 change where suddenly 954 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,720 some large corporations got together 955 00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:54,160 took over and made the whole like 956 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:55,920 do you feel there was a shift at some 957 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,160 point where it became worse 958 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,240 philosophically or has it always been 959 00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:02,079 bad 960 00:38:02,079 --> 00:38:03,040 um 961 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,040 capitalism has always been bad 962 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:05,690 um 963 00:38:05,690 --> 00:38:07,040 [Music] 964 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:08,400 i think 965 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,880 i can only go by personal experience 966 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,720 i mean i'm 41 years old and for me 967 00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:16,640 what the biggest difference was 968 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,359 difference uh was was the reagan 969 00:38:19,359 --> 00:38:21,920 thatcher era of privatization and 970 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,520 globalization 971 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,480 that made things dramatically worse 972 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,119 so i would like kind of pinpoint that 973 00:38:29,119 --> 00:38:30,400 time 974 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,720 as being the start of 975 00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:33,760 um 976 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,320 an an 977 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,240 increase of problems we face 978 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:41,839 okay 979 00:38:41,839 --> 00:38:44,480 then next question please 980 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,160 very much of the hardware that we throw 981 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,240 away is thrown away because we can't 982 00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:50,000 change the software and reverse 983 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,920 engineering can help with that but it's 984 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,640 incredibly laborious 985 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,040 i am really surprised that governments 986 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,760 both know this problem of dumping waste 987 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,280 everywhere 988 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,560 and make no laws to say if you stop 989 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,800 supporting a device 990 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,520 you have to disclose everything needed 991 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,520 to build your own software on this 992 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:12,880 device 993 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,720 everything that you had available all 994 00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:17,760 the designs all the schematics all the 995 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,040 whatever all that and if i were to 996 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,880 uh provoke an action that's the 997 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,280 direction i would move it towards sorry 998 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:26,560 what did you just say i didn't hear you 999 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:27,359 i 1000 00:39:27,359 --> 00:39:29,359 if i were to set up an action i wouldn't 1001 00:39:29,359 --> 00:39:32,000 focus on an individual apple store even 1002 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,680 though that does catch the news 1003 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,160 definitely but i would also go for this 1004 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,839 to have laws in stated that say you are 1005 00:39:39,839 --> 00:39:42,880 the owner of the device also after the 1006 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:44,320 the 1007 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,640 the brand stops supporting it then you 1008 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:48,960 have the right to have the code you have 1009 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,599 the right for all the design schemata 1010 00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:53,119 yeah 1011 00:39:53,119 --> 00:39:54,320 yes 1012 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,920 i find any means by which you obtain 1013 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,560 information of devices absolutely 1014 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,480 legitimate 1015 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,680 uh so there's no bounds in that 1016 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:06,960 um 1017 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,160 and 1018 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,079 i do not think we need to ask for 1019 00:40:10,079 --> 00:40:12,000 permission 1020 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,920 we don't need permission 1021 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,560 in essence everything is public property 1022 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,400 not common 1023 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,400 property 1024 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,720 and 1025 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,839 if if these corporations 1026 00:40:25,839 --> 00:40:27,920 claim ownership of intellectual property 1027 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,040 you can simply ignore it 1028 00:40:33,839 --> 00:40:36,319 okay are there any more questions 1029 00:40:36,319 --> 00:40:38,560 someone wanting to ask something by a 1030 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,400 salon stage 1031 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,800 yes you okay back microphone please 1032 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:49,119 i um i think the previous person was 1033 00:40:49,119 --> 00:40:50,319 trying to 1034 00:40:50,319 --> 00:40:51,520 say that 1035 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,240 you don't need permission but you need 1036 00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:56,800 to go much further those companies need 1037 00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,880 to help us with all possible 1038 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,720 documentations sdks in order to bring 1039 00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:05,040 the hardware that they've sold us into 1040 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,079 whichever future life that it could have 1041 00:41:08,079 --> 00:41:11,440 so what you say is ignore their 1042 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,119 uh counter pressure 1043 00:41:13,119 --> 00:41:15,040 and what he's saying is 1044 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,599 take it ten steps further obligate them 1045 00:41:17,599 --> 00:41:21,359 to help you to build your own stuff 1046 00:41:21,359 --> 00:41:23,200 well 1047 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,200 companies are not 1048 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,680 inanimate objects they are occupied by 1049 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:28,960 people 1050 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,359 people that work there 1051 00:41:31,359 --> 00:41:32,839 and 1052 00:41:32,839 --> 00:41:37,359 um these people are perfectly uh capable 1053 00:41:37,359 --> 00:41:40,319 of sharing information with the public 1054 00:41:40,319 --> 00:41:42,079 they should simply be incentivized to do 1055 00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:44,160 so 1056 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:45,200 right 1057 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:46,079 the 1058 00:41:46,079 --> 00:41:48,160 corporations are not entities they are 1059 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:49,359 not 1060 00:41:49,359 --> 00:41:50,880 impenetrable 1061 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,800 they are occupied by people people like 1062 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,280 you and me 1063 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:57,040 and 1064 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:58,960 what is required is that people 1065 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:00,160 understand 1066 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,400 the importance of this issue so they 1067 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,960 take matters in their own hands 1068 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,640 that's it that's all we need to do 1069 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,160 yes you may answer 1070 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:15,119 i think 1071 00:42:15,119 --> 00:42:16,400 then you're 1072 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:17,599 too passive 1073 00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:19,760 because that's passive yeah yes that is 1074 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:20,880 passive 1075 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:22,480 you know what how does that pass if i if 1076 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:23,520 i ask 1077 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,359 somebody at apple say hey could you give 1078 00:42:25,359 --> 00:42:26,960 me the schematics please let's be 1079 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,160 friends 1080 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:29,599 how is that passive 1081 00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:32,720 if i go if i go to the protectors of 1082 00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:35,280 private ownership the government 1083 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:36,640 and i said would you could you please 1084 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,119 ask them to give me your 1085 00:42:39,119 --> 00:42:41,200 to give me their schematics what do you 1086 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:42,800 think they're gonna say they're there to 1087 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,040 protect the corporations 1088 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,599 okay true if you you that's not that's 1089 00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:50,240 asking for your point you say that 1090 00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:52,960 if we if we don't get the government to 1091 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,359 do the plan that i presented or that 1092 00:42:55,359 --> 00:42:57,040 actually the other we don't need the 1093 00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,359 government but it would be so much 1094 00:42:59,359 --> 00:43:01,599 better if we turn the government in such 1095 00:43:01,599 --> 00:43:03,680 a way that they actually start helping 1096 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:04,400 us 1097 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,920 now that's gonna take ages i agree 1098 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,400 this is gonna be a horrible fight but 1099 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,640 that should be the long-term aim 1100 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,440 how to get there that's the difficulty 1101 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,079 i think that's i think personally i find 1102 00:43:18,079 --> 00:43:20,640 your perspective to be too complacent 1103 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:22,560 you are expecting people that represent 1104 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,800 themselves as protectors of the public 1105 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:26,800 which they are not 1106 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,760 to help you they will not 1107 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:30,800 there are 1108 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,319 decades of environmental movements and 1109 00:43:34,319 --> 00:43:35,680 and activities 1110 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,520 that that environmental movements have 1111 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:38,640 done 1112 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,319 in the hope to change policy what has 1113 00:43:40,319 --> 00:43:42,400 that brought us 1114 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,720 right we just had a heat wave 1115 00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:47,520 australia is on fire what 1116 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,839 how much lobbying do you want to do 1117 00:43:49,839 --> 00:43:51,280 like 1118 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,400 okay so um and you have a question yes 1119 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,040 next question please and from microphone 1120 00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,440 well i guess it's more of like a 1121 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,319 discussion by now but on tactics and 1122 00:44:02,319 --> 00:44:04,240 strategies like and the tactic is 1123 00:44:04,240 --> 00:44:06,000 occupying or well i'm not saying you 1124 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:07,200 should petition anything you should 1125 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,119 occupy them and demand whatever we want 1126 00:44:09,119 --> 00:44:12,720 to demand like i think a good start is 1127 00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:14,640 as other said 1128 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:16,240 open source hardware 1129 00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:19,520 open source software et cetera 1130 00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,400 maybe in the overlarging ideological 1131 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,119 framework i think there are for example 1132 00:44:25,119 --> 00:44:27,760 anarchists in argentina who say you need 1133 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,240 to expand the floor of the cage the 1134 00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:32,000 government is a cage but you need to 1135 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,319 expand the floor of it before you're 1136 00:44:34,319 --> 00:44:35,920 able to fight the big monsters the 1137 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:37,440 corporations 1138 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:38,240 so 1139 00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:41,599 we do need some in in between steps i 1140 00:44:41,599 --> 00:44:43,520 would say and i think i agree on for 1141 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:45,280 example making like 1142 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,200 everything like a common commonly 1143 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:48,400 licensed 1144 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:49,280 uh 1145 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,280 yeah and then you can think of tactics 1146 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,280 around it but yeah i would say it's it's 1147 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,079 not enough to only hack it's you have to 1148 00:44:56,079 --> 00:44:57,839 also force 1149 00:44:57,839 --> 00:44:59,359 force the the government and the 1150 00:44:59,359 --> 00:45:02,640 corporations force them by 1151 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,400 by yeah by 1152 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,440 well out tactics wealth out our tactics 1153 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,760 that that you get what you want yeah i 1154 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:11,839 think that is inherently an 1155 00:45:11,839 --> 00:45:13,599 unanarchistic way of dealing with the 1156 00:45:13,599 --> 00:45:14,560 issue 1157 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,960 um the the the um the 1158 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,839 the way to you know there are no 1159 00:45:21,839 --> 00:45:23,839 barriers all of these barriers are 1160 00:45:23,839 --> 00:45:26,000 simply cognitive right 1161 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,960 there the the the government and 1162 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,560 corporations have no 1163 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,800 legitimacy 1164 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,640 their legitimacy is upheld by our belief 1165 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,200 that they should exist 1166 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,240 right that is the problem 1167 00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:45,599 simply 1168 00:45:45,599 --> 00:45:48,000 acting as if you're free which is what 1169 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,400 direct action is 1170 00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:54,880 um you achieve a lot more goals 1171 00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,280 than by acknowledging their existence 1172 00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:58,880 and trying to move along the paths 1173 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,440 they've laid out for you 1174 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,680 you are already free 1175 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,760 all you need to do is act 1176 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,400 as this is probably more of a discussion 1177 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,240 than a answer question but thanks for 1178 00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:14,880 your question maybe you could take it 1179 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:16,640 outside after the talk if that's all 1180 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:18,319 right for you perhaps i don't i don't 1181 00:46:18,319 --> 00:46:20,640 think our points of view collides but 1182 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,240 thanks yeah 1183 00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:23,839 thanks for asking the question 1184 00:46:23,839 --> 00:46:26,640 and are there any more questions 1185 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:28,960 yes feel free to use the microphone in 1186 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,359 the front 1187 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,079 so would you call right to repair an 1188 00:46:34,079 --> 00:46:36,319 annika's movement or did it start off as 1189 00:46:36,319 --> 00:46:38,319 one and became more of a 1190 00:46:38,319 --> 00:46:39,599 we get the government to change the 1191 00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:42,640 rules sort of movement because in a lot 1192 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:44,319 of ways right to repair did start out 1193 00:46:44,319 --> 00:46:45,760 that way because it was just people 1194 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:47,839 forcibly getting the schematics through 1195 00:46:47,839 --> 00:46:49,920 their friends and things and now it's 1196 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:51,920 more of a political movement that is on 1197 00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:53,359 the public stage for everyone to see so 1198 00:46:53,359 --> 00:46:56,240 what do you think about writer repair 1199 00:46:56,240 --> 00:46:59,680 um about so about uh 1200 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,119 12 years ago or so i was part of 1201 00:47:03,119 --> 00:47:04,319 a 1202 00:47:04,319 --> 00:47:05,760 hacker group 1203 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:07,280 in amsterdam 1204 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,480 and we used to have um we used to 1205 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,119 receive stockpiles of hardware 1206 00:47:13,119 --> 00:47:15,280 from people that used to work at 1207 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,240 companies uh on hardware companies and 1208 00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:20,079 telecommunications companies 1209 00:47:20,079 --> 00:47:21,359 and we would 1210 00:47:21,359 --> 00:47:23,440 reflash all of those devices repair them 1211 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,359 and just give them away to everybody who 1212 00:47:25,359 --> 00:47:26,400 needed them 1213 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,359 so indeed like right to repair sounds 1214 00:47:29,359 --> 00:47:30,960 like it started in that environment 1215 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:32,960 right 1216 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,000 i do currently feel that the excessive 1217 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,160 lobbying and asking for permission is 1218 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,839 antithetical to its to its origins 1219 00:47:41,839 --> 00:47:44,559 so i agree there yeah 1220 00:47:44,559 --> 00:47:45,760 okay 1221 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,800 i think that's it so please give an last 1222 00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,040 round of applause for him 1223 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,839 thank you very much 1224 00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,239 [Music]