1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:17,400
thanks better

2
00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:23,259
[Music]

3
00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,769
[Music]

4
00:00:37,950 --> 00:00:50,030
[Music]

5
00:00:50,030 --> 00:00:52,100
[Applause]

6
00:00:52,100 --> 00:00:57,850
[Music]

7
00:01:00,079 --> 00:01:02,160
hello welcome back i am patrick tucker

8
00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,000
technology editor at defence one our

9
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:05,040
next panel is

10
00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,520
titans of technology winning the future

11
00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:08,640
of defense

12
00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,760
joining me is emmanuel brasson advisor

13
00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:12,000
for

14
00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,240
cyber ai and disruptive technologies

15
00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,640
within the french ministry of armies

16
00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:18,560
in the directorate general for

17
00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:20,400
international relations and strategy

18
00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,799
and dr heather roth senior research

19
00:01:22,799 --> 00:01:24,799
analyst at the johns hopkins university

20
00:01:24,799 --> 00:01:27,040
applied physics lab welcome to you both

21
00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,280
uh quick reminder to our audience we do

22
00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,200
want to hear from you we're very anxious

23
00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:31,520
to

24
00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:32,720
incorporate your questions into our

25
00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,119
programming today use the globe sec app

26
00:01:35,119 --> 00:01:37,119
to send us questions and i'll be able to

27
00:01:37,119 --> 00:01:39,439
see them here uh later on i might uh

28
00:01:39,439 --> 00:01:41,759
ask the room if they have questions

29
00:01:41,759 --> 00:01:42,880
please raise your hand and then i'll

30
00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:44,000
call on you and then you can approach

31
00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:45,680
the microphone uh

32
00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,000
so please keep that in mind we do want

33
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:48,880
to hear from you

34
00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,079
let's okay

35
00:01:52,079 --> 00:01:54,640
uh one second uh emmanuel can you hear

36
00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,200
me okay

37
00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,000
let manuel fix this sound problem real

38
00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,520
quick let me turn

39
00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,758
instead to you heather real quick how

40
00:02:09,758 --> 00:02:11,760
can the international community

41
00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,239
strengthen the regulatory framework when

42
00:02:14,239 --> 00:02:16,000
it comes to the ethical use

43
00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:20,319
of ai in theater operations

44
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,040
thank you pat and thank you everyone for

45
00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:24,080
it

46
00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:25,920
i'm very honored to be asked to be here

47
00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:27,360
today and i just want to let you know

48
00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:28,640
that i'm speaking in my personal

49
00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:29,440
capacity

50
00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,239
so these are uh personal opinions they

51
00:02:32,239 --> 00:02:33,200
do not represent

52
00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,360
um johns hopkins or the department of

53
00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,280
defense or anybody else or brookings or

54
00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,120
anybody else

55
00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,920
um i think one of the big things about

56
00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:42,959
strengthening

57
00:02:42,959 --> 00:02:46,080
ethical implications around ai in

58
00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:47,280
theater operations

59
00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,959
even when tactical operations

60
00:02:50,959 --> 00:02:53,760
um joint operations i mean any really

61
00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,680
any operations generally

62
00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,080
um is that we have to start with the

63
00:02:58,080 --> 00:02:59,760
technology and we have to start with

64
00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:00,239
worse

65
00:03:00,239 --> 00:03:03,519
warfighter center design um

66
00:03:03,519 --> 00:03:07,120
so when we're thinking about how to best

67
00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,480
research design develop deploy um

68
00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,360
we have to think about what the exact

69
00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:14,400
technology is

70
00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,280
is going to be used for and then uphold

71
00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,040
certain types of principles so

72
00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:20,879
the u.s department of defense for

73
00:03:20,879 --> 00:03:22,800
example has adopted a set of five

74
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:24,720
ethical principles

75
00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,080
um governable responsible equitable

76
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:29,840
um there is a there's a variety of

77
00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,159
things that are

78
00:03:32,159 --> 00:03:34,640
that are that are in that um and a lot

79
00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:36,560
of that have to do with

80
00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,239
designing for traceability and

81
00:03:38,239 --> 00:03:40,480
auditability ensuring that

82
00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,360
warfighters are center to design and

83
00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:44,400
deployment

84
00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,280
um and that human responsibility is at

85
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:47,920
the core

86
00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,440
of all operations and so i think when

87
00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:52,879
we're thinking about how we

88
00:03:52,879 --> 00:03:57,680
deploy ai within defense of operations

89
00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,480
we have to think about what the ai is

90
00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,159
intended to do

91
00:04:02,159 --> 00:04:04,640
is it a decision aid is it an isr

92
00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:05,840
application

93
00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,400
is it a strike application do we have

94
00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,239
the right kind of data is the data

95
00:04:10,239 --> 00:04:12,239
properly curated

96
00:04:12,239 --> 00:04:15,040
do we have uh appropriate testing

97
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,120
evaluation verification validation

98
00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,040
regimes in place to ensure that those

99
00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,199
systems are working as intended

100
00:04:21,199 --> 00:04:24,400
do we have some way to observe those

101
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,320
applications as they're deployed to

102
00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,320
ensure that they are

103
00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,280
working within the bound of intended use

104
00:04:31,280 --> 00:04:32,880
the boundaries of intended use and that

105
00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:33,919
they are not learning

106
00:04:33,919 --> 00:04:36,960
behaviors outside of those um that

107
00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:38,400
intended use scope

108
00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,440
do we have some measure of auditability

109
00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,120
how do we how do we train and equip

110
00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:48,479
officers and operators to

111
00:04:48,479 --> 00:04:51,520
continually understand those systems

112
00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,040
how do we certify and license

113
00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,240
autonomous technologies um to ensure

114
00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,000
that their lifetime use

115
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,120
is is in accordance with what we want

116
00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:03,840
them to do

117
00:05:03,840 --> 00:05:05,919
and and that they are not learning um

118
00:05:05,919 --> 00:05:08,080
unintended behaviors outside of that

119
00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,440
so this is a very big endeavor

120
00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,240
that that really spans doctrine

121
00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:15,280
organization

122
00:05:15,280 --> 00:05:19,120
training logistics design development

123
00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,919
um this is a huge endeavor that i think

124
00:05:21,919 --> 00:05:24,240
all militaries really have to

125
00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,320
to take into consideration from

126
00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,720
everything from policy to

127
00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,759
how many maintainers um you need

128
00:05:31,759 --> 00:05:34,560
for a given platform and what types of

129
00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,520
training those individuals need

130
00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,840
how you train lawyers and

131
00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:44,240
judge advocate generals to ensure that

132
00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:45,440
they are making appropriate

133
00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,840
proportionality calculations

134
00:05:47,840 --> 00:05:49,759
and understanding the implications of

135
00:05:49,759 --> 00:05:51,680
using particular assets in the use of

136
00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:53,199
armed force

137
00:05:53,199 --> 00:05:55,680
this is this is not a one-shot problem

138
00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:56,319
this is a

139
00:05:56,319 --> 00:05:58,560
huge problem that all militaries are

140
00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,880
ultimately going to have to

141
00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:02,639
spend a great deal of time thinking

142
00:06:02,639 --> 00:06:04,000
through

143
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,479
so in in covering this space uh one

144
00:06:06,479 --> 00:06:08,160
thing that's been very clear to me and

145
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:09,360
to a lot of other people that are

146
00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:10,560
watching the effects of emerging

147
00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,800
technology on military technology

148
00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,080
uh is the accelerating effects

149
00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,000
of things like machine learning and big

150
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:19,600
data on the pace of

151
00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,639
operations potentially on the pace of

152
00:06:22,639 --> 00:06:23,520
warfare

153
00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,479
and that seems to put a lot of potential

154
00:06:26,479 --> 00:06:28,800
future stress on commanders

155
00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,000
and others to make decisions ever faster

156
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:32,840
with an ever

157
00:06:32,840 --> 00:06:35,600
shrinking uh observe orient decide an

158
00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,280
act or ooda loop cycle

159
00:06:37,280 --> 00:06:40,880
so uh having an ai principles list at

160
00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:42,479
the department of defense is a huge

161
00:06:42,479 --> 00:06:43,199
accomplishment

162
00:06:43,199 --> 00:06:45,039
it's uh i think something that

163
00:06:45,039 --> 00:06:47,199
international allies are very excited to

164
00:06:47,199 --> 00:06:48,240
see

165
00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,440
but is that sufficient to your mind to

166
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:52,560
deal with

167
00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,120
the threat posed by accelerated

168
00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:56,160
operations

169
00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,280
due to the advent of new technologies

170
00:06:59,280 --> 00:07:01,039
like machine learning is having

171
00:07:01,039 --> 00:07:04,720
a principles list enough to offset

172
00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,400
the potential harm there

173
00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,160
well no you you can't just have a

174
00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,000
principles list and say job done

175
00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,880
right um what really matters is the

176
00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:18,960
application and the institutionalization

177
00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:19,520
of those

178
00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,639
principles um the joint ai center within

179
00:07:22,639 --> 00:07:24,000
the dod right now

180
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,800
is is working very hard on figuring out

181
00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:28,000
the ways in which

182
00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,039
they are instituting those principles

183
00:07:31,039 --> 00:07:33,520
um again like so go back going back to

184
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,520
testing and evaluation for example like

185
00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:36,960
what does that look like

186
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,319
um you know we don't have a very robust

187
00:07:40,319 --> 00:07:41,680
testing regime for

188
00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,840
for machine learning systems right we

189
00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:45,759
can't exhaustively test

190
00:07:45,759 --> 00:07:48,720
the space of machine learning we can do

191
00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,960
simulations we can try to find edge

192
00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:51,919
cases

193
00:07:51,919 --> 00:07:55,199
but in reality we can't fully test these

194
00:07:55,199 --> 00:07:56,960
systems like we have tested

195
00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,080
prior previous legacy systems and so

196
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,840
there's a there's a fundamental shift

197
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:02,560
there

198
00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:04,800
um but i think you know even with the

199
00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:06,800
speeding up of operations

200
00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:08,879
there is there is an inherent limit

201
00:08:08,879 --> 00:08:10,240
right i mean

202
00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,479
we are talking about i mean cyber is one

203
00:08:12,479 --> 00:08:14,400
thing we can talk about cyber and how

204
00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:14,879
that

205
00:08:14,879 --> 00:08:18,560
um is a bit of a different space but

206
00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:20,560
when it comes to physical operations

207
00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:21,840
right we we are still

208
00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,599
limited by time space

209
00:08:25,599 --> 00:08:28,000
logistics you know how many how many

210
00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:29,199
worships do i have

211
00:08:29,199 --> 00:08:31,919
um in an area how many planes do i need

212
00:08:31,919 --> 00:08:32,799
to

213
00:08:32,799 --> 00:08:34,399
to complete a mission what does my

214
00:08:34,399 --> 00:08:36,640
resupply line look like

215
00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,200
how do i do joint operations with nato

216
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:40,000
right how do i

217
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:41,919
do my coms lines how do i divide air

218
00:08:41,919 --> 00:08:43,599
space there are limits

219
00:08:43,599 --> 00:08:47,839
um to operations given the physical

220
00:08:47,839 --> 00:08:50,880
constraints of warfare

221
00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,519
but we do have a huge amount of data

222
00:08:53,519 --> 00:08:54,959
that's coming in

223
00:08:54,959 --> 00:08:59,200
um we are pretty much

224
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:00,959
observed all the time i mean when we

225
00:09:00,959 --> 00:09:02,560
think about about

226
00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:06,240
uh space assets and isr uh there's just

227
00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,160
you know your adversary can see you all

228
00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,720
the time and what you're doing and what

229
00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,120
movements you're planning um and so that

230
00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:14,959
becomes its own challenge

231
00:09:14,959 --> 00:09:18,000
um but what i would say is that

232
00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,320
you know the the ooda loop is speeding

233
00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:21,120
up

234
00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,399
but it can only speed up on the quality

235
00:09:24,399 --> 00:09:26,560
of data just because you have data

236
00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:28,560
doesn't mean that it's useful

237
00:09:28,560 --> 00:09:30,800
it has to be curated it has to be

238
00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:32,320
appropriate for

239
00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,680
the mission it has to be representative

240
00:09:35,680 --> 00:09:37,839
of your adversary's intentions or

241
00:09:37,839 --> 00:09:39,760
beliefs or assets

242
00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,519
and when we're in warfare you know

243
00:09:43,519 --> 00:09:45,279
your adversary is not going to tell you

244
00:09:45,279 --> 00:09:47,519
exactly what they're going to do

245
00:09:47,519 --> 00:09:50,320
they have incentives to dissemble they

246
00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:50,800
haven't

247
00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,839
they have incentives to use ruses

248
00:09:53,839 --> 00:09:56,080
um and so the data that we're getting is

249
00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,480
not clean it is not perfect

250
00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,839
um and even with massive amounts of it

251
00:10:01,839 --> 00:10:04,560
uh we there's a lot of noise in that

252
00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:05,920
data

253
00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:07,760
let me turn to you emanuel uh thank you

254
00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,680
for joining us the same question

255
00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:11,279
on the one hand we know that artificial

256
00:10:11,279 --> 00:10:13,360
intelligence and emergency technologies

257
00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,360
are going to be a force multiplier

258
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,120
they're going to allow militaries to

259
00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:17,760
have

260
00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:19,839
much greater effect with fewer assets at

261
00:10:19,839 --> 00:10:21,839
the same time they also contribute to an

262
00:10:21,839 --> 00:10:23,920
accelerating pace of operations

263
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:26,000
which can be uh very difficult for

264
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,160
commanders particularly commanders

265
00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,360
that live and operate in societies

266
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,600
where there's a strong sense of uh

267
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:34,720
government accountability

268
00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:36,720
command and control and where individual

269
00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:38,560
officers are held accountable for their

270
00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:39,760
actions as opposed to

271
00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:41,519
uh other types of governments so can you

272
00:10:41,519 --> 00:10:43,600
describe a little bit of that friction

273
00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,160
from your perspective uh from a military

274
00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:47,120
perspective how

275
00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,440
on the one hand do you use technology

276
00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:50,560
like ai

277
00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:53,200
to be a force multiplier to have as

278
00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:54,959
maximal effect on the battlefield as

279
00:10:54,959 --> 00:10:57,040
possible while at the same time

280
00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,680
allowing commanders to deal with the

281
00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:03,519
accelerated pace of operations

282
00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,600
can you hear me yes we do

283
00:11:07,870 --> 00:11:09,440
[Music]

284
00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,120
within the ministry of defense we have

285
00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:12,959
identified a

286
00:11:12,959 --> 00:11:16,240
number of fees where the embedding of

287
00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,640
artificial intelligence can help in

288
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,839
this multiplying effect that you just

289
00:11:21,839 --> 00:11:23,680
described

290
00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:25,360
whatever it's of the battlefield

291
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,760
whatever it's in the cyber space for

292
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,279
intelligence information whatever it's

293
00:11:31,279 --> 00:11:33,279
on the materials for logistics

294
00:11:33,279 --> 00:11:34,560
maintenance

295
00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:38,640
uh on the medical for rescue evacuation

296
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,720
and so on

297
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,240
and uh of course uh uh don't forget

298
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,200
the the the i should say the masterpiece

299
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:48,480
of all these fields

300
00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,079
uh which is the uh the the actions of uh

301
00:11:52,079 --> 00:11:56,639
planifications decision makings and uh

302
00:11:56,639 --> 00:11:59,760
situation awareness in all these

303
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:01,920
in all these domains the artificial

304
00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:02,880
intelligence

305
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,160
is uh is a factor of uh

306
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,800
accelerate acceleration uh

307
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:10,000
multiplication of

308
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,760
efficiency and uh improvement of the

309
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:15,200
precision

310
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,560
uh meaning with this

311
00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:20,639
taking better decision taking more

312
00:12:20,639 --> 00:12:22,639
precise decision or at the

313
00:12:22,639 --> 00:12:25,680
at the better moment or

314
00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:28,160
calibrating more appropriately the

315
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,079
resources and the materials you need

316
00:12:30,079 --> 00:12:33,360
in the on the field

317
00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,040
of course embedding such

318
00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,040
algorithms and artificial intelligence

319
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,200
and data everywhere can lead to

320
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,320
increased complexity for the commandment

321
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,240
this is also one of the reasons for

322
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:47,760
which we have

323
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,360
identified the uh as other

324
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,800
critical uh as a criteria of

325
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,680
critical importance to uh to remain

326
00:12:57,680 --> 00:12:59,040
within

327
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,079
a rigorous chain of commands when uh

328
00:13:02,079 --> 00:13:03,760
performing the operations

329
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:06,800
and in particular uh the question of

330
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,560
uh maintaining at at every moment and

331
00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:13,600
at every level a sufficient uh

332
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:18,000
human control on all these operations

333
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,639
uh excellent let's go to zoom and take a

334
00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:22,320
question from jim townsend in the united

335
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,639
states

336
00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,320
hello everyone uh this is jim townsend

337
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,120
uh just a sound check can you hear me

338
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,480
i hear you good uh well thank you very

339
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,399
much i found both of those

340
00:13:38,399 --> 00:13:41,040
uh presentations absolutely fascinating

341
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:41,839
uh

342
00:13:41,839 --> 00:13:44,720
i uh my background is i've spent about

343
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,680
35 years working nato and europe

344
00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:50,720
at the pentagon so i i'm not a technical

345
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:51,120
guy

346
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,680
but you've got to keep track with

347
00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:55,279
technology particularly dealing with

348
00:13:55,279 --> 00:13:56,399
nato

349
00:13:56,399 --> 00:13:58,079
and make sure there's interoperability

350
00:13:58,079 --> 00:14:00,959
and that's my question for both of you

351
00:14:00,959 --> 00:14:03,360
nato yesterday uh this heads of state

352
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,680
and government agreed to establish

353
00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:09,519
uh an innovate an innovation accelerator

354
00:14:09,519 --> 00:14:12,880
which is a great name uh as because

355
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:13,360
they're

356
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,240
concerned the alliance that um that nato

357
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,639
allies keep on top of the technology

358
00:14:18,639 --> 00:14:20,959
changes and i know some allies are

359
00:14:20,959 --> 00:14:23,760
uh but what does this mean for you what

360
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:25,440
how do you coordinate with nato

361
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:26,160
yourselves

362
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,399
uh dod i mean i worked in the pentagon

363
00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:29,519
for many years

364
00:14:29,519 --> 00:14:32,480
there is some coordination with nato

365
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,320
through the regional offices there and a

366
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,000
little bit on the acquisition side but

367
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,440
on the tech side

368
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,160
um with this uh this new innovation

369
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:41,279
there's also a fund

370
00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:43,440
that nato is going to put towards r d

371
00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:44,480
and tech

372
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,399
uh how are you going to negotiate how

373
00:14:46,399 --> 00:14:47,760
are you going to uh

374
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,240
to inter-operate and to to communicate

375
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:51,040
and to

376
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:52,959
coordinate with what nato is doing as an

377
00:14:52,959 --> 00:14:54,399
institution

378
00:14:54,399 --> 00:14:56,000
and what nato allies are going to be

379
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,920
doing individually or we can be doing

380
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,160
things in stove pipes

381
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,279
thanks i'll take that to you emanuel

382
00:15:03,279 --> 00:15:04,399
first

383
00:15:04,399 --> 00:15:08,399
oh and then and then heather yeah

384
00:15:08,399 --> 00:15:10,399
okay thanks uh this is a very

385
00:15:10,399 --> 00:15:12,240
interesting questions

386
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,160
how should allies coordinate with uh

387
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,800
between them and at the alliance level

388
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:19,360
to

389
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,160
uh incorporate and to take the best uh

390
00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,399
the better the best advantage of

391
00:15:24,399 --> 00:15:28,399
such technologies uh so first of all i

392
00:15:28,399 --> 00:15:29,199
should say that

393
00:15:29,199 --> 00:15:33,120
uh the the most important thing is to

394
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,560
to understand ourselves mutually uh on

395
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,240
uh what we're talking about

396
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,440
it looks like basics but in case of uh

397
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,639
usage responsible use of artificial

398
00:15:46,639 --> 00:15:48,240
intelligence and especially in the

399
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,279
defense sector in the military domain

400
00:15:51,279 --> 00:15:54,800
this is extremely important

401
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,040
because we know that the the the limits

402
00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:57,920
are not

403
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,959
easy to not uh not easy to define

404
00:16:00,959 --> 00:16:04,079
and to uh i would say to translate

405
00:16:04,079 --> 00:16:06,839
into concrete actions programs and

406
00:16:06,839 --> 00:16:08,399
developments uh

407
00:16:08,399 --> 00:16:10,320
also about the developments and the the

408
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,360
military program one of the

409
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,560
question i i think is still to to be on

410
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:17,600
the table

411
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,240
is that these technologies whatever we

412
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,560
we talk about uh ai in itself

413
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,759
or our other

414
00:16:25,759 --> 00:16:28,880
disruptive technologies uh the point is

415
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,160
that these technologies are

416
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,279
uh uh inherently dual

417
00:16:33,279 --> 00:16:36,639
uh dual civil and military

418
00:16:36,639 --> 00:16:39,920
which means that we have to decide uh uh

419
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,639
between between a member of the alliance

420
00:16:42,639 --> 00:16:43,440
what will be

421
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,839
uh to be uh to to be led by the alliance

422
00:16:47,839 --> 00:16:50,000
either the military alliance

423
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:51,920
and well as to be developed and under

424
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,519
the responsibility of

425
00:16:53,519 --> 00:16:57,759
of states i think this is

426
00:16:57,759 --> 00:17:00,399
important especially when we when we

427
00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:01,600
talk

428
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,880
about making use of these technologies

429
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:06,480
in a military context

430
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,599
in a context of of uh potential uh

431
00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:12,160
conflicts when we have a command

432
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,000
reference which is the application

433
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,280
the application of the existing uh

434
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,400
international human humanitarian law

435
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,720
for which we have to uh to think of

436
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:24,160
course on how

437
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:28,400
and how concretely and by which means

438
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,720
the ihl can apply to the to the military

439
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,039
use of these technologies

440
00:17:35,039 --> 00:17:38,240
heather you yeah i

441
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:39,679
jim thank you that was a wonderful

442
00:17:39,679 --> 00:17:41,440
question um i think there's

443
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,919
multiple ways in which nato and the

444
00:17:43,919 --> 00:17:44,960
alliances

445
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,120
um and not just nato i think even for

446
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:49,760
the us case and dod the five eyes

447
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,320
um i think there's there's a there's a

448
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,400
lot of things that need to be worked out

449
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,120
and one of the the i think most pressing

450
00:17:57,120 --> 00:17:57,600
things

451
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,160
and one of the most uh big elephants in

452
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:01,440
the room is that

453
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:03,120
you know even though that we're gonna

454
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:05,280
start using ai and different types of

455
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:06,559
applications

456
00:18:06,559 --> 00:18:08,720
um and different militaries are gonna

457
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:09,760
use different a

458
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:11,440
different types of systems because of

459
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,360
their of their national defense posture

460
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:14,880
so we can think of

461
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,520
you know britain might be leaning more

462
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:18,080
into

463
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,720
naval operations the u.s might be trying

464
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:21,600
to do more

465
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,480
um ai and autonomy applications at the

466
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,240
get-go within the air force

467
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:27,760
and so there's going to be kind of

468
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,360
there's going to be variation between

469
00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:31,440
the the member states about what types

470
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:32,880
of applications that they're going to

471
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,799
pursue and then develop

472
00:18:34,799 --> 00:18:36,480
and then deploy within their own

473
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:37,840
militaries

474
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,960
but we are also always hamstrung by our

475
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:42,960
networks and our communications

476
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,760
and so you know until we can figure out

477
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:46,960
a better way to do

478
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:48,240
those types of networks and

479
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,559
communications and interoperability

480
00:18:50,559 --> 00:18:53,679
between members um and train we have to

481
00:18:53,679 --> 00:18:55,280
train with our members

482
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,320
um these are these are going to

483
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,720
the legacy systems are going to always

484
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,160
hamstring

485
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,559
the new systems right we are not going

486
00:19:04,559 --> 00:19:05,280
to

487
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,600
um kind of overturn the apple cart and

488
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,120
say everything's new

489
00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:10,480
everything's not new we're going to

490
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,559
still have link 16 we're still going to

491
00:19:12,559 --> 00:19:14,320
have different types of communication

492
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:15,120
systems

493
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:17,280
that we have to work with we're still

494
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,039
going to have to divide air space in in

495
00:19:19,039 --> 00:19:20,400
such a way

496
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,480
so you know my patriot battery is going

497
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,000
to be over here and you know

498
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,440
your missile defense system is going to

499
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,000
be over there and so

500
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,080
i think we we have to continually think

501
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:31,200
about how we

502
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,200
we train and we and we equip our

503
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:34,320
fighters now

504
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,720
and then how we feather in these new

505
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,000
types of systems into

506
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,200
our existing uh forced postures and then

507
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:42,559
what types of missions that they are

508
00:19:42,559 --> 00:19:44,160
going to be appropriate for

509
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,039
and to and to emmanuel's um you know

510
00:19:47,039 --> 00:19:48,000
points

511
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,720
you know yes ihl is is an overriding

512
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:51,440
concern

513
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,760
right we were we are not going to field

514
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,000
systems that are indiscriminate

515
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,240
um that do not um comply with with the

516
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:01,840
laws of armed conflict

517
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,799
um but how we prove that they are

518
00:20:04,799 --> 00:20:05,760
discriminate

519
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:07,679
how we prove that we have sufficiently

520
00:20:07,679 --> 00:20:09,039
tested them

521
00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:11,600
um is going to start to shift and going

522
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,440
to start to change because

523
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,039
of the way in which these systems

524
00:20:15,039 --> 00:20:16,480
operate they're they're fundamentally

525
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:17,520
different so

526
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,480
i think as we are rolling out new um

527
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:22,000
applications and new

528
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,640
platforms that utilize ai we're gonna

529
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,400
not just see these as machine learning

530
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:27,520
systems that

531
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,600
you know are just learning all the time

532
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:30,799
no we're going to put

533
00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:33,280
systems that have a hybrid architecture

534
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:34,880
out that have different types of

535
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,320
governors on them

536
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,559
you know that um that are not machine

537
00:20:38,559 --> 00:20:40,000
learning all the way down right that are

538
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:41,679
going to have expert based systems that

539
00:20:41,679 --> 00:20:42,960
we can fully

540
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,240
uh test and validate that you know

541
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,159
ground collision avoidance systems

542
00:20:48,159 --> 00:20:49,440
they're going to have geo-fencing

543
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:50,480
there's there's just going to be a

544
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:51,120
different

545
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:54,640
um kind of stepwise approach to how we

546
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:55,760
how we feather those in

547
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,679
and and the allies within nato are going

548
00:20:57,679 --> 00:20:59,919
to have to just be much more robust and

549
00:20:59,919 --> 00:21:01,840
transparent about

550
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:03,840
what those systems are able to do and

551
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:05,120
how they've tested them and their

552
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:06,640
communications networks and how they

553
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:07,919
train with them

554
00:21:07,919 --> 00:21:10,880
um it's just going to be even harder for

555
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:12,559
for allies to do that

556
00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:15,280
going forward because it's it's not the

557
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,120
same old technology that i can say this

558
00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:18,559
bomb is going to explode

559
00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:20,480
in this location at this time every

560
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,159
single time i drop it it's it's going to

561
00:21:22,159 --> 00:21:24,559
be it's a behavioral shift

562
00:21:24,559 --> 00:21:26,640
more technologies more challenges in

563
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,880
that interoperability space for allies a

564
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,080
very important point

565
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,120
uh new question coming in from zun

566
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:36,480
from maurizio michoulan from mexico

567
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,000
maurizio hello

568
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,400
great to be here and and very very

569
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,080
interesting discussion

570
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,600
from mexico uh let me ask you this we

571
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,880
we have been hearing from

572
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,480
uh from these issues since long ago we

573
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:55,919
have been reflecting

574
00:21:55,919 --> 00:21:59,039
on the ethics of artificial intelligence

575
00:21:59,039 --> 00:22:00,559
since i remember

576
00:22:00,559 --> 00:22:04,159
however we are subject to artificial

577
00:22:04,159 --> 00:22:07,520
intelligence mechanisms when we use our

578
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,840
cell phones or our computers

579
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,799
every day just to get profit from

580
00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:13,360
different

581
00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:17,039
companies so how how serious

582
00:22:17,039 --> 00:22:20,000
is this reflection when we speak about

583
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,039
national interests when we speak about

584
00:22:23,039 --> 00:22:26,240
enemies when we speak about uh

585
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,600
interests and agendas how how

586
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,960
how should we approach this in

587
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,840
war scenarios that are happening in the

588
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:36,640
world

589
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,679
uh every day what what would you

590
00:22:39,679 --> 00:22:43,600
what would be your approach to this

591
00:22:44,159 --> 00:22:47,440
manual yeah

592
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,480
thank you very much this is a

593
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,720
very important question in the sense

594
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:53,760
that

595
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,799
we are talking about uh what especially

596
00:22:56,799 --> 00:22:59,600
what we should do or not do and what our

597
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,240
potential adversaries

598
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,340
would allow to to themselves to do

599
00:23:05,340 --> 00:23:07,840
[Music]

600
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,120
our goal is to uh to stay within the

601
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:14,559
uh strong ethics in our in our actions

602
00:23:14,559 --> 00:23:18,000
and in our use of these technologies

603
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,200
so basically we want to uh to maintain

604
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,440
a core of uh of a fundamental principle

605
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,480
uh uh i took previously about the

606
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:29,440
respect of the

607
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,600
international humanitarian law the

608
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,280
respect of the chain of command

609
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,120
and the uh the the the the fight of

610
00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:39,840
having a sufficient human control at

611
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:40,559
every level

612
00:23:40,559 --> 00:23:43,380
and at every moment

613
00:23:43,380 --> 00:23:45,840
[Music]

614
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,960
giving this principle we have to uh to

615
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,960
build on uh

616
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,520
some uh we have to do some i would say

617
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:54,000
some

618
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,440
doctrinal exercises to understand

619
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,080
uh how we should respond and how we

620
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,000
should behave

621
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,960
if at some point we would be facing an

622
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,480
enemy

623
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,200
that would not respect uh the law and

624
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,159
the principle

625
00:24:10,159 --> 00:24:14,880
like uh the same the same as we do

626
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,200
what do we want to do for our soldiers

627
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,600
we want to protect them in their actions

628
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,120
but at the same time we want to remain

629
00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:26,400
exemplary in the way that we are

630
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,120
performing our operation

631
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:32,880
so this is a reflection which is

632
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,919
uh very important to to incorporate at

633
00:24:35,919 --> 00:24:36,240
the

634
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,720
from the very beginning in our

635
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,799
development in our programs and in our

636
00:24:40,799 --> 00:24:43,440
operations

637
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,600
very very to to to simplify this this

638
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,200
the the ethic uh

639
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,400
the the ethic of our behavior is to be

640
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:55,760
taken into account

641
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,960
at every step since the beginning

642
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,480
in order to be as performant as we can

643
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:03,279
but

644
00:25:03,279 --> 00:25:05,600
staying within the limit that we have

645
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,679
defined previously

646
00:25:07,679 --> 00:25:09,039
sorry to cut you off emanuel i didn't

647
00:25:09,039 --> 00:25:10,240
mean to heather did you have a thought

648
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,320
on this

649
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,039
um yeah so you know i was involved with

650
00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:15,919
the creation

651
00:25:15,919 --> 00:25:19,039
of the dod's um ai ethics principles i

652
00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:20,799
was the special governmental expert

653
00:25:20,799 --> 00:25:23,039
attached to the defense innovation board

654
00:25:23,039 --> 00:25:25,039
writing those principles and so

655
00:25:25,039 --> 00:25:26,720
you know that was a very long exercise

656
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,080
and what i can say is

657
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,520
that um you know to emmanuel's point

658
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,720
you know there is a long history of

659
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:36,880
of attempting to have a professional

660
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,400
code of ethics

661
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,440
um of how to how to fight

662
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,400
within the bounds of armed conflict um

663
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:45,039
and

664
00:25:45,039 --> 00:25:48,480
most modern western militaries take that

665
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,000
that professional code very very

666
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:51,919
seriously and so

667
00:25:51,919 --> 00:25:55,279
um where it changes with ai i think is

668
00:25:55,279 --> 00:25:57,520
we have to think about what's different

669
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:58,880
right like this is

670
00:25:58,880 --> 00:25:59,919
you know how are we going to fight

671
00:25:59,919 --> 00:26:01,120
differently and how are we going to

672
00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:03,520
uphold those same ethical codes

673
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,640
um of you know command and control of

674
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,080
um of of upholding loac

675
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,159
of of upholding um principles of

676
00:26:12,159 --> 00:26:13,360
distinction and necessity and

677
00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:14,799
proportionality

678
00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:17,120
um we have to think about how we design

679
00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:17,840
and develop

680
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,520
and test and train um and these are all

681
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,480
very big questions and and they're not

682
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:25,039
easy

683
00:26:25,039 --> 00:26:28,880
problems to solve um this means that

684
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,120
all of the militaries going forward have

685
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:33,679
to take this as a serious commitment

686
00:26:33,679 --> 00:26:35,919
you know you're not just acquiring a new

687
00:26:35,919 --> 00:26:37,200
piece of kit

688
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,120
and then disseminating it throughout the

689
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:41,279
force and everything's going to be fine

690
00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:44,159
this is the way in which you interact

691
00:26:44,159 --> 00:26:45,840
with systems that learn

692
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,679
the way that you interact with systems

693
00:26:47,679 --> 00:26:49,919
that behaviors might be slightly

694
00:26:49,919 --> 00:26:53,840
unpredictable within a set of bounds

695
00:26:54,159 --> 00:26:56,559
you have to you have to equip commanders

696
00:26:56,559 --> 00:26:58,320
and operators with the appropriate

697
00:26:58,320 --> 00:26:58,960
knowledge

698
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,440
and how to use that when to make the

699
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,760
appropriate judgments of when to use

700
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:04,960
that type of

701
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,600
of kit you know if i'm looking at a

702
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,679
loitering munition or i'm looking at

703
00:27:09,679 --> 00:27:12,799
a sub hunter or i'm looking at um

704
00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:15,440
a swarm all of these things are going to

705
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:16,640
be

706
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,200
based in a very big set of human

707
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,080
judgments

708
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,120
with intelligence uh reports coming in

709
00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:25,679
with satellite imagery dual

710
00:27:25,679 --> 00:27:27,440
authentication of all sorts of things

711
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,159
and so humans have to deal with an

712
00:27:30,159 --> 00:27:32,480
increasingly complex space

713
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,399
and make the appropriate judgments in

714
00:27:34,399 --> 00:27:36,240
line with their moral

715
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,440
sets of values but i do think that

716
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:40,320
having

717
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,640
been part of that process of enumerating

718
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,000
what those principles are

719
00:27:46,399 --> 00:27:48,720
the militaries are very much committed

720
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:49,919
to doing that

721
00:27:49,919 --> 00:27:52,000
um and even if our adversary says i

722
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,960
don't want to play by these rules

723
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,559
that's what sets us apart as

724
00:27:58,559 --> 00:28:01,039
as as modern militaries who do comply

725
00:28:01,039 --> 00:28:02,559
with a set of normative values in

726
00:28:02,559 --> 00:28:04,399
international humanitarian law if we

727
00:28:04,399 --> 00:28:05,520
throw out those

728
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,919
principles then we have no moral

729
00:28:07,919 --> 00:28:09,279
standing

730
00:28:09,279 --> 00:28:12,480
on the international stage and civilians

731
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,799
will ultimately suffer

732
00:28:14,799 --> 00:28:16,960
not just our warfighters but civilians

733
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,720
will suffer and so it's very important

734
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:19,919
to maintain

735
00:28:19,919 --> 00:28:22,640
that set of values to minimize force and

736
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,399
to protect human life as much as

737
00:28:24,399 --> 00:28:25,360
possible

738
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:28,399
if we have to start using force

739
00:28:28,399 --> 00:28:30,399
i think it's a vital point and if you

740
00:28:30,399 --> 00:28:31,520
aren't familiar with the

741
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,120
ai ethics principles i encourage you to

742
00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:34,799
check them out because uh

743
00:28:34,799 --> 00:28:37,919
uh in many ways they are a blueprint for

744
00:28:37,919 --> 00:28:38,480
the way

745
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,320
uh very large corporations should be

746
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:41,840
constructing ai principles

747
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,159
uh the military's ai principles the

748
00:28:44,159 --> 00:28:45,039
united states

749
00:28:45,039 --> 00:28:47,520
uh runs several pages dozens of pages as

750
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:48,480
opposed to

751
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,559
uh some that you see coming out of

752
00:28:50,559 --> 00:28:52,880
silicon valley that are maybe 800 words

753
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,279
so uh it's a real feat but uh we have

754
00:28:55,279 --> 00:28:57,120
time for maybe one last question and so

755
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,039
i'll uh turn it to you heather

756
00:28:59,039 --> 00:29:00,880
and if you want to chime in a manual go

757
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,080
ahead but

758
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:03,679
watching this space over the years

759
00:29:03,679 --> 00:29:05,120
there's lots of different ways to invest

760
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,480
in artificial intelligence you can

761
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:07,840
invest in

762
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,440
new startups that are developing new

763
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,200
algorithms you can

764
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,399
invest in more data sets and cloud to

765
00:29:14,399 --> 00:29:15,840
host that data

766
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:17,399
you can invest in more testing and

767
00:29:17,399 --> 00:29:19,760
experimentation uh

768
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,320
to help reveal new plateaus of human

769
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:23,919
machine teaming so

770
00:29:23,919 --> 00:29:27,039
to your mind where is a military's

771
00:29:27,039 --> 00:29:29,919
research money best spent right now is

772
00:29:29,919 --> 00:29:31,200
it in testing

773
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,039
is it in procuring new flashy

774
00:29:35,039 --> 00:29:38,159
solutions out of silicon valley is it in

775
00:29:38,159 --> 00:29:40,640
perhaps cloud hosting and creating that

776
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:41,200
uh

777
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,200
technical basis for interoperability

778
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:44,559
that was just discussed

779
00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:47,520
where does a military invest now to best

780
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:48,880
harness this future i'll

781
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,559
turn to you heather first that's a great

782
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:53,600
question pat

783
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,440
um i because everybody it's a

784
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,760
it's it's a zero-sum game right we only

785
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:01,520
have so much money so where do we put

786
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:02,559
that money

787
00:30:02,559 --> 00:30:06,000
um infrastructure is is

788
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,039
really the key and and and

789
00:30:09,039 --> 00:30:11,279
it depending upon a state's national

790
00:30:11,279 --> 00:30:12,399
interests

791
00:30:12,399 --> 00:30:15,360
and where they are going to pursue ai

792
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,000
given those national interests

793
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,159
i think infrastructure is key so that's

794
00:30:20,159 --> 00:30:23,120
going to be in how do i

795
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,240
uh create maybe it's cloud

796
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,480
right how do i best secure cloud

797
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:29,840
computing storage

798
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,960
and and do so um effectively

799
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:37,120
how do i upgrade my networks how do i

800
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,360
get more bandwidth how do i

801
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,960
make data easy to to be interoperable

802
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:46,640
and accessible

803
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,840
across a force to repurpose and to

804
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:50,799
relabel

805
00:30:50,799 --> 00:30:54,080
um how do i then um create that testing

806
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,240
verification validation pipeline so that

807
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:57,440
i can do

808
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,320
software as a service instead of having

809
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:00,799
to do

810
00:31:00,799 --> 00:31:04,559
acquisitions in a very old way of

811
00:31:04,559 --> 00:31:07,360
30-year cycles and upgrades and someone

812
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:08,960
walking around with a thumb drive

813
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,679
and going to each computer so i think

814
00:31:11,679 --> 00:31:13,200
really the backbone

815
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,480
of of any force right now is

816
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,200
is the really not sexy stuff it's the

817
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:20,640
infrastructure

818
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,039
about data hosting cloud computing

819
00:31:23,039 --> 00:31:24,320
software as a service

820
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,799
networks and communication bandwidth

821
00:31:26,799 --> 00:31:28,080
that will enable

822
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,519
a force to get the shiny bright widget

823
00:31:31,519 --> 00:31:33,039
and i'm afraid we're going to have to

824
00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:35,039
end on that note we are out of time

825
00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:37,120
uh thank you both for being here today

826
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:38,880
thank you to our audience coming up next

827
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:40,240
in habsburg at four

828
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,000
we have a session called democracy in

829
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,840
the digital space an alliance for a

830
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,279
healthy infosphere

831
00:31:45,279 --> 00:31:48,159
and on the mariturisa stage european

832
00:31:48,159 --> 00:31:49,919
cooperation with representatives

833
00:31:49,919 --> 00:31:52,240
of ministries of defense from slovakia

834
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:53,919
the czech republic and sweden

835
00:31:53,919 --> 00:31:55,360
so thank you all for being here thank

836
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,240
you to my panelists

837
00:31:58,559 --> 00:32:01,840
thank you very much

838
00:32:02,370 --> 00:32:11,010
[Music]