[Music]
hello bonjour
nahoy i'm roger hilton defense and
security research fellow at globetech
coming to you live from the 2021
globetech bratislava forum
it's day one and it's my pleasure in the
future for the next three days to be
bringing you video highlights
recaps and all of the major updates from
our international conference
we have a rockstar lineup of speakers
and moderators and we really hope you
look forward to watching us in the
future
we started bright and early with our
annual european defense roundtable
and launched globesec's future security
and defense council
following the official welcome presented
by our masters of ceremony we heard a
keynote from slovakian president suzanne
chaputova
on building back better we were then
privileged to hear a video message
from his holiness pope francis who spoke
to our world audience
on the merits of hard work and
compassion
staying in central and eastern europe
both the president of poland and croatia
delivered keynotes and stressed the need
for global solidarity
in times of crisis shifting to a topic
of the future
an energetic debate on the state of the
future of transatlantic relations in the
digital sphere took place
while on our second stage the global
perspectives on how to fight kovid and
emerge from the pandemic stronger
also happened finally to wrap up the day
the prime ministers of austria and
slovakia
as well as the deputy prime minister of
czechia discuss the european recovery
plan and how to jumpstart the
continental economy
for more information on our other
world-class panels
make sure to check our website and our
various social media channels on
facebook on instagram
see you on day two
[Music]
[Applause]
[Music]
good morning and thank you all for being
here today it's very exciting to
attend a live event finally after being
locked up
for so long we have a very exciting
panel here this morning
for you about a subject that i think is
close to all of our hearts the
great eu soul searching it's obviously
something that we've been talking about
for a very long time and i suspect will
be
for many years to come but let me
introduce
the panel quickly we have
some of the greatest experts on this
subject in europe
here today both in the room here as
as well as uh virtually let me start
uh along with the appropriate protocol
with
our host uh foreign minister ivan kochok
thank you very much for being with us
here today sir we also have
alexander scharnberg who of course is
the austrian foreign minister
we have piped in from
rome marina sereni who is the deputy
foreign minister
of italy and finally we have daniela
schwarze
who many of you i suspect know from some
of her previous jobs she's in a new
position now as
executive director for europe and asia
for the open society foundation and she
is as i am based in berlin my name is
matthew karnichnik
i'm politico's chief europe
correspondent and i have the pleasure of
moderating the discussion
today i should mention that if you are
interested in
diving somewhat deeper into this
material the globe set
policy institute has published a paper
called the time for the eu's foreign
policy
is now which you can collect outside i
believe
i would also like to remind you that you
can ask
questions there is the globesick app at
your disposal
and i look forward to a lot of
provocative
questions from the audience over the
next
hour uh let me just remind you that a
session is only 60 minutes long so
please keep your questions uh brief and
i would ask the people in the room here
to
stand up so with no further ado
uh let's begin and i would like to start
with you
minister scheinbeck if if i could
uh you come from a country that
is famous for being uh neutral some
would say
uh maybe too neutral on on some subjects
when you are looking at this issue of
uh you know the role that the eu should
play on
the global stage i mean especially today
when we think about the summit meeting
that is going to take place
in geneva in a few hours it's notable
that the eu
isn't going to be at that table should
the eu
have more of a role here will it ever be
at the big boys table as some people
call it
well first of all thank you for thank
you for the invitation it's great to be
here and it's really
awesome i have to say to see so many
people in in 3d
physically uh it makes a difference and
it's a good sign that we are slowly
getting out of this uh uh uh situation
we had in the last 12 months
um well thank you for the question
because it's it's funny
i have heard already the country that
austria is not neutral enough
lately so from our perspective
uh in the last 25 years after joining
european union neutrality was never an
issue and i believe
this is not the issue on the european
level and yes we should
claim our seed in the table of of of the
big players and
and we actually are sit we're already
sitting there um
if we do the soul-searching europe we're
extremely good at talking ourselves down
sometimes
we have this tendency of seeing the
deficiencies and not looking at the
things that are actually working it's
the same thing on common market and
other european issues
we don't see the 80 working we only stay
at the 20
which might be difficult and we are
still
at the biggest worldwide donor of of
foreign aid we are
an economic bloc we are a financial
block we are a trade bloc
we have leverage the only thing is we
have to start using it
i believe the key word the buzzword we
should be using is less strategic
autonomy
but coherence capability to act and to
put our pieces together
because we have it and i believe even
and i we have it constantly in the
council
that we talk about issues and then we
say why don't we use our trade power why
don't we we are the biggest donor in a
certain area we had the biggest trade
power in a certain area
but we are not capable of putting that
you know spilling it over bringing it
over
to use it as a political means and this
is something which is a hard lesson for
europe to learn
i believe the thing is sometimes i
compare it if i can take a step back
after the fall of the iron curtain we
had this impression
everything the whole world will become
more european russia is moving towards
us
turkey is trying to take over european
standards then we had the phase of
hangover we woke up and we found out no
the world is not nice
the world is not moving and becoming
towards european union is not becoming
more european
and and the winds are getting rougher
for us and now we are
in this phase of waking up of becoming
getting sober again
and and being more realistic and it's a
steep
main sometimes painful learning curve
but we're doing it
consider for instance the fdi screening
we have established in 2018
foreign direct investments or simply the
wordings
i mean that we consider in eu documents
china as not only a partner and a
competitor
but also as a systemic rival
is something would have we would have
never done six to seven years ago
so things are progressing we're not
there yet but things are progressing on
that quickly because you mentioned china
there was also an attempt over the past
uh
several weeks to have a joint eu
statement
on china uh criticizing china for the
human rights abuses there that has been
blocked by hungary
because we have the system of unanimity
within the
uh eu-27 you talk about coherence and
yet it seems that
still every country pretty much is
pursuing its own
uh foreign policy your own country
recently i think you just hinted at the
criticism of the neutrality
uh which also happens to be my country
uh raised the
israeli flag on the top of both the
foreign ministry and the uh
the chancellery a few weeks ago uh was
criticized for that
so how do you create this coherence
because it doesn't really seem
uh to be there at the moment i don't
believe that koreans has anything
anything to do with a qualified majority
award yes i regret that we we didn't
manage to get a common approach in a
common vote
on on hong kong um but
i've been around for the treaty of nasa
negotiations i've been part of most
igc's as
as diplomat in the in the past 20 years
um even the
convention of the future of europe and
qmv is not the solution for everything
we have to be aware of that
one of the strengths that the european
union has is this
internal capacity of speaking with one
voice
and this credibility that brings that
comes along with it
so in the moment we have qmv probably
third countries would it wouldn't be a
secret who voted
against so who would tell us that the
chinese or russians or others would not
use this possibility to go to the
dissenting opinion and say
come on you don't agree we can do
something else i believe
and here again it's it's less about
procedural issues
it's about the political will it's about
this
you could say political culture in the
council and i hope we have the
possibility to talk about it later on
because i believe there are many things
we can do
and i believe that the high
representative joseph broyle is moving
into the right direction
mandating ministers to do trips on his
behalf
and and other things and it's more the
political
will that we need than structural
changes and that is
because coherence is the same thing um
if we if we
start overcoming these blockages which
we have even within the commission that
the dga
doesn't want to know what the dgb is
doing or say this is my garden
i i tend to it alone and we have the
same thing on national level this is not
a criticism this is a coherence is a
challenge for every administration
and i believe if we get better at it the
most the stronger we will be
internationally
ivan korchok your country is also one of
the smaller members of the eu
is not known to be a big fan of we
always say mid-sized countries
how do you achieve this goal of
coherence in your view
that minister schallenberg just raised
i wish i knew but the funny thing is
that with my friend alexander
charlemagne by the way who who has a
substantial
contribution to the fact that i am
foreign minister
because uh because he
offered me a repatriation flight the
last one from
washington by which i managed to get
home
to be sworn in as a as a foreign
minister so
i got something in the cars from
slovakia yes
not to do it so
so from day one we we really
became a very very good colleagues but
i'm mentioning that as well
because when entering the room and and
mr carnegie
i encourage him to start with uh with
alexander and he said well it's
difficult because always i speak after
you he said
and he always said i agree with me and
this time i want to make a bit more
provocative
because i am speaking after you and i i
do not agree that much
with uh with what you said because
it's it's right that we as a european
union
have um capacities that we have ambition
no doubt about it to play a
global role nevertheless when you look
at the output i think it's
it's not what it should be
i believe i am inspired by yesterday's
contribution of our president
uh zuzana chabutawa what she said in the
in her contribution
and and partly by the pope francis
who said that in a way that any soul
searching
this is the title of the panel start
with recognizing reality
in which we are living and i have here
four points
where i believe which i believe are
worth recalling all the time
in order to realize in what kind of
world we are living in
in what kind of world the eu claims its
its ambition to become a global player
what is underway is geopolitical shift
from euro-atlantic to indo-pacific
region and that's not a theory
that's happening as we speak right now
second
our model of governance is getting
more and more under pressure and i think
john ellen who was awarded yesterday
spoke eloquently
about that liberal democracy gets under
pressure it's being questioned
it's being questioned not by our
opponents
it's very often questioned by by
ourselves
number three the power struggle
continues to move from traditional
domain
to competition in the area of technology
and the question is whether we can
basically live up or to to that
to that challenge and omnipresent issue
of demography
so i think president chapito was right
when she said we need
a joint perception of this to see this
reality
and to set the ambition right for us for
european union to be a global player
that brings me to my second point
and that contradicts a little bit the
doses of optimism which my friend
brought today from vienna friends am i
the longer i am in this business
the the more i'm asking myself whether
we've set it right
our ambition to be a global
player a european union i'm not giving
up that
ambition but i'm asking don't forget the
eu
was created more than what 70 years ago
in order to basically
not to project our interest externally
beyond our borders but rather to curb
power within or amongst the member
states
that was the original idea the dna on
which the eu was built
to prevent countries you know waging war
amongst ourselves but
in the 60s and later on the 70s there
was not a single idea that we would
be expected to exert and
and show power and project power
externally and all of a sudden because
the world has changed so much
dramatically of course there is no other
way but to claim it
but if you look at the respective areas
which influence the global developments
where are we he's right
my friend alexander with the development
policy and so on
uh development assistance that's right
but shouldn't we
instead of reclaiming the global
ambition
start somehow rethinking
the level of ambition that we want that
we want to
project and that brings me to the third
point
i'm not a friend of grand strategies
because
you know every morning then you were
waking up and you were confronted that
while we have global ambition we have a
grand strategy but you have lukashenko
right and he and he and he exposes us to
our level of influence where we
basically see not only european union
but other other countries as well
well speaking about the countries i'd
like to bring in deputy minister
um quickly so but but maybe the last one
just to
round it up i'm rather friend of
sup strategies a smaller
clearly defined strategies vis-a-vis
or in those areas where we must deliver
it's the western balkans
definitely in the middle east where are
we there as european union where are we
as a european union when it comes to
solution of a conflict in
ukraine where are we in the north of of
africa so
rather more down-to-earth approach in
order not to be
disappointed each each and every time
when we
claim global global uh influence but
the output is suboptimal i would say
thank you very much sir
uh marina sereni um i'd like to bring
you into the discussion
uh evan kochok raises an interesting
point that the
eu as it has evolved is at a point now
where it might be aiming too high
and maybe it should stick to its
knitting a little bit more and focus on
places in the world that it can change
be it the western balkans
or looking at belarus and other places
you
represent one of the larger members of
of the eu
do you think from rome when you
look out at europe that the european
union needs to be playing a more
forceful role here or do you think that
the system
can continue to kind of muddle along as
it is now
thank you thank you very much for the
question and let me start
thanking mr korchok minister kochok for
his kind
invitation i'm really glad to be able to
participate
in the bratislava forum and i have to
the chance
of analyzing with you a theme of central
relevance of
uh for our common future uh the eu
wants to be a global player or in the
expression
used by both the president of the
commission and by the high
representative
a geopolitical actor this is a huge
challenge in my opinion it is also a
necessity
it is quite clear that no single eu
member state
can have a real impact on major
international
issues while a european union with a
united
position certainly will stand
better changes changes
the common foreign and security policy
as the ambition to be
the common foreign policy of 27 member
states
currently however it is often
only the minimum common denominator of
the 27
member states foreign policies this is
the price we have to pay
to have a common foreign policy
reconciling
national interests of 27 member states
these interests could diverge one from
from the other
and sometimes they could as well be in
conflict
one with the other i am convinced
that the eu should show in words
and indeed its capacity to act as a
geopolitical actor
especially in case of crisis like those
mentioned by
minister korchok especially in our own
uh neighborhood i'm thinking as an
example to the
mediterranean and middle east area and
specifically
to the middle east peace process recent
events
made it clear that this subject cannot
be put aside
but needs to be faced and solved if we
want peace and security
for the region and indirectly for europe
the european union can play a
significant role
within the quarter and in contact with
the parties
but it needs to show a coincident
position
in other words to speak with a single
voice or
with various voices if you want but
saying
the same thing we are not there for the
moment
and we are losing or we are we risk to
lose grounds
ground to other actors and we we have to
know this
in the current situation in order to
make sure that the eu
acts collectively in foreign policy it
is important to make an
effort to ensure the maximum convergence
among member states
we should strive to have a common
foreign and security policy
at the same time effective and
representative of the whole
membership uh there are indeed new tools
i would i would like to mention them
through which the eu aims at improving
its capacity to act in foreign and
security policy
i'm thinking for instance at the new
financial instrument for external
action in d.c who is
has been renominated global europe
which should provide the eu geopolitical
effort
with the new operational architecture
able to better pursue
its political priorities including
the promotion of democracy the rule of
law and human rights
security migration and mobility trade
and
inclusive and sustainable growth in this
we will also prove instrumental in
helping us
solving another of our problems
that is the need to increase eu
visibility and projection
capacity while countering a negative
narrative
on our action abroad equally
i would like to mention the strategic
complex compass that eu
is bringing together the u is bringing
it together in a coherent way
or its security and defense tool it is
true uh minister korchok has said
before we we should not think
always in a strategic way for every
strike for having a strategy
but we need also some places where we
can
think uh strategically and
we need to have we need
we need to have these instruments
we need to have the possibility
to provide the eu with the ability to
act
autonomously when necessary but together
with others whenever possible and
these days with the united states we are
with
our principal allies is very clear and
very important for us
um thank you very much and i do think
that you raise an
interesting uh point danielle schwarzer
when
uh deputy minister sarini talks about
the lowest common denominator
and uh the uh implication there is that
there is a lowest common denominator and
in my view
there doesn't even seem to be a lowest
common denominator there is there is no
denominator often if you look at
policy towards places like russia or
china
recently uh the middle east
um you know is is is this
really a realistic way
forward uh or should the eu just
acknowledge that it doesn't have
a common foreign policy and won't until
it gets away
with uh qmv and maybe just concentrate
on other things
well thanks for that encouraging
question michael i i
you know i wouldn't agree with you there
is a common denominator
and if we just take the list that ivan
kocher gave us of the challenges we are
facing
i think if you start from there and you
ask any european government
whether the eu should be able to
at least protect itself if not impact on
global developments that really go to
the core
of our national systems because the
challenges that have been named
they they are not out there they are
within the european union they are
within member states if you just take
the topic of chinese or russian
interference within western liberal
democracies so
i would say there is a common
denominator however when we then look at
the question
do the member states share the answers
to handle some of the crisis and you
mentioned the middle east
we haven't talked about africa yet i
would put that into the picture as well
russia of course i think what we
definitely need to work on in the
european union is a very precise
risk and threat assessment and of course
the attention
of a country for instance like france
goes towards africa
goes towards the risk of terrorism while
if you go to poland
and you ask them what is your risk
assessment it is the physical threat of
russia
and it is the sense of undermining
democracy
within the european union by hybrid
threats
and so this is what the eu has to work
on and it has started and this
is what i find encouraging and the
deputy italian foreign minister just
said
the strategic compass is an important
tool forward and i think it is true
what is this basically the 27 member
states compare notes
on what they see out there as the most
important threats and challenges
and the conversation that is now ongoing
and i suppose the ministers will
will be able to evaluate whether there
is in fact progress in
in on the council level there is
a an effort to build a common
understanding
um and once we have that we can be
far more serious on the question of do
we have the instruments and i
you know the term strategic autonomy is
very often mentioned
i don't think we should discuss that
kind of abstract concept because
europeans don't project the same
notions into that what we need is a very
serious understanding
what capacity to act do we have and do
we need
and if we look at that picture it's grim
because we do not have the tools at our
disposal
let me just comment on why i think this
is so obviously the member states never
transferred
foreign or defense policy to the
european level
so you cannot blame the eu that it
doesn't deliver on that
you have to look at the member states
and you have to ask them are you serious
that individually you will be able to
tackle those challenges out there
is the right framework nato or do
europeans need to work more closely
together
and i do think if we take the impact of
the covet 19 crisis and the deep
pressure on national budgets there's an
even stronger case now
to enhance european cooperation on
defense within
the nato framework let me pick one other
example where
it is really a lack of political will to
build the right instruments
we all know we live in a geo-economic
world now where it's not only about
foreign and defence policy if we think
about external relations and impacting
regional or global developments
it's very much about the strategic use
of economic tools as well and others
turn them against us
now we have the single market as a huge
asset
we have the euro as a huge asset but
when we ask ourselves
is the euro punching above or below its
weight internationally
the answer is clearly below and why
because it has doesn't have the standing
of an international currency
now i just i'll close with that when
donald trump decided to leave the jcpoa
so the iran agreement we suddenly had
this discussion in
in berlin i you know i was sort of part
of it at the core
so what can we do what alternatives do
we have
to you know to um counter
the extraterritorial sanctions that the
u.s imposed at the time
and the quick answer was well we have to
use the euro we need a stronger role for
the euro
and then when it came to the discussion
why is the euro not where it should be
the simple answer is because the member
governments
never went as far as they should have to
internally consolidate the monetary
union by giving it a deep financial
market
by giving it the financial tools it
needs by completing banking union and by
seriously working on legitimate
governance mechanisms
so you know we can criticize the lack of
global power of the eu
but in order to work on it we have to
look
at the internal conditions within the
european union
and that's where the responsibility of
national governments is
thank you very much i think we've had uh
four very interesting
opening statements here i'd like to pick
up the pace a little bit with with your
questions
uh we we do have a few questions already
one
to the heart of what you were just
saying daniella which is
the the question of the eu's uh defense
capability and if that needs to be built
out really
before something substantial can happen
in terms of eu
power ivan korchok your country
is a member of nato um how do you see
this question i mean are we
are do we need to get to a point where
um
there there really is a a substantial
eu military force in some
in in some constellation for the eu to
exercise its power in addition to the
economic tools
uh through the euro and and other
measures
nato is in a good shape
i think it's it's fair to say and this
is my conclusion
from the meeting which i had a chance to
attend
two days ago
i have i have a good feeling from that
it's a recommitment to the very basic
role of nader which is collective
defense
we have an agreement that we have
embarked upon
a journey where we want to make it fit
for the 2030
challenges america is back president
biden was very
clear and outspoken on that so
nato is i think in a good shape in
addition
this is not very popular but over the
last four years
the the member states of nato have
increased the defense spending by 200
billion 200 billion more are we spending
as a nato
nations for our own defense
now the the eternal question about
defense and that ambition of european
union in that area
by score fine ambition fine
but the capability issue i think we are
lagging behind the ambition again
but still when it when it comes to what
we can project here
in this area it's question of political
will whether whether we are
able to go into common
operation operations in in our vicinity
i'm very much
uh curious what the european union which
was showing
in africa in in in sahel
uh region so this
is this is extremely important if we
really want to live up to
what we proclaim our our global
global ambition and more influence in
the area of foreign policy
let me go to uh mr schoenberg quickly
because you have an interesting
perspective i think coming from
again a neutral country i think it might
be good that you're not in nato actually
because of the austrian bundesliga i
think spends
less well less than no i i don't believe
i don't believe it's anything to do with
being non-aligned and neutral
um there are two points one is a
and and you said there's something very
important is the risk assessment
and i think it's a little bit old-school
to think now we need a european army and
this would be the the the
the safety we have in the future um if
we take the risk assessments nowadays
it's
about things like new technologies
artificial intelligence and these things
so
uh um or quantum mechanics
if we don't get our act together on that
it's no use to have an army
frankly uh so i believe we first we need
a risk risk assessment because otherwise
we do what we are great in europe
in europe we make a grand statement we
have great speeches we make
one step but without taking the second
step and we have something where we can
have an opening ceremony and nothing
follows
i believe uh um on on a defense policy
something and this has nothing to do
with neutrality again we never had an
issue with that and we said so when we
joined and we have five member states
being non-aligned it's not only austria
it's ireland malta
sweden and finland so um what about
pooling and sharing
why don't we have a common market in the
defense area we have tried
and it didn't fail because of the five
countries which are non-aligned it
failed of those
because of those countries who have a
defense industry
and where the pressure from the local
defense national defense industry
definitely not to buy with the neighbor
you know to buy the national product so
why don't we start with that but we're
good at
creating the rules implica applying the
rules of the common market in this area
that would be a first step and then we
can take the second one so instead of
having again a grand design
and and only doing it halfway as we did
in other areas like schengen for
instance we did the first step without
taking the second step
or the euro area um so i believe
let's make a risk assessment first see
where we need
to put our strengths together or pull
our forces and i believe that we might
end up saying it's not
you know the hardware and the army stuff
um
thank you very much i would like to go
to the questions in the room so please
prepare your questions and and while
you're thinking about them
uh i'd like to take one of the questions
from the globe sec
app which i think is right to the
uh wheelhouse of our our panelists up
here it has to do with the
western balkans and
um the the question is to what extent do
you feel the eu is making progress
in the western balkans in terms of
advancing the eu's geostrategic
uh objectives as said previously if
there is a place where the eu could make
its weight felt
uh it would be in the western balkans
maybe
start small uh i think um
even quachoke you probably have some
thoughts on this yes
no i mean the western balkans where else
if not there
and this is this is my doctrine my
thinking if you want
if you want to claim global ambition you
have to start in your
neighborhood in your vicinity so it's a
must
there we have to project our interest
because they
are they are indicated that they want to
be
members uh one day yet at the same time
we see that that's still
in the in the european union
national interests are prevailing and
we next week actually
we can show in the council whether we
can finally open
or move forward the accession talks with
two countries with
albania and north north macedonia if not
then we ourselves are putting our our
enlargement policy which we believe is
the main instrument of uh
projecting stability in endowed in in
question
um everybody sees that there are
competing powers which are
projecting their interest in in the
western
balkans it's a it's a must for us but
once again
this is this is where we can basically
measure that on the one hand we want to
be
player there on the other hand when it
comes to such
a fundamental issues like to reciprocate
to the progress that north macedonia and
albania have done
we are not able to find a consensus
because there is one
national issue which i do respect i want
to say i do respect that bulgaria has a
national interest there but
if you look at it from from a broader
perspective
it is a big problem for us and then i'm
asking myself you know how can we
expect that we will be will be more
able on a big chess game
when we are not able to to have a clear
position in the in the western
western balkans
your politics is it's our it's not over
our neighborhood it's our
it's a european courtyard it's
surrounded by you member states
it's like our patio you know and we
don't get the act together in our
neighborhood then we should stop talking
about the grand designs in geopolitics
it's as simple as that sorry to be very
frank
citizens expect us to be able to project
security and
and uh commissioner johann once said
very rightly either we are capable of
projecting exporting security and
stability or will
end up importing instability and
insecurity it's a very simple quotation
and and um it's it's astonishing that we
fail even in the closest neighborhood
you mentioned belarus beforehand
we have the ukraine we have moldova we
have southern carcasses we have the
northern uh the southern mediterranean
and the whole western
areas where we have to prove ourselves
yeah
i would like to go to a question in the
room uh the
woman here in the second row please
state your name and your affiliation
please
i am a democratic activist from
venezuela
and for the last two years i've been the
vice minister for foreign affairs
of the constitutionally elected interim
government
i want to first thank vice minister
marina sedeni because she has been
a great champion for the venezuelan
cause in italy
but i am actually surprised and
sad that i've been here for two days and
nobody has mentioned the word latin
america
it's like we don't exist um and
the you the eu we believe and we feel
that sometimes have disconnects between
brussels and the member states
this connects between brussels and the
eu parliament who has a more
firm and clear view of what happens
uh in venezuela and latin america
because do you have a question though
yes okay it's uh having a spillover
effect over the rest of the region
my question to you both in the room and
to to all of you
is don't take venezuela geographically
or culturally because what you have
experienced
and the diagnosis that you have here
from the real threat that we have in
latin america
is more important because it's based on
values we're defending democracy and the
threat comes
from countries like russia like china
like iran
and it seems to me that you can take a
greater stand
defending these values in a region that
it's actually close to europe
thank you thank you very much let's try
to make the uh
answer briefer than the uh questions
please uh maybe
uh uh deputy foreign minister sereni
would you like to take
this question since you seem to have
some expertise
in latin america yeah i want
i want to greet my friend isabella and
yes i agree with her of course
europe has to take in account the
perception
of our security and our uh main
priorities
uh in this area in this moment in the
agenda is not
late in america but at the same time
as we want to be a global player we
cannot
forget the late in america because we
have
a very strong cultural economic
and political relationships with that
region
particularly we have to be committed in
a
crisis a situation like that one
in venezuela because there is we are
facing
a huge humanitarian crisis
and we need to show together with other
partners like mandid
like a us of course we have to show that
we are helping the opposition
and the population not only on the
humanitarian side but also on the
political one
and we are following as eu
the process for the next elections in
november
uh you you know that there are some
very small pieces of hopes
that we can see in the dialogue we are
following
the norwegian activities of mediation
and we are pushing for a real
dialogue for all among the venezuelans
with the guarantee of the international
community
we will participate next
tomorrow to the donors conference
about venezuela but it is not enough to
be there
with the humanitarian
attitude we have also to have a
political one
minister serena i'd like to bring in the
other panelists here alexander
scherzberg you you had a a brief comment
as did evan koch we only have 15 minutes
left so
only a very brief comment don't take it
personally uh um probably other regions
weren't mentioned as well
but are you raise the point which i
think is extremely important we haven't
mentioned either yet
um i believe one of the key issues is
for the european foreign policy in the
future it has to be a value-based
foreign policy this is our strength this
is our soft power
and we have to acknowledge only 25
percent of u.n member states
are sharing the same model of life and
if we talk about the western balkan
springs oh venezuela
it's a fight about what kind of model we
want to export and i believe
very strongly and personally our the
things we fought
for the things we built up in the last
two and a half centuries actually in
europe
are universal of an universal value and
we should fight for them so we need a
value-based foreign policy we need to
invest in those partnerships that are
necessary
like the transatlantic partnership like
the uk let's forget about brexit let's
move on with uk because it's a strong
partner we need in the future
and and on this respect you may raise an
important point because it doesn't make
a difference whether it's in venezuela
whether it's in nepal
or whether it's in southeastern asia or
in hong kong
i believe this is one a very strong
point and thank you for for
opening the possibility even just a
technical remark
have you have you noticed that one of
the first decisions that i have made
within the within the government for
which i was severely criticized here
in this country that we've recognized uh
interim president
uh guido and then more sarcastically i
say
i wish we had such a unified position as
european union as we have on venezuela
in other issues you know so
i believe it's because we cannot
influence entirely internal developments
there but we've been dealing with
venezuela quite
extensively and the position is uh is
very clear
um towards that uh very good point sir
thank you
daniella uh you wanted to say something
yes i'll be very short and it adds to
uh what minister scheinbach just said so
credibility starts at home and i think
if you know
if that is right what you said and i
deeply buy into that we should have a
values-based foreign policy
we can see how our internal problems of
actually protecting
those western liberal values is harming
our ability to project soft power
and i guess the western barkers are one
example where this may play out because
there's competition there's competition
there between two systems
and we need to make sure that we
maintain this credibility by ensuring
that we do not see further democratic
backsliding within the european union
and the second that point of sense of
urgency i wish to
add is yes we have to focus
on the regional crisis around the eu and
on those countries who are waiting for
our leadership to help them
transition further yes however we cannot
shy away from the very global dimension
that was in your question
and that that is the systemic
competition piece
and yes we have to rebuild transatlantic
relations in that regard
but my concern at the moment is that the
eu and a number of member states and i
include my own germany is too slow
and actually seizing that momentum that
is right now
being offered by the united states under
new leadership
so if we want to do what you said i
think we have to act on both accounts
far more decidedly
i believe you are completely right but i
i have to say one thing a caution
yes we have to remain credible but we
should not we have to see the other side
because we should not fall into the trap
to buy in the narrative
of other countries who for instance tell
the child the the americans
who tell president biden and secretary
of state lincoln you don't have nothing
to teach us
because you have faults in the us as
well on human rights so stop telling us
what to do because that's an internal
affair
no so there is still a huge difference
and a gap between
our standards and the struggle we have
internally within the european union
and the fight we are we are having in in
other countries and areas of this world
and yes um i 100 agree with you
um we have this and i believe it's the
time is of the essence we have this
chance now to really
mend come together make the north
atlantic if you want so more narrow
and we should not mess it up with europe
america needs us now and now
watching what we're doing and if we're
sending the right signal and we did
already send a couple of right
the wrong signals um then then we
shouldn't
you know be astonished if in a couple of
years there will be payback time again
and i believe from my perspective and we
should stop please stop talking about
the transatlantic relationship
let's talk let's talk with americans
about libya about
the middle east about sub-saharan africa
about concrete issues where we say what
do we do together
how do we proceed with sanctions what
can we do on a regular level
instead of talking like a partnership
you know
um how are you doing uh what should we
do better shall we have an excursion
together
no this is not partner therapy we should
act together
um and no but sometimes sorry i'm very
adamant and very emotional on this issue
because
it's a belief it's once in a lifetime
and i have this feeling in the biden
administration to see
i've never seen an administration which
has so much the wish
and the will to work together with us
and and here again
neutrality has nothing to do with it
it's values
sorry to come back to this issue all the
time but it's about values and and my
policies i want my grandchildren to wake
up in the in a
society where they have freedom of
speech freedom of assembly freedom of
religion freedom of media
and our partner in that the most
important part now the us
and we have to see this and i believe in
the next 30 40 years it will be a really
daunting and challenging struggle we
will have ahead of us and i believe it's
worth
fighting for it thank you very much i
would like to go to
another question from the audience there
was a gentleman here in the third row
who had his hand up
for a while and uh
german council foreign relations in
berlin but originally from glob second
bratislava
i want to ask about vetoes in eu foreign
policy how can you reconcile it with the
eu capacity to act that you mentioned
daniela there is
increasing nervousness in berlin with
hungarian vetoes
but what can actually be done about it
what can new
federal government germany be able to do
if you
won't change the treaties and second
question to mr schallenberg if i may
it's really a
refreshment to see a more austrian
participation
at globsec um but your
your chances i wasn't invited before i
can tell you
as i'm a veteran here that we always
tried
there was a change on austrian side
which is welcome i wasn't interested
there are two austrians on the panel now
so you can't complain
might include it but it's about values
it's also about how you define your
neighborhood
and your partners in the eu and your
chancellor yesterday was really
brilliant
very eloquent but he also slipped
something when he
referred to central europe then he
turned to his colleagues from czech
republic slovakia and then said
eastern europe so how can you reconcile
your increased presence not only the
globsec but in the region
when you still use the old perceptions
and call your partners eastern europeans
when you travel 60 kilometers down the
danube from vienna
oh that's a provocative question
i'll let you take that quickly okay uh
um maybe maybe
we we start considering ourselves as
eastern europe we're east
from prague actually no i i talk about
uh central europe and actually it's
funny that we don't have an
expression actually for the other
partners in the european union we
continue that's a very dangerous thing
it's another debate not to be
conducted today is this group perception
the club of 2004 and seven or whatever
whatever the new member states which is
ridiculous because they're not new
anymore and yes we're investing in it
heavily in this partnership because i
think the one thing and
and the pandemic was not only bad there
were messages in there there were
lessons we were taught like the urge of
digitalization of the push
in foreign policy that's another
important issue and i hope that we won't
you know get it all rid of uh once once
the pandemic is fully over
and the other one was neighborhood
matters if you have a fire in your
apartment you don't run to the guy on
the other side of the city you run to
the next
door neighbor and that was the thing
here and there's something i believe
sorry it sounds romantic beautiful which
has developed
is that we had slavko we have central
five we have all these formats and we
always have so much to discuss about
uh um so i wouldn't pin it down to words
uh and for me it's it's clearly central
to central europe and we consider
ourselves as part of this this is a
wider region starting somewhere in
northern italy and switzerland and and
moving
at least until lemberg i would say um
which is by the way closer to vienna
that's the ukrainian border
than foreign back just to play place
your places
politically but i believe the qmv
question i believe we all could do was
request to you will i take it yes please
yeah
so milan you know one one question is
can we get it
and you mentioned the german government
which makes me slightly smile because
germany helped the eu presidency uh last
year
and at some point qmv was on the agenda
as an idea
and you can blame many things on covet
but not the fact that this didn't move
forward
so what i'm trying to say is you need
unanimity to introduce
qualified majority votes and if there's
always one or two countries
who do not you know want to go with the
eu consensus
there's a very small likelihood that
this will actually happen
you know right now i hear the discussion
is and maybe
ivan culture can say more on that to to
start in some
areas of foreign foreign affairs where
it is less
let me say less political less painful
to be able to create the ability to move
forward more quickly like maybe
stabilization policy
crisis support things like that
humanitarian
issues that would be a big step forward
but for the geostrategic questions that
we have
been discussing here if we even had
qualified majority vote and the council
of ministers
i believe the very contentious issues
would move up to the european council
where unanimity again plays
so what i do believe is that the efforts
that we have described in
trying to frame the issues in this in a
way that europeans can slowly but surely
understand and not only the top-level
political leadership but really
the public debate can understand that we
have a common interest to defend
and a common shared model that we really
work very well with to defend
i think this is the base and then those
more mechanical questions of
change of voting rules can then come and
while we have to do that
i think we will see and i hope we will
member states starting initiatives in
smaller groups
but ensuring the backing of at least a
vast majority of european governments
and then one final point which i think
was already mentioned
a tool that joseph burrell wants to
employ
increasingly is to have special envoys
for certain
issues and certain regions who can give
a voice to the european union without of
course at this point a formal vote
but who can be and show a european
presence
in areas where the eu is not perceived
as a major player
so i think that's what we have to work
on for the moment of course i would
prefer
a system where decisions go through
smoothly and are then acceptable to
those who are in the minority
but i don't think we are there at the
moment so we have to work with those
other means and
again national governments still have a
huge responsibility in that system thank
you very much daniela evan korchoki we
wanted to make a brief comment
on this before we get to yes
it it slowly becomes
yet another mantra the question qmv yes
or no
it slowly becomes yet another mantra of
which we believe
once we resolve it then we are saved
that that will not happen exactly uh my
problem is that i've
been i spent too much time working
within the eu and i'm asking the
audience because there's so many experts
what do we want to um what do we want to
decide on by qmv within the council
which does not legislate
fsc is not adopting legislation
in most cases there is maybe one area
with the with the sanctions where we
legislate
but in other councils you know internal
market
the entire area of internal markets is
qmv but it's legislation
the way how we are trying to project our
interest in foreign affairs
it's not through legislation it's
political positions
in other council formations i don't want
to bother you too much with that
there is unanimity as well when adopting
political uh political statements
so i would be very cautious uh you know
in trying to portray a situation then
once we introduce qmv and i'm asking the
audience
qmv on what in foreign policy
or middle east or or the arena would
like to jump that's going to be more
much much more uh complicated than it
seems
to become a solution to our inability to
you know have a more more impact in in
foreign policy
thank you marina cerini i think you had
a comment on this spoil the name
yes with briefly a short comment because
i
agree the qualified majority voting
should not be a mantra but we cannot
avoid to have it
in our discussion because we need a
decision making process
compatible with modern reaction
and communication times we we are not
legislating but if we have to to take a
position
we have to do it in a normal time
uh with the communication time and the
divide the debate
on at the new level about qmv
in common foreign policy should will be
complicated and long
we certainly need to proceed cautiously
and win an incremental approach
i agree with daniela it's not necessary
to have
a decision immediately on this
but we have to promote a process
since we all know that
those in some fields that are
particularly sensitive
we need to try to find
the way ahead and i think we cannot
avoid
this discussion uh not deciding
immediately but to have a process
should we should i'm sorry sorry yeah
should we have a couple minutes
should we give a green light to starting
negotiations with albania
and macedonia via qmv
well we can we can we can ask i did want
to take one more but
but but that's impossible uh at this
moment because it's not a legislative
decision
minister political decision i think we
have somebody who might have some very
interesting thoughts on this one more
question
from to uh follow milan's advice and
keep it in the
in the habsburg lands
[Laughter]
carl schwarzenberg i believe you had a
a question and maybe a a comment on some
of these issues
put an interesting question if our aims
are too high but i asked myself
considering the european union after all
sometimes taking part in foreign policy
in the european union do we have any
aims in
in european union do we have
any clear aims in foreign policy i
didn't recognize them
during the whole years i was active in
policy
we don't have clear program have you
from any commission or from this new
invented
office of foreign relations
member of the commission had clear
program
what is our aim in the middle east what
is our aim
towards russia what is our aims towards
the united states
latin america and so on we have mild
interest softly spoken nothing more
we don't have any aims i mean
it's not that i prefer the 19th century
but
there was mentioned venezuela in 19th
century
one country alone britain of france
if they have a problem censor just
briefly because you're running out of
time
and the interests were clearly defined
nowadays
we have two or three clear words and
that's all
thank you very much i think thank you
sir thank you but first minister
schoenberg
uh just a quick comment very briefly um
aim if you ask germany france what is
your aim on russia what is the aim
i believe if we go on them if we go on
the meta level
we have an aim and i believe that's what
i tried to say at the very beginning
that we are waking up we are sobering up
we're becoming less naive in europe
and my and for as far as i'm considered
the aim is
safeguard our values and and export them
if possible
but we are in the competition as far as
our model of life is concerned and we
are really realizing that this is a not
kind surroundings we are not we would
love to have only friends
and we are figuring out now that we
don't and that we have actually very few
trusted valuable friends and this is a
believe the aim
what this means then when you put it on
russia on belarus on the middle east on
israel and so on
that's something which might change from
year to year changes to the situation
but i believe i have that we have a very
clear
aim as far as values are concerned i
would say at least i have
100 agreement this is what i wanted to
say very good i mean i mean no
the the question whether we have aims in
in foreign policy is legitimate but it's
it's put narrowly because the
overarching aim of european union is to
protect
the model of governance which now
gets into competition globally i think
that's the overarching it
and foreign policy should just
contribute to achieving that
aim but that aim is clearly defined i
think it's article two
i don't know which one of the of the
treaty but this is how to protect
globally the model of governance which
made us prosperous
and safe for many many decades that's
the slovak interest in european union
that's a very good final word sir thank
you very much
thank you to all of the panelists for an
engaging
discussion thank you to the audience i'd
like to remind you that the
next session here in marietta will be
in five minutes so you don't have much
time where we'll be discussing
what needs to happen to create an eu
that really delivers following up on
this discussion thank you again for your
time
thank you
you