[Music]
[Applause]
ladies and gentlemen
welcome the moderator of the next two
sessions patrick tucker
[Applause]
hello i'm patrick tucker technology
editor for defense one
welcome to our afternoon panel precious
space a string of satellites and the
future
joining me virtually arata olamini
secretary general emea the satellite
operations association
joining from brussels and mr paul jaff
electronics engineer
at the u.s naval research laboratory
joining virtually from washington dc
welcome to you both
quick reminder to our audience we are
prepared to take questions via the
globesec app
so uh we have a 20-minute session we do
ask your
questions to be brief and hope to be
able to get to a few of them in this
session or
perhaps the next one so let's get
started the
last several years have seen an
explosion in private space
activity very exciting new business
models
around constellations ever smaller less
expensive satellites but we've also seen
some small satellite providers grapple
with great financial difficulties
and we have seen rising geopolitical
tensions
surrounding space so let's start with
you eroti
what are the major problems facing the
satellite industry right now
and what role does the private sector
play in overcoming them
thanks very much patrick it's a pleasure
to be here my name is arthi
um but just to say so the major
challenge
i think for our sector right now is the
perception of the relevance of the
industry to the fast-changing telecoms
ecosystem
which now is starting to embrace 5g and
even thinking about
6g if the fundamental role that
satellite has to play in our daily lives
directly or indirectly is not understood
then policymakers are going to fail to
tap the unique strengths of this
technology
such as supporting the move towards
decarbonization
or leveraging satellite as the great
equalizer that it is between halves or
and have nots
or even looking to the future enabling
global quantum key distribution for
secure communications
uh let me turn to you paul we've seen uh
tremendous diversity of satellite
constellations over the last couple of
years
and new emerging technologies play a big
role in their design
give us a sense of how satellite design
in the next five to ten years
differs from even what is cutting edge
today how does innovation play a role in
future satellite design
certainly patrick thank you for the
opportunity we've seen a lot of the
growth recently because the industry is
finally starting to realize the benefits
of mass production you know for decades
satellites were these sort of
one-of-a-kind artisanally crafted
creations and now they are truly rolling
off assembly lines and that's one of the
major factors that's brought down the
cost
we also see the promise of the launch
vehicle providers like
spacex and blue origin that do truly
seem to be on a trajectory to make space
access
more routine a lot of the services that
we've come to
enjoy from satellite systems
communications and navigation
may even be further augmented in the
next five to ten years by
that of energy if you can imagine a
system
where much as gps completely
revolutionized how we do navigation
where
pretty much everyone listening to this
i'm sure has at least one gps enabled
device
there's a possible possibility to do the
same thing for energy where we might
have a constellation of satellites in
orbit that would collect
energy and be able to distribute it
globally
this is fascinating to me uh especially
when you consider the history
uh that the u.s navy played in the
development of the first geopol
geo-positioning systems in space uh the
reason we have gps is because some folks
at the u.s navy uh wanted to figure out
how to
position in the sky the sputnik
satellite and they reversed engineered
that and came up with
the global positioning system that we
today rely on
uh not just to figure out where we are
and to figure out where militaries are
but uh for
timing functions uh related to financial
transactions all across the globe
hugely important constellation so that
brings up another question space is
becoming
increasingly essential not just for uh
military activity but also for more and
more uh
economic life more and more civilian
life and really the functioning
of our interconnected global society and
that leads to
an ever crowded uh space especially in
low earth orbit
so uh what if you if you will rt
uh how can the international community
further
help to mitigate the threat posed by
space junk and uh ever crowded
uh satellites especially in low earth
orbit
thanks patrick that's a hugely important
question i think
management of the overall space domain
should first and foremost be a public
sector responsibility
and it is a huge challenge we are in a
phase today where private sector
technical capabilities to launch new
missions far outpaces the ability of
of regulators and governments to provide
force at foresight and deploy governance
capabilities
things that we need to look at in terms
of future actions are
the maneuverability of assets that fly
above 400 kilometers because they don't
burn up themselves
designs that minimize risk to other
operators like end-of-life actions like
removing all stored energy
decommissioning leo assets within five
years after the end of life i mean the
current rules of
25 years is really out of date and we
also need to be able to assess the risk
profile of leo systems which is not easy
i think we what we really need is more
investment in monitoring of the space
environment in all orbits and ensuring
that existing tracking systems like for
example the european space surveillance
and tracking system
that they develop new capabilities to
support emerging missions like in-orbit
servicing
arti let me stick with you for a second
uh because you bring up something very
important which is the potential for
international regulations regarding
space and
where do you see an appetite in terms of
which nation states which governments
which international bodies are being
most ambitious
pressing for an international dialogue
on space storms and uh where do you see
challenges i think it's traditionally
um the the most obvious space faring
nations but also the eu
as a block is a very very proactive
in in this context right now we're
talking about the
the european um the eeas uh
looking at a code of conduct and trying
to push that and engage with other major
governments
the canada uh
and so on um but i think you know this
is a dialogue which is going on at the
united nations level since many years
uh there's a lot of activity on it uh
but what we need is to shift now from
talking and writing codes of conduct and
so on
really to norms and new rules which are
actionable
let me turn to you paul what does the
democratization of the satellite
industry resemble and i'll also ask
artie the same question the
democratization of the satellite
industry because
i think that bringing private players
into
this discussion at an equal footing
under that framework of international
norms is really key
but we still don't really know what
democratization of the satellite
industry looks like so
can both of you speak on that for a
second
yeah certainly so so a major factor
there has just been
the plummeting cost of being able to
implement space systems right so today
like
it is not uncommon for high schools
around the world to be able to build
their own satellites
simply because a lot of these items you
can buy off the shelf and if you can
imagine that
high schools are able to operate their
own space programs certainly companies
even quite small ones are able to do
that
so that definitely amounts to the
democratization of space
and the same factors that have enabled
that are still going to continue to
radically reshaping the space industry
as a whole one of the big challenges
that
we'll see i think moving forward and
certainly this would be the case if
energy from space via power beaming were
to become a reality
is the regulation of spectrum this is
something that i know artie
is very well versed on but right now
spectrum is a finite
resource and we want to make the most of
it
but there's not a ton of it available
for
a lot of these activities and any of the
new players even with the
democratization of space
are going to have to contend with that
sure i think more countries than ever
before are launching satellites
any university science lab can afford to
put up a satellite
there are reusable launchers i mean 10
years ago nobody had even
dreamed of that and there's more money
going into new satellite systems today
than ever before
so we want to make sure that this
dynamic environment continues to thrive
but i don't think it's a case of what
does democratization of space look like
in the future i think we're looking at
it right now
okay uh let me stick with you for a
second already because
paul brings up this question of spectrum
sharing uh it's
something that a lot of people aren't
necessarily aware of but uh
the electromagnetic spectrum is what
governs the cellular universe
and uh it is bound by the laws of
physics and
uh right now the u.s military and other
organizations are having
a big discussion on how to
create sharing of portions of the
electromagnetic spectrum that are owned
by militaries
uh and sharing that with telecom
providers to create 5g
capability uh already give us a sense of
what are the technical
and what are the policy issues
surrounding spectrum sharing as relates
to space
um so iso is very very active
in uh defending satellite spectrum and
uh making sure that
uh the satellite sector satellite
communications in particular
can continue to play their rightful role
whether it's in extending the reach of
5g networks whether it's in enabling
emergency and humanitarian
communications
or whether it's simply in bridging the
digital divide with education health
care
and so on these issues that the
challenge is that you know
there is there is a geopolitical race to
be the first to roll out 5g
uh yet you have long-standing everyday
requirements
um in more and more in the developing
countries
but also in in developed countries as
well um
to to bring people online and to ensure
essential commun
communications the challenge is to find
the right balance
satellite has had a role to play it will
continue to play
a vital role and that means that there
are
um there is a need to preserve satellite
both
preserve satellite spectrum both for the
satellite sector
but also for imt international mobile
telecoms including 5g and 6g in the
future
let me uh take the same question to you
paul because uh i've been watching the
u.s military
endeavor to do something that is very
hard which is uh create spectrum sharing
realities to enable uh perhaps one of
the most important enterprises of the
21st century which is 5g capability but
also
continue to provide very important uh
coverage and communications to
uh military units that are increasingly
uh outspoken in their digital footprint
so how do you see
this technical challenge of spectrum
sharing proceeding from here
certainly and spectrum is a fascinating
resource right because if you think
about it
if you have the spectrum at a given unit
of time if it was not used it's
essentially wasted but it's now in the
past right so
it's not comparable to a lot of other
analogies we might use for natural
resources
so the idea is that you want to use as
much of the spectrum as you can
all the time and that leads to the
spectrum sharing that you described
so there's a quite a few different
approaches and definitely the demand for
spectrum
hand-in-hand with applications enabled
by 5g the large bandwidth that end users
consistently
demand is is reshaping what things look
like
there are very interesting new
opportunities in this space
one thing that has gotten more attention
recently
is optical communications which doesn't
take the rf spectrum and can be highly
directional
and then there's also quantum
communications
which uses parts of the spectrum that we
haven't used traditionally
so there are i think a lot of intriguing
opportunities for how the spectrum
can be used more optimally and certainly
people are looking at
ai techniques for spectrum allocation
and for
spectrum sharing that will help us get
the most out of this
very important and kind of profound
resource
uh can either you talk about yes please
arty yeah
i think it's very important to remember
that there are millions of people who
rely on satellite communications and
those terminals are often
unregistered people don't know where
they are they could be
tvro so television receive only
terminals um
or it could be broadband communications
elsewhere uh so wherever
satellite is relied on in this kind of
ubiquitous manner
sharing is not possible if we are
talking about protecting
large uh ground stations uh which are
predominantly used for uplinks
there from a technical perspective we
can think about um
sharing but the question of spectrum
sharing is really limited by the laws of
physics there are some places where it's
possible
and others where it simply isn't and as
i said it's a question of finding
balance
uh thank you and i think it's also going
to be a big political discussion too
just watching the conversation in the
united states
around ludago and satellite companies
that are very eager to
uh telecom companies especially absorb
more and more spectrum
uh and that perhaps comes at a cost of
functionality for other users and so we
need to watch that regulation area that
uh political discussion very carefully
uh can you comment question
from slido can you comment on dual use
government and private satellites so
thinking of private satellites that um
also offer
some communications capability for
governments i'm thinking
specifically the darpa blackjack program
but comment a little bit
on how governments are increasingly
turning to private satellite con
constellations for communications
capabilities that used to be the sole
domain of governments
i'll start with you paul yeah so this is
sort of a classic technology development
conundrum
where industry of course tends to excel
at developing systems and
making them cost-effective and
operating them but they can only do that
once the
initial technology has been developed
and matured
so the model that we often see and you
made reference to this earlier when you
talked about gps
is the the government's role tends to be
taking those initial additional or the
initial risks rather
uh you could think of it as prospecting
perhaps whereas
industry tends to excel when it comes to
the mining phase right so
to use the gps example again so nrl
developed the first atomic clocks that
were suitable for flying in space
and spaceborne atomic clocks are an
essential element to
create a navigational satellite
constellation like the global
positioning system so
once a government organization or
research organization
like the naval research laboratory
develops like the first
gps satellite or the first few gps
satellites it can be transitioned to
industry
and at that point we can start doing
what you're describing which is the
government doesn't really want to be in
the business necessarily
of operating its own hardware in its own
systems if
it can get the same capability it needs
by purchasing it from industry
and we see that increasingly for things
like
imagery and for communications where it
would be impractical
for a government to buy all of the
infrastructure needed to maintain
communication systems for a
conflict when it could just purchase it
as needed
instead of having a lot of unused
capacity that would sit around all the
time
artie do you have any thoughts on any
regulation issues or international
issues that might surround that
future use by governments of private
satellites that
serve a private communications functions
but also
uh increasingly serve military
communications as well
any reservations there are concerns
no i i know that this an extremely
important market for many satellite
operators
often it's uh one of the prime markets
is government services
because the commercial communication
sector is so good at ensuring that their
signals can be encrypted up to a
military military grade
and because they they can guarantee you
know the required levels of
reliability and availability that are
required um
no that i know that there is always uh
some kind of pressure from
um european industry to uh
uh encourage european governments to to
to buy uh european capacity for that uh
because we see that in the u.s for
example
the the government is always calling
upon its own industry
and that is a source of um you know that
can support the technology advancement
and the competitiveness of national
industries
we do see some push for that in the eu
but nothing specifically when it comes
to regulation and policy making around
it
thanks yes okay so we have time for uh
one last question and it goes to me
uh thinking about the current
geopolitical tensions
surrounding space uh the development of
a
new u.s service branch the u.s space
force uh specifically to deal with the
uh those geopolitical tensions
surrounding space and ensuring space
access for the united states and u.s
allies and uh democracies around the
world
what do you see as the biggest
geopolitical challenge going forward in
the next five to ten years
regarding uh establishing those norms
that you just described
i'll start with you artie the biggest
geopolitical challenge
regarding the governance of space for
the next five to ten years
i think the the biggest challenge that
we have
is ensuring space traffic management
solid space traffic management
uh governance of of space and weighing
that up
with uh the race to have the first leo
broadband
uh system which is also as you know
the the with starlink you have huge
government support there
the chinese are trying to build their
own system you have one web now the
european union is also trying to get in
there
i mean with all of these races going on
where you know i think that space
traffic management ultimately because it
requires
international consensus and it's
sensitive often is
unfortunately going to take a back seat
and i think that's a great shame
paul to you same question yeah
this is a critical issue because as you
describe with the democratization of
space
the increasing availability of space
access to countries and other entities
around the world
the establishment of these norms is
going to be of the utmost importance
and this is something where definitely
there are going to be implications not
just for low earth orbit where a lot of
our systems are today but
expanding further outward to cis lunar
space and the moon itself we have the
chinese who have done
remarkable technological feats putting
satellites in the earth
moon l2 point and operating on the moon
we're going to have to face property
issues and usage
rights things for not just earth orbit
but the moon and for cis lunar space
so a new infinite and expanding
territory not just for human activity
but also
potentially for regulation so i want to
thank the two panelists
uh artie olomaini from brussels and paul
jaff from washington d.c
we will continue with the next session
titans of technology
winning the future of defense right
after a short introduction video
so please don't go anywhere we'll be
back very soon
thanks better
i