1
00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:20,860
[Music]

2
00:00:23,590 --> 00:00:27,350
[Music]

3
00:00:36,290 --> 00:00:42,640
[Music]

4
00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:44,290
so

5
00:00:44,290 --> 00:00:48,390
[Music]

6
00:00:48,390 --> 00:00:51,590
[Applause]

7
00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,199
ladies and gentlemen welcome the

8
00:00:55,199 --> 00:00:56,879
moderator of the next session

9
00:00:56,879 --> 00:00:58,610
roland freudenstein

10
00:00:58,610 --> 00:01:01,979
[Music]

11
00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:05,600
thank you so much ladies and gentlemen

12
00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:07,680
dear friends

13
00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,680
indeed i'm roland freudenstein policy

14
00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:11,280
director of the wilfried

15
00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,119
martens center for european studies in

16
00:01:13,119 --> 00:01:15,040
brussels and

17
00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,439
in a few months i will join globsec as

18
00:01:17,439 --> 00:01:18,400
vice president

19
00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,200
and head of the brussels office so a

20
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:22,320
triple welcome

21
00:01:22,320 --> 00:01:26,799
to all of you here and to you um online

22
00:01:26,799 --> 00:01:31,119
to the session on a topic on which

23
00:01:31,119 --> 00:01:34,640
everyone is an expert which is political

24
00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:36,240
extremism

25
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,439
goes virtual and international and

26
00:01:39,439 --> 00:01:41,439
that's what we want to discuss with you

27
00:01:41,439 --> 00:01:42,640
today

28
00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,680
um we have two speakers right here in

29
00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:46,640
the studio

30
00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,200
and we've got three speakers online and

31
00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,040
having only 50 minutes

32
00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,000
that is a challenge so let's be

33
00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:55,119
disciplined here

34
00:01:55,119 --> 00:01:58,560
and um i will actually

35
00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,119
introduce the speakers very briefly and

36
00:02:01,119 --> 00:02:04,079
then we do a slido poll so be prepared

37
00:02:04,079 --> 00:02:04,960
for that

38
00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,040
and then we start with individual

39
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,440
questions to the speakers

40
00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,560
so we have online from new york city

41
00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,920
david ibsen who is the executive

42
00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:17,360
director

43
00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,599
of the counter extremism project

44
00:02:21,599 --> 00:02:25,360
we have daphne hali kyopoulou

45
00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,319
who is also online from reading who is

46
00:02:28,319 --> 00:02:29,280
professor

47
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,560
of comparative politics university of

48
00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,080
reading

49
00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:37,280
we have the third online speaker michael

50
00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,800
chertoff the chair

51
00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,720
and co-founder of the chertoff group

52
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,640
and last but not least the former

53
00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:52,560
secretary of homeland security in 2005

54
00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:53,840
to 2009

55
00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:55,519
in the united states and he's also

56
00:02:55,519 --> 00:02:58,000
online from washington

57
00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,959
uh here in the studio right next to me

58
00:03:00,959 --> 00:03:01,440
we have

59
00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,200
ivan bartosz the chairman of the czech

60
00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,840
pirate party and there are people who

61
00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:08,640
are saying

62
00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:10,159
that he is going to be the next prime

63
00:03:10,159 --> 00:03:12,400
minister so remember it might be a

64
00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,879
historical moment

65
00:03:14,879 --> 00:03:17,200
and last but by no means least simeon

66
00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:18,319
sommokos

67
00:03:18,319 --> 00:03:21,599
over here the founder and president of

68
00:03:21,599 --> 00:03:23,519
the delphi economic forum

69
00:03:23,519 --> 00:03:27,200
in greece so um

70
00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,560
i again would like to remind you to be

71
00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,599
brief um you also

72
00:03:33,599 --> 00:03:36,799
can ask questions but keep the questions

73
00:03:36,799 --> 00:03:38,239
brief

74
00:03:38,239 --> 00:03:42,000
um and questions can be asked in three

75
00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,440
ways

76
00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,760
this would be in the room here just

77
00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:46,879
raise your hand

78
00:03:46,879 --> 00:03:50,720
wave at me i'll see you and um

79
00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,680
then you have to you have to uh take

80
00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,280
come to the microphone actually

81
00:03:57,599 --> 00:04:00,159
i think this is the microphone right

82
00:04:00,159 --> 00:04:01,599
that's where you have to come if you ask

83
00:04:01,599 --> 00:04:02,959
the question in the room

84
00:04:02,959 --> 00:04:05,439
there's also the option of using the

85
00:04:05,439 --> 00:04:07,360
slido app

86
00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,280
or the slido function on the globsec app

87
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,360
and finally there's a possibility to

88
00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:14,720
connect via zoom

89
00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,000
to the virtual studio so um

90
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,358
but before i ask my initial kickoff

91
00:04:21,358 --> 00:04:24,560
questions to the five speakers i would

92
00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:25,520
like to

93
00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,840
do a slide or poll with you the audience

94
00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:34,160
and the the question in the slide or

95
00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:35,360
poll

96
00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:37,520
can we bring that up please um the

97
00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,840
question is

98
00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:42,960
what do you think is the main driver for

99
00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:44,000
the rise

100
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:48,160
in right-wing extremism

101
00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,720
and there are there are four options it

102
00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:52,479
is

103
00:04:52,479 --> 00:04:55,919
social media it is the raising the

104
00:04:55,919 --> 00:04:59,360
increasing economic disparities

105
00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,680
it is the mutual support of

106
00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:03,120
authoritarian governments

107
00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,840
and parties so kind of the international

108
00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:07,520
angle if you want

109
00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,560
and here's a little provocation maybe

110
00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,400
it's the illiberalism

111
00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,240
of the woke left and you all know very

112
00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:17,680
well that this is a thesis brought

113
00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:18,960
forward by many

114
00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:23,039
uh right wingers themselves so

115
00:05:23,039 --> 00:05:26,160
please uh give from from uh from

116
00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,840
uh classify these or rank these four

117
00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:32,800
options in such a way that we see which

118
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:33,440
one

119
00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,479
uh will be judged the most important by

120
00:05:36,479 --> 00:05:36,880
you

121
00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:38,960
we're going to come back in a in a few

122
00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,440
minutes with the results

123
00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,960
and now um let me let me start with

124
00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,000
the the the topic and the questions and

125
00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:49,280
of course we're

126
00:05:49,280 --> 00:05:52,160
going to ask why uh right-wing extremism

127
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:53,840
is growing at all

128
00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:54,880
we're going to discuss the role of

129
00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:56,880
social media we're going to discuss the

130
00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:58,639
international connectivity

131
00:05:58,639 --> 00:06:01,440
and of course most importantly at the

132
00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:02,319
very end

133
00:06:02,319 --> 00:06:06,000
the question of how to respond so um

134
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,400
let me begin with ivan bartosz

135
00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,199
as a czech politician ivan how do you

136
00:06:13,199 --> 00:06:14,960
assess the impact of right-wing

137
00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:16,000
extremism in

138
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,720
central europe and how serious a threat

139
00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:20,800
is it for our democracies

140
00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:22,639
so floor is yours thank you for the

141
00:06:22,639 --> 00:06:25,199
question uh i have to admit

142
00:06:25,199 --> 00:06:27,680
considering the europe and liberal

143
00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,479
democracy and maybe the future of many

144
00:06:30,479 --> 00:06:32,840
democracies in the world that we are at

145
00:06:32,840 --> 00:06:34,160
war

146
00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,199
that's obvious i'm happy

147
00:06:37,199 --> 00:06:38,639
and it's kind of fortunate czech

148
00:06:38,639 --> 00:06:40,960
republic does not

149
00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,280
face the serious threat of right-wing

150
00:06:43,280 --> 00:06:44,720
extremism

151
00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,199
compared to for example in poland

152
00:06:47,199 --> 00:06:48,240
hungary and

153
00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,919
v4 countries even slovakia but

154
00:06:51,919 --> 00:06:54,960
what we are facing is that the extremist

155
00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:56,080
topics

156
00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,680
are carried by the populist which

157
00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:01,840
results in the same disappointment of

158
00:07:01,840 --> 00:07:03,120
the people

159
00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,720
and almost any narrative almost any

160
00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,440
topic that hits the ground considering

161
00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,319
politics concerning the european union

162
00:07:12,319 --> 00:07:15,599
future of the nation or

163
00:07:15,599 --> 00:07:19,199
economic questions even covet was

164
00:07:19,199 --> 00:07:21,919
directly taken by the populist and

165
00:07:21,919 --> 00:07:22,800
multiplied

166
00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,360
by whatever forces are involved it could

167
00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:26,160
be

168
00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,479
russian money it can be influence of

169
00:07:28,479 --> 00:07:29,440
china but

170
00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,800
it it can be also particular race to the

171
00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:33,840
election

172
00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,639
motivation and it just uses similar

173
00:07:36,639 --> 00:07:37,759
algorithm that

174
00:07:37,759 --> 00:07:40,639
let's say the original outright movement

175
00:07:40,639 --> 00:07:41,039
is

176
00:07:41,039 --> 00:07:44,000
using so we don't have to really

177
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:45,520
distinguish

178
00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,919
how the let's say bad feelings within

179
00:07:47,919 --> 00:07:49,440
the people is supported

180
00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,400
if it's originated on the right wing or

181
00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:53,759
the other wing

182
00:07:53,759 --> 00:07:56,840
but the the direct impact is uh

183
00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,160
building mistrust to the institution

184
00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,879
to the democratic politics to elected

185
00:08:02,879 --> 00:08:04,800
politicians and it can easily and it's

186
00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:06,400
not my words and i believe

187
00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,160
it was somehow rephrasing what's love

188
00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,000
havel like if you sleep

189
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,800
in democracy you may wake up in a

190
00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:14,479
totalitarian system

191
00:08:14,479 --> 00:08:16,720
and all those changes that are happening

192
00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:17,759
are finally

193
00:08:17,759 --> 00:08:19,919
and we had this historical experience

194
00:08:19,919 --> 00:08:21,680
through democratic election

195
00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,319
so addressing either right-wing

196
00:08:24,319 --> 00:08:26,560
movements within the europe generation

197
00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,800
identity which is huge movement through

198
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,240
greek and through the

199
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,719
to the other nation not hitting directly

200
00:08:32,719 --> 00:08:33,679
czech republic

201
00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,120
is just uh same as addressing

202
00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,839
any let's say disturb disruptive

203
00:08:39,839 --> 00:08:41,919
disruptive and carried by the social

204
00:08:41,919 --> 00:08:43,120
media

205
00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:44,720
thoughts and movements we have to do it

206
00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,279
wisely with respect to the freedom of

207
00:08:47,279 --> 00:08:48,000
speech

208
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,240
but also this is a serious threat and

209
00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:51,360
divorce

210
00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,200
in the future are the cyber wars and

211
00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,880
disinformation wars and the knowledge

212
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:55,680
society

213
00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:57,440
which we turn in from information

214
00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,320
society deserves our attention

215
00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,120
locally on the european level and we've

216
00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:04,720
got a lot of guests here

217
00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,160
obviously worldwide thank you so much um

218
00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,279
excellent uh kick off um

219
00:09:11,279 --> 00:09:12,959
there are so many other angles so i'm

220
00:09:12,959 --> 00:09:15,279
going to pack them into the questions to

221
00:09:15,279 --> 00:09:17,040
the other speakers

222
00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,200
and then i do want an exchange with you

223
00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:20,160
here and with you

224
00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:24,640
online about about these questions

225
00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,640
so the next question goes to michael

226
00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:27,680
chertoff

227
00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:31,279
in the united states um let's take

228
00:09:31,279 --> 00:09:34,560
a look across the pond as they say what

229
00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:36,720
is the relation between trump and the

230
00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:37,519
alt-right

231
00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:40,480
i mean how much alt-right is in trump in

232
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:41,120
other words

233
00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,880
and um maybe as a as an afterthought to

234
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:46,720
this

235
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,680
how threatened was american democracy on

236
00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:51,279
january 6th

237
00:09:51,279 --> 00:09:53,600
at the time of the storming of the

238
00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:54,640
capital

239
00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,399
so michael chertoff floor is yours

240
00:09:58,399 --> 00:10:00,320
well and i have to say i also agree with

241
00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:01,519
what uh

242
00:10:01,519 --> 00:10:05,839
mr bartos said about wiring extremism

243
00:10:05,839 --> 00:10:07,440
i think in the united states we've

244
00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,360
always had a group

245
00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,920
that we would describe as alt-right goes

246
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,320
back for many years

247
00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,560
but it's been more or less below the

248
00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:18,160
surface and has not gotten a lot of

249
00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:18,800
attention

250
00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,160
until recently and i think two phenomena

251
00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,279
really elevated it um in public

252
00:10:25,279 --> 00:10:28,480
perception uh one was trump

253
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,560
because trump explicitly courted the

254
00:10:30,560 --> 00:10:31,839
right

255
00:10:31,839 --> 00:10:34,399
after the charlotte's film a march where

256
00:10:34,399 --> 00:10:36,079
someone was killed by a right-wing

257
00:10:36,079 --> 00:10:38,320
extremist in a car

258
00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,720
trump described the right wing as very

259
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,079
good people

260
00:10:42,079 --> 00:10:45,279
and he used very thinly coded language

261
00:10:45,279 --> 00:10:48,399
that echoed some of the racist

262
00:10:48,399 --> 00:10:51,519
and authoritarian meanings of the

263
00:10:51,519 --> 00:10:52,720
alt-right

264
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,079
i also think to be honest the virus

265
00:10:56,079 --> 00:10:59,200
and the lockdown further exacerbated the

266
00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:00,560
situation

267
00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:02,560
because some people resented the fact

268
00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:05,120
that they had to wear masks

269
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,399
or that opportunity to attend things in

270
00:11:08,399 --> 00:11:10,560
restaurants and bars were shot because

271
00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:12,079
of the lockdown

272
00:11:12,079 --> 00:11:14,800
and i think that further fueled the fire

273
00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,279
and this culminated on january 6

274
00:11:17,279 --> 00:11:19,519
and as i think the prior speaker said a

275
00:11:19,519 --> 00:11:21,760
lot of what right-wing extremism

276
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,519
is about is creating distrust

277
00:11:25,519 --> 00:11:28,560
and undermining social cohesion

278
00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:30,399
and in the wake of the election in

279
00:11:30,399 --> 00:11:32,320
november of 2020

280
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,120
trump's refusal to admit that the

281
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:35,920
election

282
00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,040
was conclusive and has con continuing to

283
00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,040
raise the claim that it was stolen and

284
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:42,480
there was fraud

285
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,920
even though literally dozens of courts

286
00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,279
looked at the evidence and said there

287
00:11:47,279 --> 00:11:50,480
was no evidence of serious fraud

288
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,000
that further created fuel for rightly

289
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:55,040
extremism

290
00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,360
and what we saw to our shock and horror

291
00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:58,959
on january 6

292
00:11:58,959 --> 00:12:00,800
was really nothing less than a coup

293
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,880
attempt an effort on the part of

294
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:03,680
extremists

295
00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:06,959
encouraged by trump to break into the

296
00:12:06,959 --> 00:12:10,079
legislature and to physically injure

297
00:12:10,079 --> 00:12:13,360
or harm the uh members of congress who

298
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:14,480
were voting

299
00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,560
to ratify the result of the election

300
00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:18,480
which they're required to do

301
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:21,040
in order to stop the election from going

302
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:22,079
forward

303
00:12:22,079 --> 00:12:25,200
and i must say that to watch this would

304
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,279
i felt like i was watching something in

305
00:12:27,279 --> 00:12:29,040
a in a fascist

306
00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,200
state where people don't let the

307
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:32,639
election go forward

308
00:12:32,639 --> 00:12:34,880
the good news is that the coup attempt

309
00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:36,079
failed

310
00:12:36,079 --> 00:12:38,560
and now the biden administration

311
00:12:38,560 --> 00:12:39,279
yesterday

312
00:12:39,279 --> 00:12:43,040
issued a strategy against

313
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:44,959
right-wing extremist and domestic

314
00:12:44,959 --> 00:12:46,240
terrorism

315
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,480
we've now mobilized the fbi and the

316
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,399
intelligence community

317
00:12:50,399 --> 00:12:52,079
to treat this as the number one

318
00:12:52,079 --> 00:12:53,839
terrorist threat

319
00:12:53,839 --> 00:12:56,399
in the united states and i think we need

320
00:12:56,399 --> 00:12:58,720
to have a global

321
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,200
joint effort to deal with right-wing

322
00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:02,800
extremism which is becoming an

323
00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,040
international phenomenon

324
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,399
fueled by social media and to be honest

325
00:13:08,399 --> 00:13:10,720
also made worse by the fact that you

326
00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,399
have disinformation

327
00:13:12,399 --> 00:13:16,240
emanating from russia and china

328
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,720
thank you so much uh for for this

329
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,320
introduction and i want to

330
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,320
actually stay with this international

331
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:23,680
aspect here

332
00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:27,040
and ask uh the next kickoff speaker um

333
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,480
uh daphne aliciopoulou

334
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,959
is there such a thing as nationalist

335
00:13:32,959 --> 00:13:34,000
internationalism

336
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:35,519
in other words isn't there a

337
00:13:35,519 --> 00:13:37,440
contradiction in terms here

338
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,560
uh i mean we all know that uh you know

339
00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:41,360
nationalists

340
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,000
uh let's say like from in brazil and in

341
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,320
some european countries may get along

342
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,560
but how about european countries that

343
00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:50,000
are neighboring each other and sharing a

344
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:50,959
difficult history

345
00:13:50,959 --> 00:13:52,959
how can nationalists cooperate between

346
00:13:52,959 --> 00:13:54,320
those countries and

347
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,320
how important is this whole

348
00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:57,680
international aspect

349
00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:01,199
in uh in the in the the growing strength

350
00:14:01,199 --> 00:14:02,079
of right-wing

351
00:14:02,079 --> 00:14:06,079
extremism so daphne the floor is yours

352
00:14:06,079 --> 00:14:08,480
yeah hello hi there uh thank you for

353
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:09,279
your question

354
00:14:09,279 --> 00:14:11,040
just before i address it i want to say i

355
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,199
thought your uh sliding pose

356
00:14:13,199 --> 00:14:14,959
really interesting and i'm very curious

357
00:14:14,959 --> 00:14:16,320
to see what

358
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,519
uh what the results will be um but okay

359
00:14:19,519 --> 00:14:19,839
so

360
00:14:19,839 --> 00:14:22,480
nationalist internationalism indeed i

361
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:24,000
think it's an interesting way of framing

362
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:25,440
it you're absolutely right there's a

363
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:26,720
contradiction

364
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,120
in terms right so on the one hand the

365
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:30,000
far right as

366
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,839
i prefer to call it owns the nationalism

367
00:14:33,839 --> 00:14:34,240
issue

368
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:36,560
right that means that it emphasizes the

369
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:37,279
nation

370
00:14:37,279 --> 00:14:40,560
the the the in group over the out group

371
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:40,880
so

372
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,040
any international endeavor is by

373
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:44,880
definition not

374
00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,240
their priority however there are some

375
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,279
some ways that these these uh

376
00:14:51,279 --> 00:14:53,519
the two terms if you like or nationalist

377
00:14:53,519 --> 00:14:55,360
internationalism can

378
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,320
coincide and that is uh both in terms of

379
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,240
extreme right groups but also in terms

380
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:01,839
of the more moderate far-right parties

381
00:15:01,839 --> 00:15:04,320
that we see even in power in or in

382
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,440
in parliament so for example um many

383
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:08,800
extreme right groups

384
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,360
uh actually have many branches so you

385
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,199
know things like combat 18 for example

386
00:15:13,199 --> 00:15:13,760
they

387
00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:15,279
they function they have branches in the

388
00:15:15,279 --> 00:15:16,959
us in canada and in

389
00:15:16,959 --> 00:15:19,680
a number of european countries i think

390
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:20,480
similarly

391
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,440
some of these groups uh interact quite a

392
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,360
lot online and this gives them a

393
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:26,000
platform

394
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,440
to have members engage and and discuss

395
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,639
and spread their ideas so this

396
00:15:32,639 --> 00:15:34,959
i think it's a it's an exhilarating if

397
00:15:34,959 --> 00:15:36,000
you like uh

398
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,000
role that it plays that it allows people

399
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,639
to spread the message really quickly

400
00:15:40,639 --> 00:15:43,279
through these international links

401
00:15:43,279 --> 00:15:45,279
now in terms of political parties one

402
00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:46,880
thing that i've noticed quite a lot in

403
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:48,720
my work is how they

404
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,800
copy each other so the the

405
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,040
internationalism

406
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,560
comes into into finding a message that

407
00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,160
that one party sort of for example

408
00:15:58,160 --> 00:15:59,759
spreads in one country and then another

409
00:15:59,759 --> 00:16:01,519
party thinks so this is successful

410
00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:04,399
so i will copy it too a famous example

411
00:16:04,399 --> 00:16:04,959
is uh

412
00:16:04,959 --> 00:16:06,880
i don't know if if the audience is

413
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,000
familiar with the

414
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,360
swiss svp the the poster they had in a

415
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,600
previous electoral campaign of a white

416
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,800
sheep uh on on a swiss flag

417
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,800
kicking out the black sheep and

418
00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,399
obviously this this has been copied so

419
00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:22,160
it's been used also from

420
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,959
the german npd and it's this this idea

421
00:16:24,959 --> 00:16:27,120
of what i call civic nationalism this

422
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:28,079
message

423
00:16:28,079 --> 00:16:30,079
that we need to exclude those who are

424
00:16:30,079 --> 00:16:31,199
intolerant of us

425
00:16:31,199 --> 00:16:33,040
and our beliefs and our democratic

426
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:34,959
values has been taken up

427
00:16:34,959 --> 00:16:38,560
by a lot of um a lot of european far

428
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,800
right parties so this is the the copycat

429
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,519
internationalism if you like and then

430
00:16:43,519 --> 00:16:45,199
and then finally there is also the

431
00:16:45,199 --> 00:16:47,120
question of forming alliances so

432
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:48,959
these parties they have a grouping in

433
00:16:48,959 --> 00:16:50,639
the european parliament

434
00:16:50,639 --> 00:16:53,680
and and they try this way to form

435
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,079
alliances and and to compete with other

436
00:16:56,079 --> 00:16:58,480
parties both in the system but also

437
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,480
in the european parliament but what i do

438
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,000
want to say to end

439
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,880
my response is that i think while this

440
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,119
as i said can be an exhilarating

441
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,160
uh question of accelerating the message

442
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:11,679
i don't think it's a structural issue

443
00:17:11,679 --> 00:17:13,280
that is able to gain

444
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,520
them support and i think if when we do

445
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:16,959
touch upon the question of

446
00:17:16,959 --> 00:17:18,720
of the causes of support i think these

447
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,880
are far more um

448
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,119
structural and and far more deeply

449
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:24,240
ingrained um

450
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,640
than that i don't think inevitably their

451
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,240
nationalism

452
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,000
is a weakness because that way they will

453
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,600
never really be able to forge

454
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,720
proper international alliances thank you

455
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:36,000
thank you so much stephanie

456
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,240
could we have the result of the slido

457
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:39,520
poll now

458
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,918
just asking our colleagues

459
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,280
there we go okay so social media is

460
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,120
considered the biggest driver

461
00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:52,640
uh followed by uh increasing economic

462
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:54,000
disparities

463
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,400
and then the mutual support of

464
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,640
authoritarian governments and parties

465
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,880
if you want the internationalism and

466
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:01,919
finally

467
00:18:01,919 --> 00:18:05,360
the smallest factor is the illiberalism

468
00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:06,799
of the woke left

469
00:18:06,799 --> 00:18:09,280
well some right-wing extremists would

470
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:10,640
deeply disagree with this

471
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,440
but um that's what we're here to discuss

472
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,200
i would like to continue now

473
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,919
with uh the next kickoff speaker david

474
00:18:17,919 --> 00:18:18,559
epson

475
00:18:18,559 --> 00:18:21,520
and indeed uh we would like to focus on

476
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:21,840
this

477
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:23,760
this one factor that was considered the

478
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:25,440
most important by you

479
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:30,160
uh social media and and the internet

480
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,039
and i would like to ask you david how

481
00:18:33,039 --> 00:18:34,000
important

482
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,760
are social media for the growth of

483
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:37,120
right-wing extremism

484
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:39,919
are they more of a driver more of an

485
00:18:39,919 --> 00:18:41,039
accelerator

486
00:18:41,039 --> 00:18:43,360
or just a vehicle like any other

487
00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:45,120
instrument that is being used

488
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:48,400
uh david the floor is yours oh thank you

489
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:49,280
roland

490
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,440
um yeah i mean it's it's an interesting

491
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,120
question but it's it's not black and

492
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:53,919
white

493
00:18:53,919 --> 00:18:57,280
um obviously um you know social media

494
00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,000
internet platforms uh permeate every

495
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:00,799
aspect

496
00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:03,200
of our lives these days so you know as

497
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:04,880
tempting as it is to blame

498
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:06,720
every negative externality that is

499
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,480
arisen in society

500
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,840
um every disappointment um every outrage

501
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,000
uh to lay that at the feet of mark

502
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,919
zuckerberg as tempting as that is

503
00:19:15,919 --> 00:19:18,160
um i don't think that we can do that uh

504
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:19,520
exclusively

505
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,120
so i don't know if terrorism and

506
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:24,080
extremism um uh

507
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,480
is caused by social media you know it

508
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,400
per se in a in a vacuum

509
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,000
um but we do have to acknowledge that

510
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,640
um it is a accelerant it is a

511
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,080
facilitator in terms of

512
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,160
allowing extremists on the far right and

513
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:39,440
elsewhere to

514
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,919
communicate to expand their networks to

515
00:19:41,919 --> 00:19:43,360
propagandize

516
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:46,559
um to recruit uh even in some cases to

517
00:19:46,559 --> 00:19:49,520
to raise money that's just uh the nature

518
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:49,919
of

519
00:19:49,919 --> 00:19:52,559
the platforms um so when you look at it

520
00:19:52,559 --> 00:19:54,640
it's really kind of a two-pronged answer

521
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,039
you know do extremists misuse social

522
00:19:57,039 --> 00:19:58,080
media

523
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,400
do terrorists misuse internet platforms

524
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:01,679
um to grow

525
00:20:01,679 --> 00:20:03,440
and and to expand their message and to

526
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,440
expand their membership yes absolutely

527
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:06,320
um

528
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,000
on the other side are social media

529
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,000
companies and internet media platforms

530
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,000
are they doing enough to curtail this

531
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,120
this misuse

532
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:15,280
uh because it's not just to say enough

533
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,120
that terrorists are using social media

534
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:19,440
to expand and recruit and propagandize

535
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:20,799
you also have to look at the platforms

536
00:20:20,799 --> 00:20:22,720
themselves and what steps are

537
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,120
are they taking to curtail this type of

538
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:26,320
use and

539
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,280
if if they're not stepping in in the

540
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:30,720
appropriate ways they're not taking the

541
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,360
opportunities to curtail such misuse

542
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:35,280
then obviously they're part and parcel

543
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,679
um to the problem of extremism

544
00:20:37,679 --> 00:20:41,120
um online just on on the first issue

545
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:43,520
by nature social media platforms they

546
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:44,960
connect people people with similar

547
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:46,400
backgrounds people with similar

548
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,720
interests they're also exclusionary in

549
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,320
terms of once you get into a group on

550
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,640
social media it's very easy to

551
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,080
exclude opposing viewpoints moderating

552
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,080
viewpoints so it's the perfect platform

553
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,000
for these kind of in-group dynamics that

554
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,200
the previous speaker

555
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,880
just just uh announced it's also a great

556
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,039
environment for these kind of propaganda

557
00:21:09,039 --> 00:21:11,760
and ideological feedback loops

558
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,840
so the information comes in it gets

559
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:14,799
circulated

560
00:21:14,799 --> 00:21:16,240
you can drown out kind of again

561
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:17,919
moderating voices uh

562
00:21:17,919 --> 00:21:20,320
and perpetuate the kind of process of

563
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:21,600
radicalization

564
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,000
on these these platforms the last

565
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,360
speaker also kind of mentioned and this

566
00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:27,039
goes to the question that you asked

567
00:21:27,039 --> 00:21:28,480
the ability to kind of communicate

568
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,559
outside of your community

569
00:21:30,559 --> 00:21:33,600
one thing we've seen with extreme

570
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,280
far right and the creation of these

571
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,360
transnational right-wing networks

572
00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:39,039
is the use of social media to connect

573
00:21:39,039 --> 00:21:40,880
outside borders

574
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:42,960
the extreme right-wing used to be very

575
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:44,600
community-based it was very

576
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,000
ethno-nationalist-based

577
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,520
and now we've seen that there's this

578
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,679
kind of transnational creation of these

579
00:21:49,679 --> 00:21:50,960
groups where you're putting aside these

580
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,720
national differences

581
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:54,640
in favor of an adoption of a more kind

582
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,280
of transnational

583
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,840
identitarian ideology

584
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:01,840
that can unite people on really racial

585
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,360
bounds as opposed to

586
00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:06,480
to national uh bounds and so yes when

587
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:07,679
you see when you find different

588
00:22:07,679 --> 00:22:08,960
attackers

589
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,840
who are motivated by right-wing

590
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:12,720
motivations

591
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,120
they're drawing upon um manifestos and

592
00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:16,720
motivations and tactics that may have

593
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:17,840
occurred

594
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,039
in different countries and they're

595
00:22:19,039 --> 00:22:21,280
citing each other whether it's in uh

596
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,720
germany or norway or poet or el paso

597
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,559
or christ church you kind of have this

598
00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:28,480
commonality of messages and this

599
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,640
commonality of tactics

600
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,320
on the internet i would also note that

601
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,159
there's really this this really is kind

602
00:22:34,159 --> 00:22:36,559
of a digital native phenomenon

603
00:22:36,559 --> 00:22:39,360
the growth of this neo-nazi

604
00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:40,640
accelerationist

605
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,559
type movement which is amongst younger

606
00:22:42,559 --> 00:22:43,679
neo-nazi

607
00:22:43,679 --> 00:22:45,679
members and extreme right-wing members

608
00:22:45,679 --> 00:22:47,919
um where there's this subculture of of

609
00:22:47,919 --> 00:22:49,039
of memes

610
00:22:49,039 --> 00:22:52,080
um and music uh and

611
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:53,919
symbols where you have this now you can

612
00:22:53,919 --> 00:22:55,200
see that you know

613
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,480
a member of the far right in um in the

614
00:22:58,480 --> 00:22:59,919
us who might have previously been part

615
00:22:59,919 --> 00:23:01,520
of a neoconfederate secessionist

616
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:02,240
movement

617
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:03,760
is kind of adopting the same language

618
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:05,360
and the same skull masks and the same

619
00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:06,240
imagery

620
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,880
um as an extreme right-wing member um in

621
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:10,880
germany or from some kind of nordic

622
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,159
uh resistant movement so the platforms

623
00:23:14,159 --> 00:23:14,960
clearly are

624
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:16,720
being used to facilitate this type of

625
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,400
activity i would just add that

626
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,320
as i mentioned in my opening of my

627
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,080
remarks you have the tech companies

628
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:23,039
themselves

629
00:23:23,039 --> 00:23:25,280
which i think because of ideology in one

630
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:26,640
hand and the business model on the other

631
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:27,280
hand

632
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,520
may not be doing enough to identify and

633
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,760
interrupt this this type of activity

634
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,640
on the um the culture aspect of it

635
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,880
there's this kind of libertarian utopian

636
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,400
mindset that means that

637
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:39,760
the very nature of connecting people

638
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,400
will always result in positive outcomes

639
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,159
it will always lend to democracy

640
00:23:44,159 --> 00:23:46,000
movements and there's taken a while to

641
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,520
re to realize that their platforms can

642
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,120
be used for good and bad just like any

643
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:50,000
kind of communication

644
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,919
system that's been a hindrance and we

645
00:23:51,919 --> 00:23:53,279
also look at the business model which

646
00:23:53,279 --> 00:23:54,640
really is about

647
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,480
keeping people on the platforms as long

648
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,400
as possible engage as long as possible

649
00:23:58,400 --> 00:23:58,960
and this

650
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,200
leads to the deployment of certain

651
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:02,880
methods certain algorithms

652
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,799
which draw users to more incendiary

653
00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:10,640
controversial um conspiratorial type

654
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:11,360
content

655
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:13,760
which certainly doesn't mitigate the

656
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:14,880
effects of

657
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,559
the radicalization amongst these

658
00:24:16,559 --> 00:24:18,880
networks so certainly

659
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,600
um ultimate responsibility relies with

660
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:22,799
the individual extremists and the

661
00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:23,600
terrorists who

662
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,200
engage in these activities and propagate

663
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,520
this ideology and commit uh terrorist uh

664
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:28,480
attacks

665
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:29,760
at the same time we have to look at

666
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,200
social media companies who operate these

667
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:32,000
platforms and

668
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,600
question whether they're doing enough

669
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,200
and taking sufficient steps

670
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,600
to mitigate and pressure and disrupt

671
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,039
this kind of extreme right wing activity

672
00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:44,159
thanks david um and

673
00:24:44,159 --> 00:24:45,760
i already have a couple of questions

674
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,240
from the audience here um

675
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,799
i will nevertheless first of all take

676
00:24:50,799 --> 00:24:51,919
our last speaker

677
00:24:51,919 --> 00:24:55,360
um from from the kickoffs um see me on

678
00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:56,480
tomokos

679
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,840
and ask him simeon in assessing the rise

680
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,000
of right-wing extremism

681
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,360
leftist analysts and actress politicians

682
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:08,880
like to emphasize socioeconomic factors

683
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,120
the rise of poverty the rise of the

684
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:13,279
despair rising disparities between poor

685
00:25:13,279 --> 00:25:14,480
and rich

686
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,520
between countries in the pandemic so

687
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:18,159
it's all

688
00:25:18,159 --> 00:25:20,480
it's all about the economy stupid if you

689
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,080
want in their eyes

690
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:23,919
and then you have you have more

691
00:25:23,919 --> 00:25:25,200
conservative

692
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,679
commentators such as for example francis

693
00:25:27,679 --> 00:25:28,559
fukuyama

694
00:25:28,559 --> 00:25:32,400
with his recent book identity who

695
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,200
explain the rise of right-wing extremism

696
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,159
by identity politics and actually more

697
00:25:40,159 --> 00:25:43,440
cultural questions questions of how

698
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,919
how groups look at each other how groups

699
00:25:45,919 --> 00:25:48,240
are treated by the rest of society

700
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,000
and and this also ties into

701
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,000
the fourth option on the slider poll

702
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,039
that i put in there

703
00:25:55,039 --> 00:25:57,600
the illiberalism of the woke left there

704
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,120
is a whole school out there

705
00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:02,799
which claims that it is the intolerance

706
00:26:02,799 --> 00:26:06,000
of wokism starting with u.s

707
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,240
universities going to also british

708
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,240
continental european universities and

709
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:10,799
then

710
00:26:10,799 --> 00:26:13,520
uh media and and and political

711
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:14,880
establishments

712
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,840
uh which causes people to counter react

713
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,440
and what we see in right-wing extremism

714
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:20,720
is just a reaction to that

715
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,120
so these are two schools of thought and

716
00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:24,000
i would like you to

717
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,480
kind of offer a synthesis you're greek

718
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:27,600
so

719
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,520
give us a synthesis please thank you

720
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,440
thank you roland and i

721
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,279
thank globsec actually for this

722
00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:34,960
opportunity

723
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,279
i hope that we'll find some working

724
00:26:37,279 --> 00:26:39,039
relationship between this important

725
00:26:39,039 --> 00:26:40,640
event that you organize

726
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,320
in this part of the world we are

727
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,080
emerging as a

728
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:45,840
we like to think as an important event

729
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,760
in the southeast europe so i hope that

730
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,039
we find

731
00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:51,120
joint efforts that we do jointly

732
00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:52,080
together

733
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:53,760
to respond directly to your question i

734
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,919
will speak actually as a citizen rather

735
00:26:55,919 --> 00:26:57,200
than you know as an expert i don't

736
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:58,480
consider myself

737
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,640
myself an expert because uh being a

738
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,559
conference organizer sometimes we see

739
00:27:02,559 --> 00:27:03,840
things horizontally

740
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,440
we don't have the time to go in depth

741
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,120
but i would

742
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:09,440
like to say that undoubtedly both

743
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:10,159
factors

744
00:27:10,159 --> 00:27:12,159
that you mentioned are feeding each

745
00:27:12,159 --> 00:27:13,760
other

746
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,840
the rising equality in the last years

747
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,440
has led a whole group of

748
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,799
working class citizens unprotected

749
00:27:20,799 --> 00:27:22,640
and unsafe if you like to manufacture

750
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,399
changes that are where all are

751
00:27:24,399 --> 00:27:26,240
experiencing nowadays

752
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,159
jobs are being shipped overseas or

753
00:27:28,159 --> 00:27:29,520
becoming obsolete

754
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,520
to mention what happened in greece five

755
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,200
percent of the total population the

756
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:34,399
youngest

757
00:27:34,399 --> 00:27:36,480
back during the more severe economic

758
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:37,600
crisis we have had

759
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,600
they went abroad i mean you know and we

760
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,440
had a huge brain drain which i don't

761
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:42,480
know how we're going

762
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,960
to bring back all these people therefore

763
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,440
the big debate at the time in greece

764
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,159
was whom to blame i mean the weak and

765
00:27:50,159 --> 00:27:51,919
confused policies of the governments at

766
00:27:51,919 --> 00:27:53,440
the time the economic elites of the

767
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:54,640
country with the fat

768
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,080
you know salaries etc so that was where

769
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,039
a lot of extreme left wing and extreme

770
00:28:01,039 --> 00:28:02,000
wing rhetoric

771
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,039
converged this is this is my view and

772
00:28:05,039 --> 00:28:07,600
the huge changes on the economic front

773
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,320
created also rapid changes in the social

774
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:11,200
norms

775
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,039
the rise i think in my view of the

776
00:28:13,039 --> 00:28:14,480
neo-fascist group in greece

777
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,720
you remember the golden dawn was only

778
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:17,760
made possible

779
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,720
during that period of time the situation

780
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,399
was also fueled of course by the

781
00:28:22,399 --> 00:28:24,159
uncontrolled immigration which is a

782
00:28:24,159 --> 00:28:25,200
major issue

783
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:26,799
i think that is going to come in the

784
00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:28,640
years ahead unfortunately and especially

785
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:29,600
the creation

786
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,520
of the immigrant ghettos we have had in

787
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:32,960
many parts of greece

788
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:34,559
the absolute lack of integration

789
00:28:34,559 --> 00:28:36,399
policies created the rise of these

790
00:28:36,399 --> 00:28:37,440
forces

791
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,919
and needless to say that this was

792
00:28:39,919 --> 00:28:41,600
turbocharged by the internet and the

793
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:42,880
social media

794
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,279
that was what happened in greece it is a

795
00:28:45,279 --> 00:28:46,320
fact i think that

796
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,640
we all live in times of the eventual

797
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,480
collapse of the social

798
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,960
structure of the past century and the

799
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,600
rise of individualism which has weakened

800
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,000
people's sense of belonging this is my

801
00:28:58,000 --> 00:28:58,720
thought

802
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,559
for example less people are members of

803
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:02,640
political parties or trade unions

804
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,360
even football clubs see their membership

805
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,279
falling these days especially in younger

806
00:29:07,279 --> 00:29:09,279
generations there is a gap

807
00:29:09,279 --> 00:29:11,840
of representation for many people and

808
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,240
extreme right wing groups are eager

809
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,559
to exploit this psychological factor i

810
00:29:16,559 --> 00:29:18,480
feel that modern societies are

811
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:19,520
fragmented

812
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,919
and common experience are dwiddling many

813
00:29:21,919 --> 00:29:24,080
people without a well-paying job feel

814
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,559
that all that is left to do is to defend

815
00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:27,919
themselves

816
00:29:27,919 --> 00:29:30,159
against the elites and whichever themes

817
00:29:30,159 --> 00:29:31,600
these elites are

818
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,399
in favor my last point which is a rather

819
00:29:34,399 --> 00:29:35,120
question it

820
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,120
is not a you know remark and perhaps

821
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,880
later on we can discuss is

822
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,240
what is the role of the political

823
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,080
leadership in all this

824
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,520
because i have to tell you what is

825
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,200
happening in greece these days

826
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,640
the far left the far right party is not

827
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:49,679
getting more than

828
00:29:49,679 --> 00:29:51,840
one percent of the polls compared with

829
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,279
10 percent that it was getting a few

830
00:29:53,279 --> 00:29:54,480
years ago

831
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,679
and even the uh left party i mean is

832
00:29:57,679 --> 00:29:59,760
very weak this day so i would like to

833
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:01,120
ask the experts because i'm not an

834
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:02,480
expert i must tell you

835
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,080
what is the role of the political

836
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:05,520
leadership in all this

837
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:06,799
discussion that we're having this

838
00:30:06,799 --> 00:30:09,039
morning thank you very much excellent

839
00:30:09,039 --> 00:30:10,240
question to end

840
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,200
an answer um and we will certainly

841
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,200
debate that in the remaining 20 minutes

842
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:16,480
that we have here

843
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,960
uh i would now like to take some of the

844
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,720
questions that came in here

845
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,840
uh through the slido function on the

846
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,360
globsec app

847
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,120
and i would try to bundle them a little

848
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:29,440
bit

849
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,840
there are two concerning extremism and

850
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,480
terrorism

851
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,679
there's there's one um i mean actually

852
00:30:37,679 --> 00:30:38,559
uh

853
00:30:38,559 --> 00:30:41,760
both should go to michael chertoff

854
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,720
uh so why does it appear so much harder

855
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,799
to prosecute and convict

856
00:30:46,799 --> 00:30:49,840
far-right extremists on terrorism

857
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:50,960
charges

858
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,919
and the other one is what can we do

859
00:30:53,919 --> 00:30:55,840
about terrorists operating through

860
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,720
international and national legal fronts

861
00:30:58,720 --> 00:30:59,519
that is to say

862
00:30:59,519 --> 00:31:02,559
ngos and getting funding for them so

863
00:31:02,559 --> 00:31:03,840
this is obviously the

864
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:05,600
question to michael chertoff floor is

865
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,918
yours

866
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:09,919
thank you well first of all the good

867
00:31:09,919 --> 00:31:12,320
news is if you look at what's happened

868
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,640
in the wake of january 6

869
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,919
i believe over 400 people have been

870
00:31:17,919 --> 00:31:21,039
charged with various criminal offenses

871
00:31:21,039 --> 00:31:24,720
relating to the violent acting out that

872
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,919
we saw at the capitol on january 6.

873
00:31:27,919 --> 00:31:30,320
so i do think we're going to see a rise

874
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,519
in cases now we don't actually have a

875
00:31:33,519 --> 00:31:34,799
specific

876
00:31:34,799 --> 00:31:37,840
domestic terrorism criminal statute

877
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,679
but we have a number of other criminal

878
00:31:39,679 --> 00:31:41,279
statutes which easily

879
00:31:41,279 --> 00:31:44,559
apply including hate crimes

880
00:31:44,559 --> 00:31:48,000
and violations of civil rights and

881
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,480
obviously you know act other acts of

882
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:51,519
violence

883
00:31:51,519 --> 00:31:55,120
so there are plenty of legal avenues

884
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:56,880
available to the government and as i

885
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,720
said earlier

886
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,360
the administration has now unveiled a

887
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:02,960
strategy to make

888
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,840
domestic violent terrorism a priority in

889
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,600
counterterrorism

890
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,320
and that means uh collecting more

891
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:11,679
information

892
00:32:11,679 --> 00:32:13,519
coordinating with state and local

893
00:32:13,519 --> 00:32:14,880
officials

894
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,080
and coming up with effective strategies

895
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,279
to prevent and disrupt terrorist

896
00:32:21,279 --> 00:32:22,159
activity

897
00:32:22,159 --> 00:32:24,799
and also to divert people who are

898
00:32:24,799 --> 00:32:26,559
beginning to move in the direction of

899
00:32:26,559 --> 00:32:28,000
violence away from that

900
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,799
and essentially to deprogram them so

901
00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:33,360
that i think is very effective

902
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,799
in terms of ngos or

903
00:32:36,799 --> 00:32:38,640
international organizations that are

904
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,200
supporting domestic terrorism

905
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,279
at least i'm not aware that we've seen a

906
00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:45,440
lot of operational support

907
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,760
at this point um internationally for

908
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,880
u.s domestic terrorists from overseas

909
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,519
we've seen moral support and we've seen

910
00:32:55,519 --> 00:32:57,840
people going online and encouraging it

911
00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,360
and as i said earlier

912
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,200
some of this i think is actually driven

913
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,440
by particularly the russians

914
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:04,720
but i don't know that we've seen

915
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,399
financial support or operational support

916
00:33:08,399 --> 00:33:11,120
but i do think that again as we increase

917
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:11,919
the focus

918
00:33:11,919 --> 00:33:15,519
on these particular violent threats

919
00:33:15,519 --> 00:33:19,200
we will certainly uncover or nes support

920
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,440
domestic terrorist acts at an

921
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,919
international level with operational or

922
00:33:23,919 --> 00:33:25,120
financial

923
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,480
assistance okay

924
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,039
thank you very much i would now before

925
00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:32,960
continuing with the questions i got on

926
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:34,159
slido here

927
00:33:34,159 --> 00:33:37,039
i would like to give the floor to uh

928
00:33:37,039 --> 00:33:38,799
someone

929
00:33:38,799 --> 00:33:41,519
connected to us via zoom from india and

930
00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:43,440
please introduce yourself very briefly

931
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,120
and then ask your question

932
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,159
floor is yours oh thank you

933
00:33:48,159 --> 00:33:50,799
i'm dr vivek mishra from the indian

934
00:33:50,799 --> 00:33:52,480
council of world affairs this is a

935
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:53,760
government think tank here and the

936
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:54,960
oldest think tank

937
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:56,960
dealing with international relations and

938
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,480
other related issues

939
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,799
my question is regarding the health of

940
00:34:00,799 --> 00:34:02,240
democracy

941
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,399
increasingly we are seeing populism both

942
00:34:04,399 --> 00:34:06,399
on the left and the right fronts

943
00:34:06,399 --> 00:34:08,960
making home uh inside democracies in the

944
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:10,960
health of democracy

945
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,280
on the you know on one side you have

946
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,280
issues like cultural nationalism and

947
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:16,719
conservative politics

948
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,399
versus the left populism that we have

949
00:34:20,399 --> 00:34:23,839
which are so-called pro-people issues uh

950
00:34:23,839 --> 00:34:25,760
and they are stacked in democracies

951
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,159
increasingly in in the global south

952
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:30,879
uh against one another now and if you

953
00:34:30,879 --> 00:34:32,320
leave these two out

954
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,079
then there is uh you know the risk of

955
00:34:34,079 --> 00:34:35,520
elite politics thriving

956
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,760
uh between these two extremes so how do

957
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,760
we reconcile all these for achieving a

958
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,440
deeper democracy is what

959
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,199
uh i'm asking today thank you thank you

960
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:44,719
for the opportunity

961
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,560
and thank you for the question i would

962
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,719
like to give that to ivan bartosz

963
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,040
well how healthy is our democracy and

964
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,879
how would you answer that question uh

965
00:34:52,879 --> 00:34:55,119
it also thank you for the question and

966
00:34:55,119 --> 00:34:56,719
it also i will use

967
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,960
uh that part of the speeches for some

968
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:00,000
very beginning

969
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,720
what can politician actually do right

970
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:03,599
and uh

971
00:35:03,599 --> 00:35:07,119
it's regaining the trust uh as far

972
00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:09,599
as i'm concerned and it's the way how we

973
00:35:09,599 --> 00:35:11,200
wanna do politics

974
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,440
is just you know you have to act

975
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:14,640
transparently

976
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,280
you just cannot lie not even within the

977
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:18,480
campaign

978
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,400
because the lack of trust to the

979
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:21,760
politics and

980
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,359
politics they represent is just based on

981
00:35:25,359 --> 00:35:28,160
you don't lead by example that means you

982
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,960
don't have to be like a super nice guy

983
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:32,720
you know you can be tough politician you

984
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:34,480
know fighting the crime you know

985
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,599
you can in the fair political discussion

986
00:35:37,599 --> 00:35:38,640
beat your opponent

987
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:41,520
with arguments right it's everything is

988
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:42,160
legit

989
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,280
but you cannot lie to the people and uh

990
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,760
i believe and it wasn't mentioned in

991
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:48,480
here

992
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,680
but why you are looking for identity by

993
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:52,400
yourself

994
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,880
because you cannot be proud of your work

995
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,320
you don't see a future

996
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,040
in your commitment to the society then

997
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:00,320
the extremists

998
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,560
online and even some politics within our

999
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,400
democracy in czech republic

1000
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,280
emphasize that feeling within the people

1001
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:07,760
threat

1002
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,560
threatening them you know with no future

1003
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,800
with migration crisis which completely

1004
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,040
went around the czech republic it didn't

1005
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:16,160
hurt us people were

1006
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:17,839
passing to germany sorry to the german

1007
00:36:17,839 --> 00:36:19,680
people and uh

1008
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,160
once you use that it's just never never

1009
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:23,599
ending circle

1010
00:36:23,599 --> 00:36:26,480
because you are captured in them lies so

1011
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:27,680
first you have to

1012
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,079
give a future to the people they can

1013
00:36:30,079 --> 00:36:31,680
believe themselves they can be happy

1014
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:33,040
about their life

1015
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:34,640
and then you have to regain the trust if

1016
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:36,480
you take a look to the north

1017
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,480
when the government is open not just

1018
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,240
open excess data

1019
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:42,000
but if there is an issue you describe

1020
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,160
the issue no matter how bad it is

1021
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,079
and you describe the people the way how

1022
00:36:46,079 --> 00:36:47,440
you're gonna solve it

1023
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,400
it's a partnership and it was a little

1024
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:51,920
bit mentioned in there

1025
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,720
but that let's say even suffering part

1026
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:56,240
of the society

1027
00:36:56,240 --> 00:36:58,560
never had you know this understood

1028
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,000
understandable voice

1029
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,800
of them it was often ignored and that

1030
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,359
makes a place to actually extremist

1031
00:37:05,359 --> 00:37:08,079
and populist to just you know pick up

1032
00:37:08,079 --> 00:37:10,320
the glove and use it in the campaigns

1033
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,680
and as far as i believe you cannot

1034
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,880
have ambition to change the society it's

1035
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,560
it's just the optimistic approach

1036
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,280
if you don't believe to the individual

1037
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,040
and this regaining the trust

1038
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,200
and then social media can help us

1039
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:26,880
because politician

1040
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,760
can broadcast himself widely he's not

1041
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:30,800
dependent even

1042
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,079
on the on the public public media

1043
00:37:34,079 --> 00:37:36,880
and it could be used as a tool by

1044
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:38,560
politicians to actually fight

1045
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,680
those extreme wings in politics and

1046
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,440
one thing that was mentioned in here as

1047
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,040
a tool remember

1048
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,760
when there was arabian spring we all

1049
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,160
believed that social media help people

1050
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,040
to organize themselves against regime

1051
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:54,720
you know even in the turkish

1052
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:57,359
turkish opposition but then when it was

1053
00:37:57,359 --> 00:37:59,760
captured by the totalitarian government

1054
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,560
or specific leader it was abused to

1055
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:03,119
actually

1056
00:38:03,119 --> 00:38:05,280
put people in jail and control the

1057
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,520
narrative and use the propaganda

1058
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,880
so each technology can be abused

1059
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,760
used in a good way but in very end you

1060
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,200
get to the individual

1061
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,440
on one side as a citizen and to the

1062
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:18,240
leader

1063
00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:21,040
so as long as we can adapt lead by

1064
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:21,920
example

1065
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,880
especially through truthfully described

1066
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,560
issues and your politics

1067
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,640
you can regain the trust and we've got

1068
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:29,599
almost

1069
00:38:29,599 --> 00:38:31,920
nothing to afraid except the terrorist

1070
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,200
organization

1071
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,920
which uh the fight is their everyday

1072
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:36,320
life

1073
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,320
they actually don't want to introduce

1074
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,160
the change because that

1075
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,800
fear is what feeds them provided they

1076
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,280
don't forget when they come in power

1077
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:46,960
yeah because sometimes you know what

1078
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,040
happens yeah but i totally agree with

1079
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,880
you i mean regaining the trust

1080
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,520
is a very important component easy to

1081
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:54,160
lose

1082
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:58,079
it's hard to regain indeed indeed

1083
00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:00,480
we've got it's heating up now here in

1084
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:01,119
the

1085
00:39:01,119 --> 00:39:04,560
in the slider function uh so we have

1086
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,839
uh 12 minutes left so let's uh let's

1087
00:39:07,839 --> 00:39:10,640
really shorten our answers and i would

1088
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:11,760
now like to

1089
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,240
uh to ask the census censorship question

1090
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:15,599
ilya shashko

1091
00:39:15,599 --> 00:39:18,720
asked how to find the border between

1092
00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:20,880
fighting the extremism in the internet

1093
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:22,480
and total censorship

1094
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,599
also has something to do with the uh

1095
00:39:25,599 --> 00:39:27,680
illiberalism of the left because you

1096
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:28,800
know that some

1097
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,640
right-wing narratives are that the big

1098
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,400
tech companies in fact

1099
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,680
impose a uh a biased

1100
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,400
uh uh as kind of censorship on social

1101
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,160
media which is why you have to create

1102
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:41,839
your own or whatever

1103
00:39:41,839 --> 00:39:43,680
so i would like to ask david that

1104
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:44,880
question uh david

1105
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,960
what where is the red line between

1106
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:48,000
between censorship

1107
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:52,000
and reasonable uh uh defense against

1108
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,640
extremism

1109
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,240
i mean that's a great question it's the

1110
00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:57,440
million dollar question it's something

1111
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:58,880
that everyone has been wrestling with i

1112
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:00,560
think since the advent of these

1113
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,560
these social media platforms as ivan

1114
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:03,599
said you know

1115
00:40:03,599 --> 00:40:05,599
any communication tool can be used you

1116
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:09,119
can use for good it can be used um

1117
00:40:09,119 --> 00:40:11,119
for for nefarious purposes i mean i

1118
00:40:11,119 --> 00:40:13,040
think one example of this is in the us

1119
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,240
is in the case of of donald trump um

1120
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:18,160
you know again the speaker mentioned how

1121
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:19,520
individuals can use

1122
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,280
social media to communicate directly to

1123
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,359
the people uh to bypass

1124
00:40:23,359 --> 00:40:26,160
kind of these entrenched um political

1125
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,960
structures that may not be responsive to

1126
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,599
uh the needs of people who don't have

1127
00:40:31,599 --> 00:40:32,880
the proper access

1128
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,040
uh or money now some people can see that

1129
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:36,400
as a wonderful thing

1130
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:37,839
now you have donald trump who

1131
00:40:37,839 --> 00:40:39,440
communicated directly with the people

1132
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,440
he bypassed 17 other establishment

1133
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:43,200
candidates in the republican primary

1134
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,520
and he he defeated uh hillary clinton

1135
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,200
who basically represents the political

1136
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:48,079
establishment

1137
00:40:48,079 --> 00:40:50,079
uh in the united states um you know

1138
00:40:50,079 --> 00:40:51,119
pretty much for

1139
00:40:51,119 --> 00:40:53,440
for for a generation other people see

1140
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,920
this as a huge affront to democracy i

1141
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:57,280
mean some people see donald trump as

1142
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:58,960
basically the standard bearer for

1143
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,400
white supremacy uh in uh in the united

1144
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:03,200
states

1145
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,720
um and have taken action really to

1146
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:09,599
to uh limit his use of this social media

1147
00:41:09,599 --> 00:41:10,000
function

1148
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,720
really for for that purpose um so it

1149
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:13,599
kind of goes back

1150
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:16,800
to this issue of you know finding some

1151
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:17,680
kind of you know

1152
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,800
moderation between the

1153
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:22,000
the people who want to use these

1154
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:23,440
platforms to communicate directly to the

1155
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:24,720
people

1156
00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:27,760
and also defining in some sense you know

1157
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:28,400
what is

1158
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,160
a misuse and what is an affairs purpose

1159
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,160
of the internet on the latter case i

1160
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:33,520
don't think it's always as complicated

1161
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:34,800
as we make it out

1162
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,240
to be social media companies promulgate

1163
00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:39,440
terms and conditions

1164
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:43,040
uh terms of use for their platforms

1165
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,920
they routinely have identified things

1166
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:47,280
whether it's from

1167
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,319
adult consenting pornography to calls to

1168
00:41:50,319 --> 00:41:51,599
violence

1169
00:41:51,599 --> 00:41:54,480
to distribution of csam material things

1170
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,160
that are prescribed on the platforms

1171
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,680
and they deploy um individuals and also

1172
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,119
technologies to curtail this type of

1173
00:42:01,119 --> 00:42:03,200
activity for some reason when it comes

1174
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:03,680
to

1175
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:05,599
forms of of other kind of political

1176
00:42:05,599 --> 00:42:07,520
speech or extremist speech

1177
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,760
the companies are less likely or less

1178
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:11,920
inclined to utilize these same tools to

1179
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:13,440
prescribe that type of

1180
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,599
activity so i think that all reasonable

1181
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:16,880
people can come together and say look

1182
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:18,400
you have these terms of conditions

1183
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:19,920
you have individuals who are designated

1184
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,079
as terrorist um

1185
00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:23,920
individuals by the u.n by the eu by the

1186
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:25,200
us for example

1187
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:26,880
um obviously they shouldn't have access

1188
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:28,240
to these different platforms that's in

1189
00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:29,280
line with

1190
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:30,720
the social media companies terms and

1191
00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:32,079
conditions and the rules and it's also

1192
00:42:32,079 --> 00:42:32,960
in line with

1193
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:34,240
with common sense and i think if we

1194
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:35,760
refer back to these rules into common

1195
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:36,480
sense

1196
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,680
um it would be less problematic of a

1197
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:40,240
debate

1198
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:42,880
thank you thank you david uh i i have a

1199
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:44,560
question for daphne here

1200
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,800
and it concerns the factor of religion

1201
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,160
we haven't talked about this

1202
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,640
so far but i think it is it is quite

1203
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:51,599
significant

1204
00:42:51,599 --> 00:42:54,560
and the question by amanda coakley from

1205
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,160
vienna

1206
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,000
is how much in your opinion is the far

1207
00:42:58,000 --> 00:42:59,200
right supported or

1208
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:01,760
influenced by ultra-conservative

1209
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,440
christian organizations

1210
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,880
daphne what's the answer

1211
00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:10,079
so thank you i think i'm gonna i'm gonna

1212
00:43:10,079 --> 00:43:12,079
take this opportunity to link this

1213
00:43:12,079 --> 00:43:13,520
question with some of the things that

1214
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,760
i've heard been talked about

1215
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,800
uh in the panel generally about the the

1216
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:20,480
causes of the far-right religion being

1217
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:21,599
one of them i think

1218
00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:24,960
so the short answer to this question is

1219
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,079
some some role for some particular

1220
00:43:28,079 --> 00:43:29,359
country so that

1221
00:43:29,359 --> 00:43:32,560
this is mixed there is variation um

1222
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,839
it is quite closely linked in certain

1223
00:43:35,839 --> 00:43:37,839
countries we know for example that

1224
00:43:37,839 --> 00:43:39,359
that a lot of these parties are closely

1225
00:43:39,359 --> 00:43:41,040
linked to some whatever religious

1226
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,200
organizations we also know that in in

1227
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:44,240
some countries

1228
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:46,960
uh the far right is is more secular and

1229
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:48,640
so there is variation and i think just

1230
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:49,119
to

1231
00:43:49,119 --> 00:43:51,359
to broaden and put put my political

1232
00:43:51,359 --> 00:43:52,880
scientist heart a second

1233
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,520
and and broaden it i don't think i think

1234
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:56,960
i think what's important to emphasize

1235
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:57,839
here is that

1236
00:43:57,839 --> 00:44:01,040
that it's not one factor one thing i've

1237
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:02,480
heard in the panel being talked a lot

1238
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:02,960
about

1239
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,440
is the people so essentially we have

1240
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:07,280
this idea that the people vote for one

1241
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,119
thing for one reason

1242
00:44:09,119 --> 00:44:11,040
but that's not the case there is no such

1243
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,319
thing really as the people societies are

1244
00:44:14,319 --> 00:44:17,200
consist of various social groups with

1245
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:18,400
different preferences

1246
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,319
often clashing preferences now what the

1247
00:44:20,319 --> 00:44:21,839
far-right has done

1248
00:44:21,839 --> 00:44:24,880
is that it has managed to to gain broad

1249
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:26,079
coalitions

1250
00:44:26,079 --> 00:44:28,000
from many different societal groups who

1251
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:29,359
support them for different reasons

1252
00:44:29,359 --> 00:44:30,800
others for religion

1253
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:32,880
because they are ideological voters or

1254
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:34,160
nationalism also because they're

1255
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:35,520
ideological voters

1256
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,480
but others again for economic reasons or

1257
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:39,760
for trust reasons i

1258
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:41,839
agree with ivan there so these are the

1259
00:44:41,839 --> 00:44:43,599
protest voters so i think

1260
00:44:43,599 --> 00:44:45,599
that what we need to understand is that

1261
00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:46,800
in order to

1262
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,200
to to address the far right what we need

1263
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:50,560
to do is break

1264
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:52,960
these coalitions so instead of focusing

1265
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:53,680
on one

1266
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:55,440
one factor alone i think we need to

1267
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:56,880
understand why different

1268
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,760
core and different peripheral voters

1269
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,280
support these parties for different

1270
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:02,960
reasons and how these coalitions the

1271
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:04,400
voters can be

1272
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,160
somehow broken thank you

1273
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,640
thanks stephanie now five minutes

1274
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:11,680
remaining

1275
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:13,599
this is your last chance you people in

1276
00:45:13,599 --> 00:45:15,680
this room to ask a question at that

1277
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:16,880
microphone

1278
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,599
and if no one steps up to the challenge

1279
00:45:19,599 --> 00:45:20,800
then yes spam

1280
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:22,720
please would you come here briefly

1281
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:24,000
introduce yourself and then

1282
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,040
quickly ask you a question

1283
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:28,400
we have to work with a microphone

1284
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:29,839
because otherwise the online

1285
00:45:29,839 --> 00:45:33,839
participants can't hear you

1286
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,319
can you hear me yes yes good afternoon

1287
00:45:36,319 --> 00:45:38,319
everybody uh my name is jana

1288
00:45:38,319 --> 00:45:39,680
krideshwa i'm professor university

1289
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,240
california so i like to talk about the

1290
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:43,839
role of technology

1291
00:45:43,839 --> 00:45:45,839
uh but a little bit differently from

1292
00:45:45,839 --> 00:45:47,119
different point of view

1293
00:45:47,119 --> 00:45:50,160
um technology aggravating fears

1294
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:53,040
and insecurities voters voters losing

1295
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:53,920
jobs due

1296
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,960
to offshoring outsourcing or maybe

1297
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:00,000
simply due to china trade shock and

1298
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,480
you know giving the votes to populist

1299
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,240
leaders who promise

1300
00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:06,880
protectionist policies etc so how what

1301
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:07,920
do you think um

1302
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,560
in your view should governments do to

1303
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:11,839
address

1304
00:46:11,839 --> 00:46:14,560
this fear stemming from technological

1305
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,000
revolution in terms of

1306
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,800
i don't know fiscal policy or industrial

1307
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:20,720
policy or social policy

1308
00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:22,400
right and we also you know we've seen

1309
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,480
that um for example president bidens i

1310
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:25,599
know i'm closing

1311
00:46:25,599 --> 00:46:29,040
uh biden's fiscal stimulus was

1312
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,280
kind of um you know a step in that

1313
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:32,480
direction

1314
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:34,079
so i really appreciate your views thank

1315
00:46:34,079 --> 00:46:36,160
you i would like to give that question

1316
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,480
to ivan bartosz what would be your

1317
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,720
social and economic policy answer

1318
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:44,160
to the phenomena of marginalization and

1319
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:47,920
and and and uh anti-global globalization

1320
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:49,839
movements that we see

1321
00:46:49,839 --> 00:46:52,000
uh okay we have to consider that

1322
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:53,760
globalization is just a fact

1323
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,680
it show us in akavi there is nothing

1324
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:56,960
like specific

1325
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:00,880
you know island of uh positive deviation

1326
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:01,839
that would not be

1327
00:47:01,839 --> 00:47:04,240
touched by the global changes either

1328
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:06,560
it's climate or it's a virus

1329
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,720
obviously uh it's a prosperous society

1330
00:47:10,720 --> 00:47:12,880
uh we were talking about extremes on the

1331
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:14,400
left on the right side

1332
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,640
their combined rhetorics adding the

1333
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:18,640
catholic religion or whatever reason

1334
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,640
anti-vex and dye masks you have to found

1335
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,920
the sufficient line of the politics a

1336
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:26,480
little bit

1337
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,720
a little bit to the right that actually

1338
00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:30,720
leads to the prosperous society

1339
00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:33,599
which is free market degenerates you

1340
00:47:33,599 --> 00:47:34,160
know

1341
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,359
options for the people and the

1342
00:47:37,359 --> 00:47:40,079
treasury of the country and then you

1343
00:47:40,079 --> 00:47:40,880
have to have

1344
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:43,920
very strong and it's not a in the way in

1345
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:44,559
a bad way

1346
00:47:44,559 --> 00:47:47,920
it's socialis social system is often

1347
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,319
in europe thinks something is wrong but

1348
00:47:50,319 --> 00:47:52,640
obviously covey showed us how many

1349
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:53,119
people

1350
00:47:53,119 --> 00:47:56,000
could not make it so the rich society

1351
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:57,839
that generates the prosperity of the

1352
00:47:57,839 --> 00:47:58,800
country

1353
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,359
thinking of those people for whatever

1354
00:48:01,359 --> 00:48:02,559
particular reason

1355
00:48:02,559 --> 00:48:05,440
cannot reach the average wealth of

1356
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:06,800
having a good job

1357
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,720
sufficient education and that's the role

1358
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:10,400
of the state and

1359
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,960
we are members of the european union so

1360
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,280
that role and there was a china

1361
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,400
threat of economic growth we could

1362
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,119
you know and we will i believe address

1363
00:48:21,119 --> 00:48:21,440
those

1364
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,160
issues together our big concern is

1365
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:25,200
environmental

1366
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,760
responsible politics we are talking

1367
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,119
about

1368
00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:32,800
maybe future of the of the carbon tax

1369
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:34,720
that brings the companies back into

1370
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:36,800
europe because the only uh

1371
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,559
advantage they've got that they are in

1372
00:48:38,559 --> 00:48:40,400
the countries of a cheap labor

1373
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,640
and no environmental responsibility that

1374
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:43,680
they have to deal with

1375
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,119
so this common approach of not extremist

1376
00:48:47,119 --> 00:48:48,319
solution

1377
00:48:48,319 --> 00:48:51,200
and very pro-people-oriented in the

1378
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:52,720
matter of fact

1379
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:54,160
there are a lot of people who just

1380
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,680
cannot adapt to 21st century changes

1381
00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,400
and obviously they will not because they

1382
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,319
are either on the side of the society

1383
00:49:02,319 --> 00:49:05,040
or they turn the age when the change and

1384
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,040
adoption is very difficult for them

1385
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,359
that's the combination great concluding

1386
00:49:09,359 --> 00:49:10,079
remarks

1387
00:49:10,079 --> 00:49:12,880
i would like to formulate the takeaway

1388
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:13,599
here

1389
00:49:13,599 --> 00:49:15,839
and if you if i had to put it into one

1390
00:49:15,839 --> 00:49:17,119
sentence it would be

1391
00:49:17,119 --> 00:49:20,079
as there are many reasons many factors

1392
00:49:20,079 --> 00:49:20,640
involved

1393
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:23,520
in the rise of right-wing extremism

1394
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:25,200
there are also many factors involved in

1395
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,280
many aspects to the response to it

1396
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,400
and we have of course in insufficient

1397
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:31,359
time but we

1398
00:49:31,359 --> 00:49:33,839
we have touched upon a couple of those

1399
00:49:33,839 --> 00:49:34,559
points

1400
00:49:34,559 --> 00:49:36,800
and these are i would say the one of the

1401
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:38,880
major buzzwords was leadership

1402
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,520
leadership by politicians that has to be

1403
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,640
exercised better um

1404
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,319
there are socio-economic policy answers

1405
00:49:48,319 --> 00:49:51,839
uh there is also the the question of uh

1406
00:49:51,839 --> 00:49:54,720
better regulating uh social media and

1407
00:49:54,720 --> 00:49:55,599
the internet

1408
00:49:55,599 --> 00:49:57,680
and and that will take cooperation of

1409
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:58,800
many actors

1410
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:02,160
um respect of groups

1411
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,720
uh however justified or unjustified you

1412
00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:06,559
feel their resentment or their

1413
00:50:06,559 --> 00:50:09,839
their grievance may be um

1414
00:50:09,839 --> 00:50:12,319
and last but not least and maybe the

1415
00:50:12,319 --> 00:50:13,359
most difficult

1416
00:50:13,359 --> 00:50:16,160
buzzword here trust uh how to

1417
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,480
re-establish the eroding trust in our

1418
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,240
societies now

1419
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:21,680
i think with all like with all

1420
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:23,520
interesting debates we finish with more

1421
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:24,880
questions than answers

1422
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,280
but but we may still be confused but on

1423
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,119
a much higher level i suppose

1424
00:50:29,119 --> 00:50:32,240
uh i hope so uh thank you for for being

1425
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:34,079
here i would just want to announce that

1426
00:50:34,079 --> 00:50:34,559
in

1427
00:50:34,559 --> 00:50:37,920
10 minutes we have a session right here

1428
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:39,839
about the winners and losers of the

1429
00:50:39,839 --> 00:50:41,760
pandemic um

1430
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,720
and and uh sorry it's five minutes i

1431
00:50:44,720 --> 00:50:45,680
just here

1432
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,800
uh and uh in maria teresia the other

1433
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,720
big room there will be a session of you

1434
00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:52,000
from central europe

1435
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:53,839
future of the european union with the

1436
00:50:53,839 --> 00:50:55,280
foreign ministers of the

1437
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:57,359
wichigrad countries of slovakia czech

1438
00:50:57,359 --> 00:50:59,520
republic hungary and poland

1439
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:01,839
so i want to i want to thank you all for

1440
00:51:01,839 --> 00:51:02,720
being here

1441
00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:05,920
thank our online colleagues uh david

1442
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:09,280
michael and daphne and of course our two

1443
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:11,040
speakers here in the room

1444
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,160
simeon and evan thank you all

1445
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:23,839
and hope to see you soon thank you