1 00:00:00,110 --> 00:00:08,769 [Music] 2 00:00:09,140 --> 00:00:11,230 [Applause] 3 00:00:11,230 --> 00:00:14,080 [Music] 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:15,519 ladies and gentlemen 5 00:00:15,519 --> 00:00:17,920 please welcome the moderator of one of 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,199 the last sessions of globsec 2021 7 00:00:21,199 --> 00:00:23,050 emily tamkin 8 00:00:23,050 --> 00:00:26,129 [Music] 9 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,359 hello everyone uh last afternoon here at 10 00:00:31,359 --> 00:00:33,360 globe sec we are in the home stretch 11 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,680 and thank you for being with us um we 12 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:37,040 know that there are other events going 13 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:38,480 on we appreciate you being here 14 00:00:38,480 --> 00:00:41,680 uh this is only a 50-minute panel which 15 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:43,360 is not very much time to discuss 16 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,520 great power competition in east asia the 17 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,200 subject of this discussion 18 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,200 um so we are going to keep it 19 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:50,480 conversational 20 00:00:50,480 --> 00:00:52,960 lively and it's meant to be a discussion 21 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:54,079 so please do 22 00:00:54,079 --> 00:00:55,280 join in there will be an opportunity to 23 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,760 ask questions either here in this room 24 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,239 we have zoom questions and there is uh 25 00:01:00,239 --> 00:01:01,440 you can obviously submit them through 26 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,680 the globesec app 27 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:05,438 to start out i'm going to introduce our 28 00:01:05,438 --> 00:01:07,200 distinguished panelists they need no 29 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:08,560 introduction but that's my job so here 30 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:09,280 we go 31 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,080 um there is yasuki nakamaya he is the 32 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:13,520 state minister of defense joining us 33 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:14,560 from japan 34 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,360 we have bruno masiach here in person he 35 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:17,680 is 36 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,200 a senior research associate at the 37 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:20,640 wilford martin center for european 38 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:22,159 studies 39 00:01:22,159 --> 00:01:25,200 from my city dc we have tori tasig 40 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,119 she is a non-resident fellow at 41 00:01:27,119 --> 00:01:29,040 brookings and then we have here 42 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,320 kingo bruginska a policy director at the 43 00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:34,479 center for global europe at glebsec 44 00:01:34,479 --> 00:01:36,079 thank you all so much for being with me 45 00:01:36,079 --> 00:01:38,799 today bruno i want to start with you 46 00:01:38,799 --> 00:01:42,320 so i will um you know before we get into 47 00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:43,280 this discussion 48 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:44,799 which assumes that there is great power 49 00:01:44,799 --> 00:01:46,560 competition i've had 50 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,720 some discussions with people outside of 51 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,320 the united states who say 52 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:52,479 there is no great power competition this 53 00:01:52,479 --> 00:01:53,680 is a 54 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:55,680 framing invented by the americans to 55 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,920 justify opposition to china 56 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,439 to keep themselves relevant in the world 57 00:01:59,439 --> 00:02:02,719 etc what do you make of that 58 00:02:02,719 --> 00:02:05,119 well you you could make that argument uh 59 00:02:05,119 --> 00:02:06,880 i think uh 60 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:08,639 the idea of great power competition is 61 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,479 is very popular outside the u.s actually 62 00:02:10,479 --> 00:02:13,200 it's very popular in moscow for example 63 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,480 it seems to refer to the idea that 64 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,280 there are different polls of power in 65 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:20,879 fact when i listen to president biden 66 00:02:20,879 --> 00:02:22,000 these days it seems 67 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,840 to me that he's abandoning a bit the 68 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:25,760 notion of great power competition he's 69 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,360 going back to an older notion of a 70 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,200 global liberal order 71 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,040 and the power is rooted in the global 72 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:32,640 liberal order the united states 73 00:02:32,640 --> 00:02:35,040 stands as a kind of enforcer of that 74 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:36,000 order 75 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:37,519 but when we talked about great power 76 00:02:37,519 --> 00:02:39,280 competition in in in the latest 77 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,040 administration and the strategy papers 78 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:42,000 that came out 79 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,680 the notion was that the global liberal 80 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,280 order had eroded 81 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,519 and we were a bit back in the jungle 82 00:02:47,519 --> 00:02:49,599 with different polls of power 83 00:02:49,599 --> 00:02:53,200 and a certain uncertainty about 84 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:54,959 the number of those powers we knew that 85 00:02:54,959 --> 00:02:56,400 china the united states but then the 86 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,080 questions whether the european union was 87 00:02:58,080 --> 00:02:59,040 part of it 88 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:00,959 questions whether india could could rise 89 00:03:00,959 --> 00:03:02,159 to that position and 90 00:03:02,159 --> 00:03:03,680 questions about whether russia had a 91 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:05,200 role to play in this great power 92 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:06,400 competition 93 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,239 but clearly to me the idea of great 94 00:03:08,239 --> 00:03:09,760 power competition means 95 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,879 that each of these poles has its own 96 00:03:12,879 --> 00:03:14,640 ideological model 97 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:16,959 each of these poles has its own center 98 00:03:16,959 --> 00:03:18,959 of power 99 00:03:18,959 --> 00:03:21,519 is self-sufficient in some sense and so 100 00:03:21,519 --> 00:03:22,400 the question is 101 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,120 is this really the case or should we 102 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:26,239 still 103 00:03:26,239 --> 00:03:28,959 think that something like a global order 104 00:03:28,959 --> 00:03:30,239 still exists 105 00:03:30,239 --> 00:03:33,440 and still provide stability uh and you 106 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,360 know for some people 107 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,000 uh it was it was just trump that didn't 108 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,519 believe in the global liberal order but 109 00:03:39,519 --> 00:03:41,599 it's still solid and for others 110 00:03:41,599 --> 00:03:43,440 that order no longer makes sense it's 111 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:44,640 impossible to enforce 112 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:46,239 how do we enforce something against 113 00:03:46,239 --> 00:03:47,920 china and i guess that's the question 114 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:48,560 that 115 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,159 the by the administration will have to 116 00:03:50,159 --> 00:03:51,360 answer how do we enforce something 117 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:52,640 against russia how do you enforce 118 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:53,760 something against 119 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:55,280 against china right now we see that 120 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:56,879 there's powers of enforcement being 121 00:03:56,879 --> 00:03:58,159 quite weak 122 00:03:58,159 --> 00:03:59,599 well this is actually related to our 123 00:03:59,599 --> 00:04:01,280 poll question which is 124 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,040 what percentage of central and eastern 125 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:04,799 europeans is worried about china's 126 00:04:04,799 --> 00:04:06,480 rising economic power 127 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,280 so if you have the globe sec app you can 128 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:10,640 respond to this poll 129 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,959 and we will read out the answers at the 130 00:04:12,959 --> 00:04:14,080 end 131 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,199 um i want to go now to 132 00:04:17,199 --> 00:04:19,680 minister nakayama firstly i apologize 133 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,040 for mispronouncing your last name 134 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,120 in the opening remarks second of all 135 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:24,639 could you i mean this is about great 136 00:04:24,639 --> 00:04:26,639 power competition in east asia 137 00:04:26,639 --> 00:04:28,240 you are the only participant who is in 138 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:29,919 east asia can you give us the view from 139 00:04:29,919 --> 00:04:32,240 japan 140 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,520 okay thank you very much uh my japanese 141 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,440 name is so complicated always 142 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,320 so uh this is not your fault thank you 143 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:41,199 anyway 144 00:04:41,199 --> 00:04:44,400 so nice meeting you i'm from japan 145 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,440 and uh i i am living 146 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,479 just uh right in front of china 147 00:04:50,479 --> 00:04:53,360 and uh i know that uh they are communist 148 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:54,400 uh 149 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:56,160 you know the ruling party is a communist 150 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:57,919 party and uh 151 00:04:57,919 --> 00:05:01,120 you know in 1997 uh as you can see 152 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:02,880 what's what's what's going on at the 153 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:04,320 hong kong issue 154 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,440 or the human rights in wiggle or the 155 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:12,000 another issue about the you know ai like 156 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,560 i mean ai is it's actually that there is 157 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:15,520 a two meanings 158 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,880 for china one ai is an artificial island 159 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,840 the other ai is artificial intelligence 160 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:22,639 so they 161 00:05:22,639 --> 00:05:26,000 so the uh lots of dimensions uh what we 162 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:27,680 have to discuss about 163 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,479 but uh unfortunately the uh the china 164 00:05:30,479 --> 00:05:32,560 held the national people's congress in 165 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:33,120 march 166 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,360 and announced that the its difference 167 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:36,400 budget for 168 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,520 uh fiscal year 2021 was a 169 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,199 appropriate approximately u.s dollar to 170 00:05:43,199 --> 00:05:46,960 202 billion uh represented uh growth 171 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,919 about a program is appropriate symmetry 172 00:05:49,919 --> 00:05:51,680 6.8 173 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,039 uh compared to the previous fiscal year 174 00:05:55,039 --> 00:05:58,160 so the the china uh even the 175 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,360 after corona uh they are increasing the 176 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,120 budget for the military and uh so 177 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,520 especially we are really concerned about 178 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:08,960 the 179 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,720 china between taiwan there is a 180 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:17,280 taiwan strike we have a concern about 181 00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:19,680 the day before yesterday the chinese air 182 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:20,400 force 183 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,759 uh invaded uh to the taiwanese 184 00:06:23,759 --> 00:06:26,800 uh territory territorial you know the 185 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,880 sky uh above taiwan so 186 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,080 those kind of uh uh very uh 187 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:38,000 uh naughty activity by chinese pla 188 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,280 uh towards taiwan it's now uh 189 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:44,080 increasing the numbers of the the time 190 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:44,479 so 191 00:06:44,479 --> 00:06:50,560 uh and also uh when you focus to the uh 192 00:06:50,639 --> 00:06:53,680 that's east town east east china sea 193 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:57,599 and south china sea uh i brought 194 00:06:57,599 --> 00:07:00,840 like this uh photograph from the 195 00:07:00,840 --> 00:07:03,520 satellite uh 196 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,479 this this uh this at shell island used 197 00:07:06,479 --> 00:07:07,199 to be 198 00:07:07,199 --> 00:07:10,639 just a leaf you know very 199 00:07:10,639 --> 00:07:14,240 good it's a very natural reef 200 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,280 but within two three years 201 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,560 made a very very long runway with a 202 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,000 military base 203 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,520 so you can see more uh close to uh 204 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,720 four kilometers runway in 205 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,160 in this shell island so 206 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,440 the the lots of european countries uh 207 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,000 coming towards the uh south china sea 208 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:38,880 right now 209 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,919 and also the us military forces uh 210 00:07:41,919 --> 00:07:45,199 concerned about the area uh 211 00:07:45,199 --> 00:07:48,319 we are talking uh about and uh 212 00:07:48,319 --> 00:07:50,800 today i'm really glad that uh joining 213 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:51,840 this forum but 214 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,039 this forum actually held in europe 215 00:07:55,039 --> 00:07:57,840 and now that all now the people who 216 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:59,520 talking about this issue 217 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,120 is uh came from the united states 218 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,800 uh which we our allies and uh 219 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,000 i'd like to say and to mention that uh 220 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:13,120 the globe is a it's around and the 221 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:13,759 internet 222 00:08:13,759 --> 00:08:17,440 also there is no border in this century 223 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,800 so we have to talk not just 224 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,199 not just the trans-trans-atlantic 225 00:08:23,199 --> 00:08:24,160 relationship 226 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,800 but we also have to talk about the asia 227 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:27,360 issue 228 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,639 because that this taiwan strait issue 229 00:08:30,639 --> 00:08:33,919 is going to be relate to the all whole 230 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:34,640 nations 231 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,200 so thank you very much thank you um a 232 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:38,320 lot to impact there that we're going to 233 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,080 come back to throughout this discussion 234 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:41,760 but right now i want to talk about you 235 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,320 know minister you mentioned this 236 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,240 military conflict but there's also 237 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,959 a a political conflict right or what 238 00:08:48,959 --> 00:08:50,880 what kind of governance systems are we 239 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:52,320 going to live under 240 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,519 um troy you wrote a piece just 241 00:08:55,519 --> 00:08:58,720 recently that basically said that um 242 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:00,560 you know countries that are standing up 243 00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:02,959 to china and i apologize if i'm 244 00:09:02,959 --> 00:09:04,240 summarizing it incorrectly you couldn't 245 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:05,600 you can push back but basically the 246 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,040 countries that are standing up to china 247 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:07,680 can 248 00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:09,279 can do so democratically right can 249 00:09:09,279 --> 00:09:11,279 bolster the democratic institutions 250 00:09:11,279 --> 00:09:12,480 and that this will be an effective way 251 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,640 to counter china but 252 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,320 you know in the united states whether or 253 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:17,839 not you protect voting rights has become 254 00:09:17,839 --> 00:09:19,360 a partisan issue 255 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,080 there are examples throughout europe of 256 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:22,640 uh 257 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,959 democratic backsliding or whatever 258 00:09:24,959 --> 00:09:26,399 phrase you want to use to describe it so 259 00:09:26,399 --> 00:09:27,440 my question is 260 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,080 how can these countries that are 261 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:31,200 democratic and are 262 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:32,959 standing up to china how can they say 263 00:09:32,959 --> 00:09:34,640 they're doing that for democracy 264 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,399 when democracy is not being taken care 265 00:09:36,399 --> 00:09:38,880 of at home 266 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,320 big question uh first emily thank you 267 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:42,880 for 268 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,279 for introducing this this panel it's 269 00:09:45,279 --> 00:09:46,399 nice to be with everyone 270 00:09:46,399 --> 00:09:49,120 here today albeit virtually uh emily i 271 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:50,080 think your framing 272 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,040 is right so if we take a step back and 273 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,120 look at how the bind administration 274 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,480 is crafting its early world view i would 275 00:09:58,480 --> 00:09:58,959 say 276 00:09:58,959 --> 00:10:01,519 to start it was interesting to me that 277 00:10:01,519 --> 00:10:02,959 in the interim national security 278 00:10:02,959 --> 00:10:03,519 guidance 279 00:10:03,519 --> 00:10:05,680 there actually was no reference to great 280 00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:07,200 power competition 281 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:08,959 i think there are a number of reasons 282 00:10:08,959 --> 00:10:10,959 for that one is because 283 00:10:10,959 --> 00:10:12,959 russia and china are not seen on the 284 00:10:12,959 --> 00:10:15,440 same level of strategic competition 285 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,440 i think that makes sense but more 286 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:18,880 broadly 287 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:20,120 the the framing for this 288 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,640 administration's foreign policy agenda 289 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,920 is in a global competition 290 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,120 between authoritarian and democratic 291 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:29,920 states 292 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,079 china is clearly a central feature of 293 00:10:32,079 --> 00:10:33,120 that 294 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,360 but another central feature of that is 295 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,279 that the united states seeks to rally 296 00:10:37,279 --> 00:10:39,680 the world's democracies to take on 297 00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:42,000 significant transnational challenges 298 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:43,120 whether that be 299 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,680 china climate change recovering from the 300 00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:46,800 global pandemic 301 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:48,160 and i think that's what we saw the 302 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,000 president do on 303 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,240 this uh international trip to europe 304 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:53,839 which is just wrapping up he wants to 305 00:10:53,839 --> 00:10:55,279 show that america is back 306 00:10:55,279 --> 00:10:56,880 but that it is capable of rallying the 307 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,120 world's democracy democracies 308 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,600 so yes you bring up a key tension that 309 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,360 some of the world's strongest industrial 310 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,040 democracies are backsliding 311 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,680 internally on number of metrics i think 312 00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:10,000 the administration recognizes that 313 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,839 and seeks to strengthen our internal 314 00:11:12,839 --> 00:11:14,079 foundations 315 00:11:14,079 --> 00:11:16,560 whether that be on voting rights uh but 316 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:18,560 also just presenting a strong democratic 317 00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:19,760 model for the world 318 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:21,200 and this is going to be a big challenge 319 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,360 for the u.s europe 320 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,240 european and asian democracies to 321 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:26,880 present 322 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,680 a strong uh internal model so that we 323 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:31,440 can take on critical transnational 324 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:32,720 challenges together 325 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,120 um to close i think you bring up an 326 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,200 important tension but it is one that is 327 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:38,800 acknowledged in 328 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:40,880 um this administration's approach to its 329 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:42,000 european and its 330 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,040 asian democratic partners 331 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:46,640 thank you so much kanga i'd like to 332 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:48,560 bring you in here um you 333 00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:50,560 also recently have a report out could 334 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:52,000 you tell us a bit about that 335 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,639 and what your you know your conclusions 336 00:11:54,639 --> 00:11:55,760 are about the current state of great 337 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:56,000 power 338 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,240 competition thank you very much emily 339 00:11:58,240 --> 00:11:59,760 and and uh welcome 340 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,240 everyone um i wanted to build up and 341 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,079 actually i think bruno and 342 00:12:04,079 --> 00:12:08,240 torres remarks about building a 343 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,600 democratic alternative uh has uh uh also 344 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,720 nicely uh um sums up or it was also 345 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,320 discussed during the g7 346 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,839 g7 summit uh recently uh where 347 00:12:19,839 --> 00:12:21,760 where president biden also mentioned 348 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:23,040 that there needs 349 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,839 to be a new initiative and we also heard 350 00:12:25,839 --> 00:12:27,519 in the past about the 351 00:12:27,519 --> 00:12:31,120 d10 summit that is in the making 352 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,560 and we we will see what happens i think 353 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:38,000 the important of course the competition 354 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,200 is going on but but despite and 355 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,200 regardless the new initiatives 356 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:44,800 the most important part of it is that 357 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:46,720 they deliver and they bring 358 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,040 tangible results because we've seen many 359 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:50,240 initiatives 360 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,720 there's a community of democracies there 361 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:53,600 are different 362 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,760 institutions that uh their mission is to 363 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,920 some more support democracies um abroad 364 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:06,560 but if they don't deliver then the uh 365 00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:10,079 the effects might be actually bring some 366 00:13:10,079 --> 00:13:13,440 negative uh effects there was also an 367 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:14,480 initiative of 368 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,680 building back a better word that was 369 00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:20,880 announced as well and 370 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:22,399 some people liked the slogan so much 371 00:13:22,399 --> 00:13:25,360 they adopted it for themselves 372 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:27,920 exactly exactly so we will see but it's 373 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:29,839 a it's a great time it's a good momentum 374 00:13:29,839 --> 00:13:30,959 and it's good to see 375 00:13:30,959 --> 00:13:34,240 that america is back as well and 376 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,880 i think both uh america and the europe 377 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:38,480 needs each other to 378 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:40,959 to work on on issues even though they 379 00:13:40,959 --> 00:13:43,120 don't agree 380 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,839 on on everything on on global powers 381 00:13:45,839 --> 00:13:46,639 such as 382 00:13:46,639 --> 00:13:49,120 such as china i have a follow-up which 383 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:50,480 is you know you just said america is 384 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:51,199 back 385 00:13:51,199 --> 00:13:52,720 biden himself has repeatedly said 386 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,480 america is back um 387 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:55,920 but we still have a highly polarized 388 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,880 country we have midterms in 2022 389 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,600 presidential election 2024. um is there 390 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:02,480 a sense 391 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,320 in in europe particularly in this part 392 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:05,680 of europe that 393 00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:07,360 okay baden's back he's saying the right 394 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,040 things but it could be reversed like 395 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:09,440 that 396 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,199 and in the meantime we've gotten 397 00:14:11,199 --> 00:14:12,880 increasingly adversarial toward russia 398 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:14,160 into china 399 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:15,839 yeah i think you are right there is a 400 00:14:15,839 --> 00:14:18,079 feeling that that america is back 401 00:14:18,079 --> 00:14:21,199 but there is also understanding that is 402 00:14:21,199 --> 00:14:23,199 this is not the same america that 403 00:14:23,199 --> 00:14:25,519 we used to see but especially if we are 404 00:14:25,519 --> 00:14:27,120 talking about this region 405 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,560 uh this region has never been 406 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,760 left america from its orbit for example 407 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,279 you we you mentioned our report we just 408 00:14:37,279 --> 00:14:38,800 published a report on 409 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,360 strategic autonomy from central and 410 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,040 eastern 411 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,360 european view or perspectives it's it's 412 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,199 not a report that has a 413 00:14:47,199 --> 00:14:49,040 country chapters but rather we brought 414 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,120 together outers from the region to 415 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:52,320 discuss the topic 416 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,199 and and this topic was was uh strategic 417 00:14:55,199 --> 00:14:56,959 autonomy discussions in europe has 418 00:14:56,959 --> 00:14:57,519 started 419 00:14:57,519 --> 00:15:01,760 way before the uh pandemic 420 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,560 but the all the authors for example say 421 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:05,600 that 422 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,079 regardless we want or not the the 423 00:15:08,079 --> 00:15:10,839 strategic autonomy of some sorts will 424 00:15:10,839 --> 00:15:14,959 uh will be uh with us 425 00:15:14,959 --> 00:15:17,120 in the medium or uh long term but of 426 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,279 course the devil lies in the details and 427 00:15:19,279 --> 00:15:20,079 also what 428 00:15:20,079 --> 00:15:22,399 every single author of this report said 429 00:15:22,399 --> 00:15:23,680 that 430 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,079 yes central europe would not oppose it 431 00:15:26,079 --> 00:15:26,880 but it 432 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,759 must not lead into the coupling and the 433 00:15:29,759 --> 00:15:31,680 transatlantic bond is something that 434 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,880 that is important for this region and uh 435 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,839 and this is the the whole premise um 436 00:15:37,839 --> 00:15:39,199 bruno a question for you 437 00:15:39,199 --> 00:15:40,720 you know with great power competition 438 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:42,800 it's it's easy to see what this means 439 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,120 well maybe not easy but it's clearer or 440 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:46,959 easier to see what this means for the 441 00:15:46,959 --> 00:15:48,480 united states for russia for china for 442 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:49,759 japan for india 443 00:15:49,759 --> 00:15:53,519 um is there concern that for 444 00:15:53,519 --> 00:15:56,079 smaller countries say in europe or 445 00:15:56,079 --> 00:15:58,000 around the world that they 446 00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,759 get left behind and lost in the shuffle 447 00:15:59,759 --> 00:16:02,079 of between the great powers 448 00:16:02,079 --> 00:16:04,000 it's a big concern for for lots of 449 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,079 medium-sized powers 450 00:16:06,079 --> 00:16:08,720 i get that question all the time can a 451 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:09,600 country 452 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,040 uh afford not to choose you know 453 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,480 singapore would probably not like to be 454 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:17,519 forced to choose 455 00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:19,600 necessarily in all dimensions between 456 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,199 china and the united states as 457 00:16:21,199 --> 00:16:24,240 strong economic links um 458 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,880 there are other countries who who are 459 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:27,360 forced 460 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,759 in a way to to pick a side and that was 461 00:16:29,759 --> 00:16:31,279 the story in the cold war i'm not sure 462 00:16:31,279 --> 00:16:33,839 it's going to be the story here 463 00:16:33,839 --> 00:16:35,680 i see opportunities for countries to 464 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,240 play both sides and some are trying that 465 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,040 when it comes to europe name names uh 466 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:41,920 sorry 467 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,240 well you know some very successful 468 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:45,040 countries 469 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,320 have developed close ties with china 470 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,000 even in europe switzerland is a good 471 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:51,360 case switzerland has a free trade 472 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:52,959 agreement with china and they seem to be 473 00:16:52,959 --> 00:16:53,920 happy with it 474 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,160 um they don't have the same and you know 475 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,320 they have a history of neutrality that 476 00:16:58,320 --> 00:16:59,360 allows them 477 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,680 not to be necessarily forced to align 478 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,120 with the united states on everything 479 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,760 they can say no now the question is is 480 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:06,480 this going to be 481 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,119 in the end successful or not or in the 482 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,039 end they're going to be forced to choose 483 00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:12,640 when it comes to europe i remember 484 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,839 meeting minister nakayam in 2015 485 00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:18,880 and he was always insisting i think also 486 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:19,679 with other 487 00:17:19,679 --> 00:17:21,919 european counterparts that europe has to 488 00:17:21,919 --> 00:17:23,119 wake up 489 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:24,480 and the question which he referred to 490 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,880 today as well is you know the economic 491 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:28,640 links particularly between east asia and 492 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:29,840 europe 493 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,760 japan south korea taiwan 494 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,400 are they going to be controlled by china 495 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:36,960 in the end 496 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:38,320 are those trade routes going to be 497 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:39,840 controlled by china the ports the 498 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,520 massive ports that are being constructed 499 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:42,799 freedom of navigation 500 00:17:42,799 --> 00:17:45,440 this is an issue where europe has to be 501 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:46,080 very very 502 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:50,000 active we cannot afford to become 503 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,120 a fortress isolated from the world 504 00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:56,160 so the idea that in a way we have to be 505 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:57,280 present in asia 506 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,559 is becoming recognized in brussels 507 00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:01,919 you have some european countries 508 00:18:01,919 --> 00:18:03,840 developing indo-pacific strategies 509 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,000 you have the european commission having 510 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:06,880 two years ago 511 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:08,960 a big summit with the prime minister 512 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:10,480 chinzo abe 513 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,559 ideas to do the same with india so i 514 00:18:12,559 --> 00:18:14,000 think i think minister nakayama was 515 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,240 right back then in 2015 this is an issue 516 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:17,120 also for europe 517 00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:19,360 and we have to be present in in asia 518 00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:21,200 well so i'd like to go now to minister 519 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:22,400 nakayama and ask 520 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,400 do you think that europe and the rest of 521 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:25,840 the world have woken up 522 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,200 um if so when did they wake up and why 523 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,440 and if not kind of what is it going to 524 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,679 take 525 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,840 so what the japan hopes now 526 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,280 to maintain and uh reinforce the vision 527 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,640 of voip is to further develop our 528 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:45,360 relationship 529 00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:49,120 with the european union as a 530 00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:52,080 strategic partner that we can act 531 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:53,360 together 532 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:55,679 with to establish world peace and 533 00:18:55,679 --> 00:18:57,600 security and stability 534 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,200 based on common values such as democracy 535 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,120 and rule of law 536 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:06,799 and principles and uh you know we can 537 00:19:06,799 --> 00:19:08,160 make a promise 538 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,840 and uh but the some country 539 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,360 uh sometimes uh 540 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:18,799 break the rules so 541 00:19:18,799 --> 00:19:21,679 we are democratic countries uh have to 542 00:19:21,679 --> 00:19:22,880 unite 543 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,480 and uh we need uh 544 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,840 add more friends to make a strong strong 545 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,039 strengthening 546 00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:34,559 uh after against uh 547 00:19:34,559 --> 00:19:38,240 the uh uh you know give the bad 548 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,880 influence to their uh neighboring 549 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:41,840 country 550 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,360 or even uh not neighboring country 551 00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:48,000 because uh now the time uh you can 552 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:49,039 attack 553 00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:52,720 uh even not geopolitically close 554 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,000 you can attack another country 555 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,360 through the internet or cyber attacks 556 00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:02,799 so um our friends and the needs 557 00:20:02,799 --> 00:20:06,559 is uh you know all over the world 558 00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:09,600 so the bruno said uh 559 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,720 we have to wake up means uh we have to 560 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:13,840 wake up now 561 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,520 and when when 2015 i was a 562 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,320 state minister for foreign affairs and i 563 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:21,440 attended 564 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,000 all the cyber security conference held 565 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:25,840 out the europe held at the uh north 566 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:27,120 america 567 00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:30,880 and uh i felt uh at that time 568 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,080 already uh i feel that the 569 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,600 new cold war exists in cyberspace 570 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,280 so that means russia and china 571 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,520 already collaborate collaborating on the 572 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:44,720 cyber 573 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,039 cyber world and united states and japan 574 00:20:49,039 --> 00:20:52,320 uh is you know collaborating 575 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,360 and uh the internet field for china 576 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:57,360 chinese and the russians i think that 577 00:20:57,360 --> 00:20:59,440 they wants to control 578 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,240 everything but for the united states and 579 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:03,120 japan 580 00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:06,559 uh country like japan we want to use 581 00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:10,240 internet field to emphasize the economy 582 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,120 to make more strong and free economy 583 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:16,320 so i hope the new president of the 584 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:17,360 united states 585 00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:20,400 uh mr joe biden uh become 586 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,200 uh strong to make a strong leadership to 587 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:24,559 the democratic 588 00:21:24,559 --> 00:21:27,760 uh nations and 589 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,240 to call upon the uh everybody get 590 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:31,280 together 591 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,640 to to how to say to to 592 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:39,120 to protect the uh democratic uh 593 00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:42,799 world and uh not just the chasing 594 00:21:42,799 --> 00:21:46,000 between the communist country 595 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,120 but also we have to 596 00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:52,799 bring them uh bring them into the 597 00:21:52,799 --> 00:21:55,919 uh the the stage 598 00:21:55,919 --> 00:21:58,960 that we can talk more freely 599 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,240 and also talk more honestly 600 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,919 thank you thank you um i have one last 601 00:22:05,919 --> 00:22:07,360 question that i'm going to put to tori 602 00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:08,880 before opening it up to audience 603 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:10,960 questions again we have zoom questions 604 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,200 you can ask via the app and if you're 605 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:14,480 here with me in this room we have a 606 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:15,360 microphone 607 00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:16,960 that you can get up to and ask we just 608 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:18,880 ask that you please not touch the mic 609 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,039 as we are still in a global pandemic um 610 00:22:21,039 --> 00:22:23,200 tori my question for you you know so 611 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:24,640 we have this great power competition 612 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,640 right we're we're in this adversarial 613 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,080 relationship 614 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,320 on the other hand we have issues like 615 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,320 the global pandemic like climate change 616 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,440 um that we kind of can't address 617 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,360 if we aren't cooperating to some extent 618 00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:38,799 so how do you how do we 619 00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:41,440 balance the two right the reality that 620 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:42,400 there are these 621 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,080 um you know aggressive 622 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,200 autocratic uh countries that are on the 623 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:49,760 ascent 624 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,200 like um on the ascent and 625 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,120 on the other hand that there are 626 00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:57,280 existential challenges that we need to 627 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,880 work out right it's a it's a great point 628 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,400 and i'll answer that by picking up on a 629 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:03,600 thread that 630 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,760 uh bruno raised um which is 631 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,400 in the united states asking allies or 632 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:12,159 partners to choose between the united 633 00:23:12,159 --> 00:23:14,080 states and china it brings up this idea 634 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:14,720 of 635 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,080 decoupling that um i think was prominent 636 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:19,679 during the trump administration but 637 00:23:19,679 --> 00:23:22,799 i'd like to debunk both of those uh 638 00:23:22,799 --> 00:23:25,200 terms before moving on to your to your 639 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:25,919 question 640 00:23:25,919 --> 00:23:27,840 one i don't think that the united states 641 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,679 uh under the obama administration nor 642 00:23:29,679 --> 00:23:30,799 even under 643 00:23:30,799 --> 00:23:33,600 um the trump administration really was 644 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,520 looking at decoupling 645 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,440 between the west and china the united 646 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,039 states and china as a viable 647 00:23:39,039 --> 00:23:42,400 policy option it is clear that we 648 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,640 operate in an interconnected web of 649 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,799 technologies and economies and that that 650 00:23:46,799 --> 00:23:47,360 is 651 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:49,679 not possible in today's world the second 652 00:23:49,679 --> 00:23:51,360 idea of asking allies and partners to 653 00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:51,919 choose 654 00:23:51,919 --> 00:23:54,080 i also do not think is on the table in 655 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:55,679 the blind administration's foreign 656 00:23:55,679 --> 00:23:57,520 policy agenda either 657 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,520 because the united states recognizes 658 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:00,559 that 659 00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:01,840 many of its allies and partners in 660 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,760 europe and in asia rely 661 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,760 fundamentally on china's economy and 662 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,679 that if we asked allies and partners to 663 00:24:07,679 --> 00:24:09,360 choose we may not like the answer 664 00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:12,720 so i i think there is more complexity 665 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,840 to u.s foreign policy now than to put it 666 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,600 in terms of decoupling and 667 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,000 and asking allies and partners to choose 668 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,120 so i think that that's 669 00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:22,640 an important thread to start from but 670 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,159 another reason that 671 00:24:24,159 --> 00:24:26,080 these are not viable options is emily 672 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:27,520 because as you mentioned we're dealing 673 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,760 with transnational challenges that 674 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,400 will require cooperation between 675 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,720 democratic and authoritarian partners 676 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,039 and i think that we can look at the the 677 00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:38,880 u.s russia summit that just 678 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,159 concluded to show that um this is 679 00:24:42,159 --> 00:24:44,960 this is possible and that it is um 680 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,880 necessary you know we look at 681 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,200 uh nuclear issues for example being a 682 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,039 transnational challenge that we have to 683 00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:52,159 deal with 684 00:24:52,159 --> 00:24:53,840 the united states and russia i would say 685 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:55,760 are on a pretty adversarial footing at 686 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:56,640 the moment 687 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,200 yet uh presidents biden and putin 688 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:00,799 recognize that as the two world's 689 00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:02,400 largest nuclear powers 690 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,000 we need to have a sense of stability in 691 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,919 this relationship to ensure that 692 00:25:05,919 --> 00:25:08,240 uh peace remains that's one you know we 693 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:09,120 also have 694 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:11,039 our you know looking at the relationship 695 00:25:11,039 --> 00:25:13,200 with china it's very clear that we are 696 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,360 going to need to cooperate with china on 697 00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:17,679 big issues like climate change but also 698 00:25:17,679 --> 00:25:20,480 on pandemic recovery addressing the next 699 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,559 pandemic should there ever be one 700 00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:25,279 and that we need to keep uh channels of 701 00:25:25,279 --> 00:25:26,880 dialogue and communication and 702 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,240 engagement open 703 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,000 so that we can deal with these big 704 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,360 transnational challenges like i 705 00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:32,080 mentioned 706 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,039 nuclear issues climate change um 707 00:25:35,039 --> 00:25:36,320 pandemics 708 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,000 this is going to require cooperation and 709 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,159 dialogue with authoritarian states with 710 00:25:40,159 --> 00:25:42,320 peer competitors with adversaries 711 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,559 and i think that that's very much woven 712 00:25:44,559 --> 00:25:45,520 into 713 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:47,279 the fabric and understanding of this 714 00:25:47,279 --> 00:25:49,039 administration's outlook 715 00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:51,760 right now okay so we have about half the 716 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:52,880 session left we're going to go to 717 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:53,840 questions now 718 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,039 um we have one from the app which 719 00:25:57,039 --> 00:25:59,440 reads it's anonymous it reads is 720 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:00,880 military still the main area of 721 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,559 competition between great powers such as 722 00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:05,120 china and the us or are geoeconomics and 723 00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:06,000 technology 724 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,240 more important in that regard um kinga 725 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:09,279 because you just have this report on 726 00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:10,559 strategic autonomy come 727 00:26:10,559 --> 00:26:12,960 out i would like you to to take a stab 728 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:13,840 thank you very much 729 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,720 uh uh emily uh yeah i think it's 730 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,480 definitely the the second one 731 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,039 and uh we we were also discussing and 732 00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:22,240 this is also 733 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,799 i will refer maybe to to the the the 734 00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:25,760 argument that 735 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,320 if europe wakes up or not when it comes 736 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:29,760 to the global competition but 737 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:31,919 uh i think it definitely does of course 738 00:26:31,919 --> 00:26:32,799 there is a 739 00:26:32,799 --> 00:26:35,360 uh there is a division between those who 740 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:35,919 think that 741 00:26:35,919 --> 00:26:38,880 europe uh is you know too slow does not 742 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,159 do enough but 743 00:26:40,159 --> 00:26:41,919 on the other hand i i started just to 744 00:26:41,919 --> 00:26:43,279 write down you know we 745 00:26:43,279 --> 00:26:46,480 what you did in this regard and it's 746 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:47,520 it's not enough 747 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,600 we all know that member states national 748 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,360 interests are divided there's no 749 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:53,520 common position on china russia but 750 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:54,720 there are attempts from this 751 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,840 bureaucratic machine in in brazos 752 00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,760 the we have a geopolitical commission 753 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:01,760 even it probably 754 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,159 expects sets expectations too high to 755 00:27:04,159 --> 00:27:05,440 what it can deliver 756 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,360 but there is a global thinking about it 757 00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:08,640 we have also the new 758 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,000 agenda for multilateralism when the eu 759 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,200 states that 760 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,720 that it will uh that this 761 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,799 pragmatic approach and cooperation and 762 00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:20,399 approach to china 763 00:27:20,399 --> 00:27:23,120 this is something that the eu is also 764 00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:25,039 looking for and and member states are 765 00:27:25,039 --> 00:27:26,640 actually reading for more 766 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:28,240 interest-driven eu 767 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,240 and also we member states are working on 768 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,240 the strategic compass also to 769 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,200 uh to bring the the positions closer or 770 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:35,840 that 771 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,880 analyze together different threats uh so 772 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,360 i definitely think that that europe has 773 00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:44,000 has woke up to the geopolitical uh 774 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,000 uh challenges and is seeking for uh 775 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,039 its role on the global stage um 776 00:27:51,039 --> 00:27:54,640 and um and uh yeah it's 777 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,039 it's just uh the time when that you will 778 00:27:57,039 --> 00:27:57,919 will 779 00:27:57,919 --> 00:28:00,799 arrive there um i know we have a zoom 780 00:28:00,799 --> 00:28:01,360 question 781 00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:05,279 so if the producers could could bring us 782 00:28:05,279 --> 00:28:07,679 that query they're not ready yet with 783 00:28:07,679 --> 00:28:09,520 the zoom question but that's fine um 784 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:10,880 okay does anyone in the room have a 785 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,159 question 786 00:28:12,159 --> 00:28:15,440 okay we have another one from uh the app 787 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,640 which is uh it's a two-parter from 788 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,559 dimitri lokov of the martin center 789 00:28:20,559 --> 00:28:23,360 one will the quad alliance us australia 790 00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:25,039 india japan become more prominent in the 791 00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:25,600 future 792 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,679 and then the second part is japan's view 793 00:28:27,679 --> 00:28:29,520 does the eu recognize the importance of 794 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,279 southeast asia 795 00:28:31,279 --> 00:28:34,320 so i'm going to have tori take the first 796 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,559 one and then we'll go to the minister so 797 00:28:36,559 --> 00:28:39,200 tori um will the quad alliance become 798 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,320 more important in the future do you 799 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,320 think 800 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,159 short answer yes i think we're already 801 00:28:44,159 --> 00:28:46,000 seeing the quad play a pretty prominent 802 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:46,480 role 803 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,080 in uh the u.s approach to the 804 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:49,600 indo-pacific currently 805 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,600 the fact that we had the first leaders 806 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,279 meeting of the quad early on in the 807 00:28:53,279 --> 00:28:54,640 biden administration 808 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,960 i think is important i think it will 809 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:58,000 become an organizing 810 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,720 principle for dealing with challenges 811 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:01,200 from 812 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,080 china in the region but also um a more 813 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,840 positive and affirmative vision dealing 814 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,600 with vaccine distribution 815 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,200 um there is a i think a working group 816 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,919 for critical and emerging technologies 817 00:29:13,919 --> 00:29:15,440 that is taking place within the quad 818 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:16,320 format 819 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,559 and uh yes absolutely i think that this 820 00:29:18,559 --> 00:29:19,360 will be a 821 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,320 an important organizing principle for 822 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,000 u.s engagement in the region 823 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,200 i would be curious to hear from our 824 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,600 japanese counterparts whether he sees 825 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,120 um a a concrete real role for the eu 826 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:32,960 within or european partners within the 827 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,720 quad but on that i'd refer 828 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,000 to my colleague um so let's go now to to 829 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:38,640 minister 830 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,039 uh nakayama do you think that well first 831 00:29:41,039 --> 00:29:42,720 of all does that you recognize the 832 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,320 importance of southeast asia 833 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,039 and can is there a role for the eu in 834 00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:49,440 the quad 835 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,080 or um i think i i'm so sure that the uh 836 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,120 for example the this april this year 837 00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,679 uh you know european union too has 838 00:29:59,679 --> 00:30:00,240 announced 839 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,960 its strategy to cooperate in uh in in 840 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:03,440 the uh 841 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,880 in the pacific and uh also the uh 842 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,919 what what this strategy uh advocates 843 00:30:09,919 --> 00:30:13,279 is exactly in harmony with what japan 844 00:30:13,279 --> 00:30:14,240 promotes 845 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,360 in the foy vision uh in particular 846 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,399 as defense mini minister i highly 847 00:30:20,399 --> 00:30:22,080 commend uh comment 848 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,760 on the point that the eu strategy 849 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,120 sets out uh the strengthening of uh 850 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,520 presence and action in the in the 851 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:32,799 pacific 852 00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:35,600 on the related note we are seeing a 853 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:36,320 closer 854 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,880 collaboration with each of the european 855 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,080 nations 856 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,679 last month we conducted a 857 00:30:43,679 --> 00:30:47,039 multi-racial exercise called arc 21 858 00:30:47,039 --> 00:30:49,919 with france and united states and 859 00:30:49,919 --> 00:30:51,120 australia 860 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,640 uh that involved training um 861 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,840 menus such as relation uh 862 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,919 rep repleni reprehension 863 00:31:01,919 --> 00:31:05,120 at sea ras 864 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,240 and uh landing ashore uh 865 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,240 not only were we able to demonstrate 866 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,360 uh our resolution to protect our 867 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,120 our remote islands but we were 868 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,799 also able to show off our solid 869 00:31:22,799 --> 00:31:25,519 collaboration between japan and france 870 00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:27,120 and the indo-pacific 871 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,679 to our domestic and international 872 00:31:29,679 --> 00:31:31,360 audience 873 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,200 ever as an effort not to lose 874 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,279 uh the moment a momentum of the exercise 875 00:31:39,279 --> 00:31:41,679 each of the each of the chief of staff 876 00:31:41,679 --> 00:31:43,120 from ground 877 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,919 maritime and heir staff officers of his 878 00:31:45,919 --> 00:31:46,960 offices 879 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,720 engaged in vtcs with their france 880 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,600 counterparts and share views regarding 881 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,200 defense cooperation 882 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,399 going forward and also the united 883 00:31:58,399 --> 00:32:00,159 kingdom kingdom uh 884 00:32:00,159 --> 00:32:03,760 is going to send a queen el davis and so 885 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:04,320 uh 886 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,600 i think and also the germany too so the 887 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,600 all the european union countries 888 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,640 uh really focusing on uh 889 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,120 this region northeast asia and also the 890 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:15,679 south 891 00:32:15,679 --> 00:32:18,799 south east asia but uh unfortunately 892 00:32:18,799 --> 00:32:20,080 honestly speaking the 893 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,360 the taiwan issue is the i think the more 894 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,000 the most biggest issue and uh in the 895 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,279 pacific ocean 896 00:32:27,279 --> 00:32:31,120 uh we have a honolulu and there is a 897 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,360 in the pacom of the united states 898 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,120 seventh street base 899 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,080 and i think the pacific ocean is very uh 900 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:39,120 big value and 901 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,320 asset uh for for not just the 902 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,279 asian country but also the indian ocean 903 00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:46,240 countries and 904 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,919 even the europeans if you look up this 905 00:32:49,919 --> 00:32:54,960 map this is a south china sea 906 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,000 and if the chinese submarine 907 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,880 launched the longest distance missile 908 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:01,760 towards 909 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,960 the north america it already reaches 910 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,240 to the white house and that means whole 911 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:08,960 the nation 912 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,399 including europe is already 913 00:33:12,399 --> 00:33:15,200 inside of the range of the chinese uh 914 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:16,640 nuclear weapons it's a it's a 915 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:17,760 possibility 916 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,120 but uh we we have to unite and uh 917 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,399 uh this issue and the concern 918 00:33:24,399 --> 00:33:27,519 uh we have to talk about uh like this 919 00:33:27,519 --> 00:33:28,640 situation 920 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,360 and uh i don't know about the quad 921 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:32,159 future 922 00:33:32,159 --> 00:33:35,440 uh but quad it's it's it's kind of like 923 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,120 examples of the how we make good friends 924 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,960 uh which we have a mutual uh profit 925 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,080 for the future and it will so thank you 926 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:47,440 very much 927 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,200 bruno i'd like to put the same questions 928 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:50,880 to you but from the european perspective 929 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:51,440 so 930 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,760 do you think that the eu recognizes uh 931 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,120 the importance of 932 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,720 southeast asia and what is the role for 933 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,240 europe with the quad yes it does 934 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,960 the high representative just came back 935 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:06,880 from indonesia 936 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,359 there was actually a very good reaction 937 00:34:09,359 --> 00:34:12,159 lots of op-eds in the straits times and 938 00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:15,359 other regional newspapers 939 00:34:15,359 --> 00:34:18,639 the idea again is we have very strong 940 00:34:18,639 --> 00:34:20,960 trade links and economic links but 941 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:22,639 that's not quite enough 942 00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:25,520 they have to be protected politically 943 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:26,159 and 944 00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:28,879 perhaps even militarily the issue you 945 00:34:28,879 --> 00:34:30,480 asked this question earlier just a side 946 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:31,440 note 947 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,199 so far the competition has been mostly 948 00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:35,040 economic and technological 949 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,239 but there's of course a question whether 950 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,199 chinese authorities decide to change the 951 00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:44,079 nature of this competition at some point 952 00:34:44,079 --> 00:34:46,000 by the way finding that competition in 953 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,440 the economic sphere is becoming very 954 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:48,879 difficult 955 00:34:48,879 --> 00:34:50,320 and therefore then the question of 956 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,159 taiwan and other questions could 957 00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:54,159 could be raised it's possible that china 958 00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:55,359 would divert 959 00:34:55,359 --> 00:34:57,040 great power competition to the military 960 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:58,560 sphere at some point 961 00:34:58,560 --> 00:34:59,920 that could be the story for the next 962 00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:02,640 decade and there i remain very skeptical 963 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,320 that the european union can do a lot 964 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,640 the question as it's usually posed in in 965 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,480 brussels in washington is 966 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,640 should europe have a military presence 967 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,760 in southeast asia 968 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,520 and south asia or should it focus on 969 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:16,880 europe therefore 970 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:18,880 freeing american resources to be more 971 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,560 focused on asia 972 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:21,599 i think that's a dialogue that's 973 00:35:21,599 --> 00:35:23,040 happening between the united states and 974 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:24,880 europe 975 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:26,480 probably what's going to happen maybe 976 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,000 minister nakayama will 977 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,680 disagree but probably what's going to 978 00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,280 happen is that europe is going to be 979 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,400 more focused on its eastern borders 980 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,079 european resources are going to be used 981 00:35:36,079 --> 00:35:38,000 to face russia 982 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,880 and that u.s will slowly divert its 983 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,400 attention to 984 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,760 south asia southeast asia uh philippines 985 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:46,160 uh 986 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:47,440 let me just finish with one thought 987 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,599 maybe i you won't come back to me 988 00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:51,440 uh it's been interesting this discussion 989 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,520 uh the question of values 990 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,119 because when you talk about great power 991 00:35:55,119 --> 00:35:56,480 competition and during the trump 992 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:57,440 administration 993 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,480 it seemed to be uh the sort of 994 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,400 leaving behind the values question and 995 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:03,680 focusing on power 996 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,040 and that's very much a question that is 997 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:06,400 alive so far the bilingual 998 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,640 administration has really concentrated 999 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,280 its attention on the on democracies 1000 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,000 india japan south korea have deserved 1001 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,760 prime treatment from the administration 1002 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:16,800 but soon enough 1003 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,000 we're going to have a very serious 1004 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,359 question whether the united states is 1005 00:36:19,359 --> 00:36:21,119 going to engage with vietnam 1006 00:36:21,119 --> 00:36:24,240 is going to engage with the philippines 1007 00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:26,800 in particular uh of course lots of of 1008 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:28,800 questions about duterte there 1009 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,000 uh thailand uh and then uh that raises 1010 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:32,880 the question of 1011 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,240 of whether uh values should be the main 1012 00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:38,000 consideration or power should be the 1013 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,839 main consideration 1014 00:36:39,839 --> 00:36:42,480 and i i i personally think that the 1015 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,320 united states will be forced sooner or 1016 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:45,119 later 1017 00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:46,880 to be a bit more flexible in its 1018 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,640 approach if it wants to 1019 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,680 balance chinese power in asia 1020 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,040 so we have another question this one 1021 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,359 comes to us from jack dalrymple 1022 00:36:55,359 --> 00:36:57,280 how successful do you think china's belt 1023 00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,040 and road initiative has been and what do 1024 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:00,720 you think should be europe's response to 1025 00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:01,920 these efforts to influence 1026 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,160 influence countries kanga i will go to 1027 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:05,599 you 1028 00:37:05,599 --> 00:37:07,760 yeah i think we've just seen the the the 1029 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,200 response and and the 1030 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,960 uh g some g uh seven summit uh 1031 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,200 conclusions or recommendations that that 1032 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:16,720 the world is thinking about this 1033 00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:17,520 question 1034 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,640 and uh and there is a actually 1035 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,720 uh really understanding that those 1036 00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:23,680 alternatives 1037 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,800 must be delivered if uh the the word 1038 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,440 uh if democracies want to shape 1039 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,200 uh and influence uh the word uh 1040 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,320 as well so i think chinese were 1041 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,880 very smart in this in this approach with 1042 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:42,880 this initiative and 1043 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,480 from their perspective it is um it is 1044 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,680 successful uh what it's often also that 1045 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,280 this region is criticized for 1046 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,720 for the 16 now uh one plus one 1047 00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:57,920 summit and uh it comes up in our report 1048 00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,520 but also discussions that we have in the 1049 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:00,960 region as well is that the 1050 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,720 central and eastern european countries 1051 00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:04,079 are more and more kind of 1052 00:38:04,079 --> 00:38:06,880 disappointed with uh with the the 1053 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,280 chinese approach and they often we often 1054 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,800 say it's not 16 plus one but one plus 16 1055 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,040 because because the states 1056 00:38:17,359 --> 00:38:19,920 are aware and and they cannot influence 1057 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:21,359 that match the agenda 1058 00:38:21,359 --> 00:38:26,160 the format the setup so so uh 1059 00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:28,720 it has been highly criticized but there 1060 00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:30,480 is also a reflection in the region that 1061 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,079 this is not the format that 1062 00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:35,440 for example uh brings that much 1063 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,200 to the region and we've seen lithuania 1064 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,680 leaving it so 1065 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,599 we will see what what happens and how 1066 00:38:41,599 --> 00:38:42,880 also this is 1067 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,920 integrated on the eu level but 1068 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,880 we also know that other member states 1069 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,880 also have their different policies 1070 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,160 so i wouldn't hear it okay 1071 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,400 um we have another anonymous question 1072 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:57,599 this says 1073 00:38:57,599 --> 00:39:00,000 economy resources and technology concern 1074 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,760 concerns strategic autonomy 1075 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,240 how to keep the autonomy economically um 1076 00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:05,520 tory i'd like to go back to you because 1077 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:06,960 you spoke earlier about how we're not 1078 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:07,359 act 1079 00:39:07,359 --> 00:39:09,200 we're not really going to decouple 1080 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:10,480 economically um 1081 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:11,599 what are your thoughts on this question 1082 00:39:11,599 --> 00:39:13,359 how do you how do you remain 1083 00:39:13,359 --> 00:39:14,079 economically 1084 00:39:14,079 --> 00:39:17,760 autonomous in a great power world 1085 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,560 uh big question um and there are a 1086 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:21,920 couple things i'd like to pick up on 1087 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:23,119 from what bruno and 1088 00:39:23,119 --> 00:39:24,960 and kanga have said as well but to 1089 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:26,839 address this issue 1090 00:39:26,839 --> 00:39:30,320 um you know i think the the best way 1091 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,280 for european powers and for the european 1092 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:34,640 union to engage 1093 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,359 in what we might call a great game of 1094 00:39:37,359 --> 00:39:39,119 great power competition however you want 1095 00:39:39,119 --> 00:39:40,160 to phrase it 1096 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,480 is through its economic weight and its 1097 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,079 regulatory power we haven't really 1098 00:39:44,079 --> 00:39:46,320 brought up this idea of regulatory power 1099 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:46,880 yet 1100 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,560 and this is where the european union and 1101 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,160 the european market 1102 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:51,599 have a tremendous amount of weight on 1103 00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:53,200 the world stage and can 1104 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,320 influence how companies and powers 1105 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,079 engage at home in the world's 1106 00:39:58,079 --> 00:40:00,800 largest market um so i think looking 1107 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:02,400 ahead we're going to see the european 1108 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,240 commission really lean into that its 1109 00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:06,400 economic and its regulatory power 1110 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,720 to engage among great powers like the 1111 00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:11,040 united states russia and china so that's 1112 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,160 one point um i want to go back to uh 1113 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,040 the question on bri and development 1114 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:17,680 because 1115 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,839 i completely agree with kenya that i 1116 00:40:19,839 --> 00:40:21,599 think there's a lot of disappointment 1117 00:40:21,599 --> 00:40:24,400 and disillusionment with what china is 1118 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:25,760 offering to 1119 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:27,920 both industrialized and developing 1120 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,839 countries in its um 1121 00:40:29,839 --> 00:40:33,280 very lone heavy uh model and also 1122 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,040 just in the the disappointment around 1123 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:36,640 what china's been able to follow through 1124 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:36,880 on 1125 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:38,960 infrastructure-wise and so i think the 1126 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,079 time is right for 1127 00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:42,000 industrialized democracies the united 1128 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,680 states europe other 1129 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:45,920 countries in the pacific like japan to 1130 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:47,440 really present viable 1131 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,720 alternatives to china's bri and honestly 1132 00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:52,560 i don't think we're we're there yet 1133 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,640 i think you know the the european asian 1134 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,400 connectivity strategy 1135 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,240 the united states blue dot network 1136 00:40:58,240 --> 00:40:59,599 initial development initiatives like 1137 00:40:59,599 --> 00:41:00,400 this are not 1138 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:01,599 they don't have the political weight and 1139 00:41:01,599 --> 00:41:03,599 the economic investment behind them to 1140 00:41:03,599 --> 00:41:04,880 currently present 1141 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:06,640 uh viable alternatives and i really 1142 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,560 think we need to lean into 1143 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,680 uh the development angle of our 1144 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:13,520 soft power influence around the world so 1145 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,520 i think uh development is going to be 1146 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:16,800 critical to 1147 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,599 our ability to compete economically with 1148 00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:21,200 key regions around the world 1149 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,240 now and going forward great so we have 1150 00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:25,760 another question this one comes from a 1151 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:26,280 tough 1152 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,599 tathova it's a question for minister 1153 00:41:29,599 --> 00:41:30,560 nakayama 1154 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,880 where do you see the future of eu japan 1155 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,040 cooperation what are the areas where it 1156 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:36,400 could be strengthened 1157 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,440 minister yes 1158 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,319 thank you very much for the question uh 1159 00:41:42,319 --> 00:41:44,000 i'd like to say that 1160 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,200 you know the for example 1161 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,760 think about the chinese activities right 1162 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:50,560 now 1163 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,760 uh we are really concerned about uh 1164 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,640 unilateral attempts to change the status 1165 00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:57,680 quo 1166 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,800 and uh but this kind of things 1167 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,400 not just happening on the earth but also 1168 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:04,800 the 1169 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,319 outer space so uh you know 1170 00:42:08,319 --> 00:42:11,520 for example like uh the in the military 1171 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:12,319 field 1172 00:42:12,319 --> 00:42:15,440 uh the big countries and uh the 1173 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:16,480 countries who get 1174 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,680 lots of budget for the armament they 1175 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,520 already created 1176 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:25,359 hgv missiles which is a very high speed 1177 00:42:25,359 --> 00:42:28,480 long-range missiles and we cannot 1178 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:32,000 stop those kind of high-speed 1179 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,599 very aggressive massive 1180 00:42:35,599 --> 00:42:39,440 attacks and if we want to stop 1181 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,160 those high technologies we have to 1182 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:43,200 create 1183 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,280 and uh pro we have to prepare the 1184 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,359 protection of the outer space 1185 00:42:47,359 --> 00:42:50,000 but if you look up the sky and see the 1186 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,200 outer space 1187 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,599 we have a lot of already problem and the 1188 00:42:53,599 --> 00:42:54,880 issues 1189 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:59,599 and uh you can see the uh lots of types 1190 00:42:59,599 --> 00:43:03,280 of their space and that 1191 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:07,359 the chinese the space agency 1192 00:43:07,359 --> 00:43:11,359 already launched lots of kira satellite 1193 00:43:11,359 --> 00:43:14,640 and they launched satellite and 1194 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,520 after that they destroy their own 1195 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:18,480 satellite 1196 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,119 and make lots of state space their leads 1197 00:43:21,119 --> 00:43:21,839 also 1198 00:43:21,839 --> 00:43:24,079 you can see this graph and that really 1199 00:43:24,079 --> 00:43:25,520 includes 1200 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,760 increasing the number of the space 1201 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:28,960 stabilities 1202 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:33,359 so why not the european countries 1203 00:43:33,359 --> 00:43:36,319 and the japan and united states 1204 00:43:36,319 --> 00:43:37,680 collaborating 1205 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:41,680 to protect of the the peace 1206 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:45,040 and stability of the outer space issues 1207 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,240 so we have a lot of capabilities and 1208 00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:51,200 chances for the future between 1209 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:52,079 collaborating 1210 00:43:52,079 --> 00:43:54,960 with european union european countries 1211 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,920 and also the united states of america 1212 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,880 thank you thank you um you came prepared 1213 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:02,240 you got maps you got charts you got 1214 00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:02,800 graphs 1215 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:04,400 um we have a zoom question now so we 1216 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:09,520 will go to that 1217 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,200 good afternoon everyone my name is 1218 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:12,880 beatrice i'm from 1219 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,280 australia as part of the global voices 1220 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:16,079 program 1221 00:44:16,079 --> 00:44:18,319 first of all thank you for such an 1222 00:44:18,319 --> 00:44:19,760 informative discussion 1223 00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,880 that we're having today my question is 1224 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,760 um you've mentioned communities of 1225 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,400 democracies and it's been mentioned 1226 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,359 a couple of times during this week my 1227 00:44:31,359 --> 00:44:32,079 question is 1228 00:44:32,079 --> 00:44:34,839 would the community of democracy survive 1229 00:44:34,839 --> 00:44:36,079 another 1230 00:44:36,079 --> 00:44:38,560 administration such as trump given the 1231 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,319 recent rise in popular 1232 00:44:40,319 --> 00:44:43,680 populism that we've seen 1233 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,000 i am going to go to my fellow american 1234 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,839 to take beatrice's excellent question 1235 00:44:48,839 --> 00:44:52,000 tori thank you beatrice it's a great 1236 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:52,880 question that means 1237 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,599 you asked uh president biden i think he 1238 00:44:55,599 --> 00:44:56,720 would say that he 1239 00:44:56,720 --> 00:44:59,680 ran on the very notion that american 1240 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:00,480 democracy 1241 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,720 was fledgling and that it wouldn't 1242 00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:04,480 survive the second term of the trump 1243 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:05,839 administration 1244 00:45:05,839 --> 00:45:08,480 um but but i think there's a broader 1245 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:09,040 point 1246 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,200 um to be addressed here in your question 1247 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:12,640 beatrice and that's 1248 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,880 that um democracies are challenged from 1249 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,280 within and from without 1250 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:18,880 i think during the trump administration 1251 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,040 there was this focus on 1252 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,680 um resurgent authoritarianism around the 1253 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:24,720 world and looking 1254 00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:28,000 at challenges from russia china iran 1255 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:29,440 north korea is kind of an axis of 1256 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:30,800 authoritarian powers 1257 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,839 but there was no recognition um you know 1258 00:45:33,839 --> 00:45:35,680 maybe for cynical reasons about 1259 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,240 uh declining democracy from within and i 1260 00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:39,920 think that notion has been flipped on 1261 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:40,640 its head 1262 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,720 in this new administration we recognize 1263 00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:43,920 that we have 1264 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,960 uh significant uh weaknesses within our 1265 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:47,920 own democracy 1266 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:49,760 not just in the united states but in our 1267 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:51,440 alliances and partnerships around the 1268 00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:52,000 world 1269 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,480 and that we have to strengthen our 1270 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,000 democratic resilience 1271 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,599 in order to speak with a collective 1272 00:45:57,599 --> 00:45:59,040 voice abroad 1273 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,359 um you know we have this summit for 1274 00:46:01,359 --> 00:46:03,520 democracy taking place ostensibly in the 1275 00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:04,319 next 1276 00:46:04,319 --> 00:46:07,119 year or so at some point in 2022 i think 1277 00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:09,040 that there are going to be a lot of 1278 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,359 issues addressed there uh first and 1279 00:46:11,359 --> 00:46:13,200 foremost who goes 1280 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,839 um how do we count democracies as 1281 00:46:15,839 --> 00:46:17,680 democracies i'm glad i'm not planning 1282 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:18,720 that because i think that would be a 1283 00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:19,599 difficult 1284 00:46:19,599 --> 00:46:22,319 issue to address but but i do think just 1285 00:46:22,319 --> 00:46:24,720 to go back to your question that 1286 00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:26,240 there is a recognition that our 1287 00:46:26,240 --> 00:46:27,680 democracies have been weakened from 1288 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:28,560 within by 1289 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,640 forces of populism nationalism and that 1290 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,160 we need to recognize these 1291 00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,119 internal weaknesses in order to compete 1292 00:46:35,119 --> 00:46:35,760 with 1293 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,760 authoritarian powers abroad i think 1294 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,599 that's two sides of the coin 1295 00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:41,839 that really need to be addressed if 1296 00:46:41,839 --> 00:46:43,520 we're going to 1297 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,079 compete successfully with authoritarian 1298 00:46:46,079 --> 00:46:48,240 powers whether that be russia china or 1299 00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:50,000 others 1300 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:51,760 thank you so much yes we will see who's 1301 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:53,520 at who is at the summit and 1302 00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:57,200 if as bruno suggested at some point 1303 00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:58,960 the united states gets more flexible as 1304 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,040 to who's allowed in its democratic club 1305 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:02,560 i very quickly we have just a few 1306 00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:03,920 minutes left but very quickly i'd like 1307 00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:04,880 to put this question 1308 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,800 uh to the europeans do you think that 1309 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,839 this sort of um 1310 00:47:08,839 --> 00:47:11,359 pro-democratic trans-atlantic stance 1311 00:47:11,359 --> 00:47:11,920 against 1312 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,560 china and russia and great power and in 1313 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,079 our great power universe right we've 1314 00:47:16,079 --> 00:47:17,200 learned that it's not just the world 1315 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:18,240 it's also in space 1316 00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:20,640 um does that survive if if trump or 1317 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:22,839 someone like trump is back in 2024 very 1318 00:47:22,839 --> 00:47:25,040 quickly 1319 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:26,400 can i disagree with the question of 1320 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,480 course yeah because i you know i think 1321 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:28,880 that's 1322 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:30,480 that's not really the main question for 1323 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,440 me the main question is 1324 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,640 the rise of china in particular and 1325 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:38,640 the way it's affecting the global system 1326 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:39,760 what we saw 1327 00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,400 in the last two three years was a kind 1328 00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,000 of 1329 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:48,960 failure of enforcing global norms 1330 00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,040 on a scale that we hadn't seen before so 1331 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:52,720 remember when the hong kong protest 1332 00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:53,280 started 1333 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,319 this educated opinion in in western 1334 00:47:56,319 --> 00:47:59,359 uh media and and commentary it was there 1335 00:47:59,359 --> 00:48:01,280 is no way that china can respond to this 1336 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,280 uh it lost control over hong kong and 1337 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,359 that's kind of the reaction we had 20 30 1338 00:48:05,359 --> 00:48:06,160 years ago 1339 00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,000 that an authoritarian state could not 1340 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,400 react to such uh widespread protests 1341 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:11,839 because you know the solution was 1342 00:48:11,839 --> 00:48:14,000 to bring the military in right and that 1343 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:15,839 would have unintended consequences 1344 00:48:15,839 --> 00:48:17,040 well i think you know we've been 1345 00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:18,640 learning that things are a bit more 1346 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:19,760 complicated 1347 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,480 and that this power of enforcement 1348 00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,240 coming from global democracies is much 1349 00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:25,599 weakened 1350 00:48:25,599 --> 00:48:27,920 china was able to control the descent in 1351 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:28,720 hong kong 1352 00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:31,359 we see in belarus even more shocking 1353 00:48:31,359 --> 00:48:33,280 that a small country like belarus was 1354 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,440 able to put an end to the protests 1355 00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,359 and so really for me the question and 1356 00:48:37,359 --> 00:48:39,280 i'm sorry to say this it might not sound 1357 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:39,920 popular 1358 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,480 it's actually a question of power 1359 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:43,839 distribution 1360 00:48:43,839 --> 00:48:46,960 and the way we have to 1361 00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,520 martial news sources of power find new 1362 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:50,319 allies 1363 00:48:50,319 --> 00:48:53,200 uh if we want to have a a stable global 1364 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:54,319 balance of power 1365 00:48:54,319 --> 00:48:56,000 because what's happening it seems clear 1366 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,079 to me is that countries like china like 1367 00:48:58,079 --> 00:48:59,760 russia are testing the limits and 1368 00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:00,319 becoming 1369 00:49:00,319 --> 00:49:02,640 increasingly confident that there are no 1370 00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,559 consequences to a number of actions 1371 00:49:04,559 --> 00:49:07,520 navalny is another great example um so 1372 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:09,599 every month uh or every couple of months 1373 00:49:09,599 --> 00:49:10,319 we see 1374 00:49:10,319 --> 00:49:13,359 how this global order is eroding further 1375 00:49:13,359 --> 00:49:14,000 and further 1376 00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:15,760 well on that optimistic note let's just 1377 00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,119 very quickly check in with our poll 1378 00:49:17,119 --> 00:49:19,520 results 1379 00:49:19,839 --> 00:49:21,119 producers can we see the full there we 1380 00:49:21,119 --> 00:49:23,119 go uh no that's 1381 00:49:23,119 --> 00:49:25,839 i need to hit poll 1382 00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:27,920 we have the question was what percentage 1383 00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:29,200 for central central and eastern 1384 00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:30,559 europeans is worried about china's 1385 00:49:30,559 --> 00:49:32,640 rising economic power 1386 00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,920 47 no it's roughly 50 50 right i think 1387 00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,160 if i'm reading that right anyway um in 1388 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:39,599 just a second we will continue in this 1389 00:49:39,599 --> 00:49:40,960 very room with a session called 1390 00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:42,480 political leadership and climate change 1391 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:43,680 united we stand 1392 00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:45,040 so don't go anywhere we'll be back after 1393 00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,119 a short video but first please join me 1394 00:49:47,119 --> 00:49:48,000 in thanking 1395 00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,359 tori kinga bruno minister nakayama 1396 00:49:51,359 --> 00:49:52,559 thank you all so much for being here 1397 00:49:52,559 --> 00:49:56,559 today we hope you enjoyed great power 1398 00:49:56,839 --> 00:49:59,839 competition 1399 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,530 [Music] 1400 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:14,880 you