[Music]
[Applause]
[Music]
we
may have a but this is a recreation of
czechoslovakian
we have a state secretary from the czech
republic or czechia
jan havranek or honza habrianek
i don't know how informal is that and we
have
marian meyer a deputy defense minister
from slovakia remotely we have jan
olivlind who is the deputy defense
minister
of sweden and we have a representative
of industry frank howen
who is the ceo of the c
k and d s uh one of the major defense
companies who
we cooperate very closely with now let
me just
remind you before we go into the panel
that you have the audience online
that you can you can ask your questions
and you are very much
asked to do so so use your
your app uh the glopsic app
uh ask your question and the questions
will appear here and we will be picking
up
you can also vote for questions i think
you've been already told that
uh in the morning now this session will
have to
uh cannot
cannot last beyond 60 minutes because
because we have another another session
coming up here five minutes later
with the prime minister of slovakia
chancellor of austria
and the deputy prime minister of czechia
so we will have to finish right on time
so um european defense corporation
uh you've seen the outline of the panel
let me just say that
i think the really pre three predominant
questions that we will
uh be you know going around i believe
number one it is the issue of the
relationship between the european union
uh and the um you know the instruments
of european
union's defense corporation and nato
through these instruments i mean pascal
european defense fund
so uh in the past that relationship was
on occasion difficult is it still going
to be
is it still difficult how we can resolve
these
issues number two
uh there is a question about the
procurement uh you know
all of us you know i think
you know heard a lot of the frustration
here about the slowness of the
procurement process
uh you know do we have a way around that
will the procurement process uh remain
uh dynamic in the future and will the
instruments of european defense
corporations such as the european
defense fund
and european defense agency will they
help out with this process
and finally we have the question about
the
although we have issue really about the
future of european defense industry
are we capable of creating truly
pan-european
defense industry capable of competing
with the american and our defense
industries on the global stage
uh and if we are what is the role of the
smaller member states in it
will be you know the industries in the
smaller member states will they
just fold and they become disappear or
will they uh
become a part of a you know larger
defense project
now uh so i think these are the key
issues here
uh but i will have some targeted
questions for
uh for our speakers uh and as i
uh as i asked him my questions myself my
questions myself and you know please
think about yours
and you can you can raise your hand uh
and we can we can just do that here in
the room or you can just
use the app whichever way you prefer
so uh standing up with jan havranek
i think that i would like to start from
yourself and i will talk to you
i will move to marian
jan you've been working in close
cooperation with nato
for many many years you also have the
national experience and you have the eu
experience
so you've been witnessing firsthand you
know
the issues and problems which may appear
in the relationship between european
union and nato
uh in the last few years we have created
the you know permanent structure
cooperation european defense fund has it
helped out
or is it making cooperation with nato
more difficult
thank you marcin and uh good afternoon
to the audience here uh i'm a bit
perplexed because this is the first
event since 16 months actually that i'm
attending
life with such an audience so it's a
true privilege to be here
uh now to your question european defense
cooperation for me
is the key building block of
transatlantic security and defense
cooperation
for many years the united states have
asked the europeans to do more
in terms of developing capabilities
contributing more to operations
and so it is only natural that we
europeans as a part of the european
union but also in other formats we have
organized ourselves
and created tools and instruments to
contribute with specific capabilities
uh to the wider transatlantic security
architecture
so from my perspective pesco or other
instruments should not be making the
transatlantic cooperation more difficult
but i also have to say that we europeans
or members of the european union who are
also members of nato
have a special task to explain to those
who are not members of these
organizations
what it takes to be involved in these in
these structures and
in these initiatives and it really is an
internal stratcom effort
that we need to ensure the transparency
just by saying that these processes are
mutually
complementary and transparent we don't
make that transparency happen so we have
a special task in that respect
and i should also say that on the staff
to staff level already today the
cooperation
is is excellent i mean it has reached
its uh maximum potential so there's
always a need for more
political push if we want to see more
complementarity and more
uh output it's really up to the
politicians
thank you jan uh and if you think about
some follow-up questions
you know do let me know uh either
through the app or
you know just think about it right now
uh and
then we will come to the round of
questions uh now marian
uh i wanted to ask you specifically
specifically about slovakia
um well slovakia is this very
interesting case of a country which used
to be
a laggard with respect to defense
spending
but it is no longer the case uh in the
last few years you know
slovakia has ramped up uh its defense
spending so it's now at the level of
close to two percent of gdp
uh which is almost meeting the nato
recommendation
uh but there is this nagging question
whether this you know hike in defense
spending
is not related to this single purchase
of
um you know f-16
and will this continue in the years to
come
and kind of a loosely related question
to that when you look into the
european defense fund and you think
about the future of slovak defense
industry
do you think the slovak defense industry
will benefit from the european defense
fund or
is european defense fund more likely to
serve
bigger industries and bigger member
states
uh yes you're right we wish
f-16s could be cheaper uh but
this is not this is not the reality but
uh seriously
uh we are paying a lot uh for
for this project as it is the biggest
project uh
in the history of slovak uh monetization
uh
but at the same time it's not the only
uh it's not the only project
so but what what's uh
worrisome is uh it's not uh uh
to find the the the projects which are
needed uh
because there's a big gap of uh
modernization
from the past uh in in
the slower case uh what uh is much
harder is uh first
to make uh stability of the uh of the
defense budget
because uh yes it's it's nice to see two
percent
of gdp but still there's uh discussion
going on
and and and good ideas uh from
from different uh different uh people uh
whether we don't need to or whether we
need to pay uh so much uh for the
defense and it uh and
and uh this uh securing uh defense
budget is still ongoing process that's
first
and second how to spend uh how to spend
uh the money once you have it
how to spend it in a proper and
effective manner uh
this is uh this is problem of
procurement law this problem of
very complicated processes uh especially
inside of the european union and this is
uh something we should we should work uh
work on uh because otherwise we will not
be
competitive to the countries like china
or like russia but also
uh compared to for example the united
states uh it's
it's much harder to acquire anything uh
in in european union
uh not only on national level and not
even speaking on
on some kind of uh international
multilateral
cooperation when it comes to edf
this could be very helpful uh and we see
it as a
as a good good tool
and uh and uh something which is uh very
promising uh for the future but at the
same time
uh it needs to be uh it's it needs to be
taken
uh off from all uh european countries as
european tool so we need to be sure and
uh
you are coming from poland and and you
know that very well
uh but it's not only about uh uh poland
it's also
uh it's also visible here that we need
to be
uh we need to be sure that it's not
helping only the
the big ones uh it's helping to the
smaller ones
including smaller uh defense entities uh
all over uh central europe for example
uh
so uh so this is what uh what
uh still needs to be uh still needs to
be discussed
how to how to manage but at the same
time
we need uh competitive uh projects
uh from these countries from companies
so the companies need to be active and
governments needs to
needs to help them thank you marion
now let me turn to our remotes
the tv speakers with whom we are
connected remotely
i would like to turn to jan olive lindt
he is the
state secretary from the swedish
ministry of defense
welcome sir and let me just
say that we are delighted to have you
here with us sweden
is a country which
which has a very large industrial
history
and which has very developed defense
industry
would you agree with the statement that
uh you know europeans are capable of
creating
a major pan-european defense industries
which can you know
freely uh successfully compete on the
global stage
well thank you very much and thank you
for inviting me to this conference
i'm sorry i couldn't be on site with my
colleagues
on this panel but i'm impressed how we
could
organize this well this is a very
important question and as you mentioned
we we have
a fairly large industrial base still
in sweden and i think
what we did a number of years ago was to
make it very competitive because because
we couldn't be the only one
uh offering them uh orders
uh so they had to be very competitive on
the international
arena this work started like some 25
years ago
the other thing that i would like to
mention is that
last december we we passed the bill
defence bill in our parliament which uh
meant that we increased our military
spending
uh by the largest amount since the
1960s so very much of the budget goes
to the orders for defense materials
science and technology but also to to
to build up our national uh defense
capabilities both on the military side
and on the civilian side i think when
it comes to a european perspective i
think there are some
uh key issues uh and i think uh
that my colleagues already mentioned
them that the one does not exclude the
other
we at the same same time as we build up
our european
uh capabilities defense industrial base
uh we do not we we can't exclude the
transatlantic link
uh from that we have to the one does not
exclude the other as i said
and i think that's for for many
different reasons
uh because we need the capabilities
not only produced in europe but also
from
from the other side of the atlantic
ocean
um i think there are many initiatives
right now that
that we could benefit from uh edf
is one of them it's a fairly new
initiative i think we have to learn from
it
we have some good experience from the
past
uh given my background within science
and technology that we were used to
a very competitive environment when it
come came to
funding from the european commission
but i think at the same time it's so
important to keep
uh the member states and their
uh will to to acquire perhaps different
systems
it's not to look into a system
with a single source industry that could
provide everybody with the same product
or system i think competition is so
vital
uh in these days because that will drive
us into new systems
new innovation that is so much
needed so i think for us
it's it's to deal with uh our uh
industrial base to promote it and i know
we have uh
such good cooperation uh both uh
with the the slovak republic and the
czech republic but also
with poland and other nations and i
think that's the key
for us to be able to develop together
uh the systems we need for the future uh
i think i stopped there for the moment
thank you
that's a really interesting perspective
also from sweden
which i understand is involve industrial
cooperation especially with czechia
so let me just turn to the
representative of industry because we've
been speaking so far with the
representatives of national
administrations but let's
look into the other side of the coin
here
mr frank howe i would like to ask about
your perception
of these new european instruments
european defense
fund and the older one european defense
agencies
do you find the operation by existence
helpful to the industry and actually
meeting the needs
of the industry
thank you and thank you for the
invitation to this panel while i'm the
industrial exotic
on this panel i think all these european
initiatives
are heading into the right direction
while
i think we are much too slow
and we don't use the uh
the real firepower of the industry not
in the right
right manner we have a lack of
innovation
and if i look into the landscape and see
so many different
systems throughout europe that doesn't
make sense for me and if you go to
theater we all go
jointly out of the eu or nato into these
missions and everybody is wearing their
own boots their
own pistols their own weapon systems
their own
ammunition and i think it is
hard to be competitive against the rest
of the world if we stick to
so many different systems we have in use
and if you compare europe with the us so
with russia or china
i think we are pretty much far behind
and if i go to the to the land system
seeing
average age of main battle tanks
throughout europe 40 years
less than 50 percent have been developed
manufactured in europe
and if i go to the heavy artillery it's
only 12
of the systems have been developed and
manufactured in europe i think
there is a lot a lot of room to improve
for all of us
um to be at least competitive
and i think as long as we don't get the
right push
from from the member states
we will not change the game and if it
takes for instance 30 years
to develop new systems if i go for the
new
fighter for the fcas which will be there
2040 that's in
20 years from now i am gcs 2035
and going to the history of uh of
fighters
of transport aircrafts it doesn't make
sense that uh
we spend two three two degree
decay it gets to to to generate
something new i think
we don't have the right setup these days
we
are too egoistic
in every nation and we have to look for
more
joint then more
by whatever is available wherever it
comes from
thank you thank you sir so we
we heard three national perspectives
from slovakia
from czechia from sweden we have also
heard the perspective from industry so
the floor
is now available for yourself for your
questions this is something you
would like to hear further from
our two representatives here on the
stage and
the people who with whom we also connect
remotely
feel free to ask a question
and i i don't see takers at this point
in time so let me
ask uh you know everybody the question
uh and that gives you time to prepare
your
questions uh well uh
we've seen the latest pentagon proposal
for the defense budget which kind of
de-prioritizes traditional procurement
and emphasizes research and development
do you see a reflection of that
in your national budgets do you see a
reflection of that
in you know industries plans are you
considering you know
the application of the development of
you know
research and development in new
technologies uh
further investment in the issues of
artificial intelligence
uh sonic weapons microelectronics
perhaps you know the first person i
would like to ask about it is
is our representatives from industry
mr han
um i think i said it already i missed
the fire power i missed the speed
we are so slow and i don't see that
these
initiatives really plays a role as a
game changer i don't see this game
changing
well i see more or less two big programs
but they are not based on
nato or an eu this is a german french
initiative on on prepping for new
technologies
and i think again it we are too slow
technologies are changing i would say
sometimes
in some areas every year and we are
shooting for new weapon systems in 20
years
that doesn't match
thank you sir uh now let me uh ask mr
lind uh how about sweden is sweden uh
redefining
its uh defense procurement priorities
it relying similar to that of the
pentagon
or this is not happening yet
well i think it's when you look upon
research and technology and science and
technology
i think there are different reasons
because there is a strong push for that
in sweden
one being that you have to invest in in
r t in order to be a competent buyer and
that's what the industry is asking for
we are the ones that will set up the
requirements for
what the systems we need in the future
and that has to be based
uh among other things on on heavy
investment
in r t i think the help we could have
is to have uh come together
for example within the framework of the
edf
in order to push for more investment
in in r t because that will help us
uh in the future to speed up if you will
as frank if i may
call you that uh mention in his
intervention
uh the whole process but then again i
think we have to realize
that defense markets is not a perfect
market
but we do i think the eu has done a
great deal
of making it more competitive and i
think
i don't know whether we ever will reach
the stage where the defense market
will become a perfect market uh
like other markets but i think there are
many things that
are done in that context and for us
it has been so important to have a
competitive industry
in a for example european perspective
and i think when the government spends
money on
r t it's a different thing when industry
spends money on r t
and we have to go and look into the and
i i'm not aiming for that right now into
the
different trl levels uh because there is
a difference where
government is spending its money on r t
and where the industry is spending what
is important
is to come together to see that we have
a complete system for that
so yes in a sense we are going in that
direction as well
okay thank you uh i don't know whether
you gentlemen would like to volunteer
some response of this question or
or not necessarily i can i can touch
upon this
this question of r d
one of the commitments of of pesco is uh
is
to spend more uh to spend two percent of
of uh
not gdp but two percent of the defense
budgets for
uh for research and development and uh
and uh for example in case of slovakia
it's about i don't know ten
ten times less uh so so to get there is
uh
is a really big challenge uh for us but
uh
it's also uh another uh another problem
that uh
we are increasing uh the the
uh the budget uh devoted to for research
but
but uh we need to have uh partners on
the other side uh we need to have uh the
projects
which we can support this sometimes uh
sometimes problem at the same time i i
very much agree with uh mr hong who is
saying that
the whole processes are very small very
slow uh
because uh once you you can invest to
the
to the research or to development of
some product but uh
once you uh see that uh putting
or placing the product on the market uh
takes i don't know 10 years
uh then uh the appetite for investing uh
to
uh to this uh to this project uh or to
this product uh
is is uh decreasing so so it's
interconnection of uh
of the of the wheel and and the
money which is uh which is uh ready
but at the same time it's about the
whole cycle of uh of
uh defense production and uh sometimes i
i i feel that uh in case of european
union we are uh
we are uh creating all those type of
obstacles for ourselves
we are not helping and not boosting uh
to the
to the defense uh to the defense
industry but
we are sometimes creating or not
sometimes but very often
we are creating obstacles how to make it
more complicated for our
uh for ourselves so so this is where we
need to work uh
very much uh and as i as i said at the
very beginning
uh otherwise we will not be competitive
and and this is what
can make it troubles for us thank you
yeah i mean i i agree with
marianne uh but we have to realize
there's a paradigm shift happening and
that we need to broaden the definition
of the defense market or the defense
industry does not only equal defense
market
i mean traditionally the governments
would throw money into research and that
would be spin-offs for the civilian use
today we're seeing startups that produce
technologies that actually
impact the way we organize ourselves and
the way what the capabilities that get
employed
so i'd say we need to broaden that
definition and we need to have a genuine
dialogue public-private partnership
uh when it comes to innovation but i
agree we need to increase the spending
on on r t or r d
in our case it's 0.5 of the
uh two percent guideline a different
percent guideline
and certainly this is an area where
standards help
the european defense agency serves as a
good platform to organize
both the companies and and the member
states of the eu but there are also new
and good tools
uh emerging uh at the nato level where
uh research and innovation has been
parked and invisible to the member
states
for many years so that is that is now
changing and
agree we we need to cooperate more but
with that broadened perspective and a
new definition
thank you jan uh and thank you marion
now i've seen that we
have a question from the audience uh
matthew rhodes
the marshall center
not german marshall fund but marshall
center i'm always getting confused with
all right
yeah thank you margin and hello jan
hronic and marion meyer
since at least the 1990s there's always
been discussions about whether there can
be joint procurement or other defense
cooperation
bilaterally between the czech republic
and slovakia or at a regional level
through the v4 or other frameworks
how do you see the prospects for this
type of defense cooperation going
forward
maybe i'll start with this
it's a very targeted question i'm a big
fan
or i i used to be a big fan of of uh
join
joint procurement uh but uh until
uh i took the position of uh deputy
minister
uh i'm i'm seeing the things
more realistic i would say uh
i think it's very difficult to to
synchronize uh there is a political will
but
but it's very difficult to synchronize
the needs
the budget the money uh
some requests uh coming from uh from the
armed forces
because uh although we've got
uh very much in common uh
sometimes it's not so much in common uh
so it means that uh
the the uh czech soldier is asking
something else than uh than the slovak
soldier
and sometimes making uh the the process
more complicated
so so uh but it doesn't mean that we
need to resign on
on these i'm i'm just saying that we
need to be more realistic
there were big projects or big ideas of
the project in the past and we
uh we didn't succeed with them like
a procurement of 3d rudders maybe 10
years ago or 12 years ago
and and after uh next decade we
we decided to go on our own way although
very similar one
but there are some projects like for
example in the v4
procurement of ammunition hopefully
we'll get to
some real outcomes so i think
uh coming from bottom-up uh is
the better is the better uh solution in
this case
and uh and it's still about uh good
communication
uh on on the bilateral or multilateral
level and i think
with the czech republic we are able to
discuss very openly
uh but also with other countries in the
in the region but
uh to have the expectation that we are
going to procure
for example tracked vehicles now we are
in the
in the same process or similar process
we both need tracked vehicles as a part
of
fulfilling commitment to nato but uh
we were not able uh to uh to come up
with the joint solution
because of many uh different factors so
sometimes
we need to be realistic and uh and uh
maybe and not to
create like two two big expectations
thanks for this realistic assessment uh
you know um
and thank you matt for being a
persistent fan of visiograd defense
cooperation
uh to be honest we haven't cracked fully
the the formula we've been trying uh at
this forum
uh in in all sorts of formats and in
addition to to the conditions that
marian mentioned i'd also say
we need to be able to align our
strategic priorities and strategic
cultures
and one of the lessons learned from the
past six or seven years
is that uh the bishopra defense
cooperation format
has not been able to adjust to the
changing environment and changing
strategic priorities within nato and eu
we sort of got stuck in the smart
defense era of
10 to 12 years ago when we thought that
we can just you know
do less for well do more
for for less money and that we can
harmonize our acquisition plans and
miracle will happen
it has not happened and we are still
working together
uh to to to find the best and realistic
projects
and it doesn't have to be about
procurement i think we've uh aligned
ourselves in terms of training
the visual ground battle group has
served as a
useful tool for interoperability and
training and exercising and
standardization
uh but we can also look at the
requirements by nato
and see whether bishograath group can
can
provide some training capacities uh be
it uh
pilots uh you know all sorts of and we
can also join our forces uh
in out of uh area operations or
deployments abroad
so i'd say like marianne bear with us
we're still working on it i think we're
much more realistic than we were
10 years ago we still haven't cracked
the code
and it requires both political will uh
bureaucratic persistence
and perhaps also the the the military
and military attention uh
so you know to be continued thank you
but i understand if there is a will but
oh definitely yeah
otherwise we would not be sitting
exactly exactly that's that's
that's showing a lot let me move to some
uh
questions that we got uh on on the app
uh we have a question here from heidi
maurer
which you can read european countries
tried for decades unsuccessfully to
collaborate
in defense what is in your view the main
success ingredient why it will
work now and well let me take this
question straight to
um the representative of industry frank
howen
and then perhaps also like to ask um jan
olive lint for your views on on this
question
i got already a lot of nice hints
obstacles defense market standards and
synchronizing of needs
first of all i have to say the defense
market is not a european market so far
we are still have the the situation that
nations are asking for offset
requirements co-production requirements
and it's not an open market it's a still
a closed market pretty often you are
confronted with
national eyes only so
the defense market is regulated and
industry cannot
crack that wall the governments could
crack it
the governments have to design to make
cooperation between the nations much
smoother
and end up with more similar products
please we need a framework
at least within europe to
allow corporations open corporations not
closed corporations
and to exchange technologies even that's
an obstacle whether it's in the north or
south or east or west
technology extinct exchange is still
hardly regulated
and i don't like to talk about export
regulations they are totally different
as well
as long as we don't design a real
european defense market
my best guess is we end up in a city of
nowhere
and we are again through these
obstacles much too slow there is no real
european
defense market
thank you and jan olive lind would you
like to say a few words on
on this issue why whether we really
have uh overcome the obstacles and
whether
the success is likely to happen
well thank you very much first of all
could i offer a small comment on the
previous question that
when i look upon it from a nordic
perspective it's not
so easy always to cooperate between our
nordic neighbors with our nordic
neighbors so i think
uh that has to do with it with a number
of
questions even though we have a very
strong
uh framework agreement the nordefco
agreement
but uh there i think one has to take
into account the background
security of supply the security
policy of different nations for example
in the nordic countries
uh so i think that's that's a question
that is on the table
all the time and i think the progress
is being made as well well i think
we've been pretty successful given
what where we came from and i think
uh mr hound you know uh the swedish
industrial base
very well and you know what we are doing
uh i think that's a pretty strong case
uh for creating a very competitive
industry
uh and i think what we have today and i
fully share your view that
it's not only about the european market
it's about the global market
as well uh so i think we are making
uh progress uh the governments uh
they most certainly have a stake in uh
but i also think the
industry itself has a stake in this as
well
to create necessary collaborative
arrangements between
uh different industries in order to to
uh support a more competitive
industrial market thank you
thank you uh now um we i don't know over
you gentlemen
there's no need to respond to all the
questions here because we have
more questions you know uh asked uh
and the next one uh is from nenate
nejovic
krnezevich they had me read it out
given that the mana is already being set
aside for nato
will the new spending in pasco overload
the budgets of the country so basically
here the question is whether we do have
a duplication already happening in terms
of resources and
yeah let me direct this question to you
well i disagree with that
definition of uh setting money aside for
nato
every every dollar every euro spent
either nationally or within
international cooperation
projects is uh accounted for both nato
defense spending
and uh when spent on specific
capabilities
uh that money you know stays uh very
often
uh in the in in your own national uh
national system so to say uh so uh
there is no setting aside of money there
is no uh
there is no membership fee to be paid
for nato uh
and uh in in the similar way there is no
membership fee to be paid for for
pesco projects the money gets spent for
specific
capabilities on specific procurement
projects or on specific operations
what is important is that
whether these capabilities are developed
under pesco projects or
nato nato cooperation they need to be
available
they need to be available when member
states of these organizations decide to
use
those capabilities and deploy those for
the benefit of
nato collective defense of course and
it's also important that uh
third can countries or non-member states
of the european union
uh of nate non-member states of
uh get access to to pasco projects and
we've seen
uh a success with the military mobility
project having our
north american allies and uh and norway
joining uh that
project which bears a significant
political symbolism
so let's you know move aside from the
division of that
of that resources after all all member
states of nato
and and eu should be operating on single
set of forces
and therefore the non-duplicity is
embedded in their uh
in the definition so basically you
disagree with the premise of the
question
right i disagree yeah thank you maria
would you like to add something
i completely agree with uh with uh jana
uh it's not either or uh question
uh investing or or uh
or investing into these initiatives so
for us
uh we need to for example for slovakia
speaking on behalf of slovakia we are
repeating everywhere
uh on the european level as well that uh
cornerstone of our security is nato
uh i think it's the same for for czech
republic
and for poland uh but it doesn't mean
that we
we are not ready to invest uh
financially or
or in any other way into initiatives
on the european level but uh because uh
investing into european uh these uh
defense initiatives means investing into
into nato's capabilities so so it's
very easy and uh and we just need to
make sure that the we don't duplicate uh
duplicate activities
and and
strategic review processes which are now
going on
preparation of strategic compass and at
the same time
preparation of strategic concept which
will be
which will be uh prepared very soon uh
are a good uh you know good uh
frameworks uh
for uh for excluding these duplicities
and making sure uh how
how the things should be so also i think
i also disagree with
that uh notion of that uh question
thank you uh now let me uh move
to the uh next question which is being
uh asked anonymously
and it's referring to yesterday's
decision of nato
to create a defense innovation
accelerator accelerator
and nato innovation fund
how do you think this is relating to the
eu defense fund
and the european defense agency
so i hope you can see the question
if not let me just repeat it yesterday
nato agreed to create
a defense innovation accelerator and
a nato innovation fund how do panelists
see
that relating to the eu defense fund and
the european defense
agency uh i will ask our two
speakers here with the in the audience
in a moment but let me just start maybe
with the
um again with the representative of
industry frank round
uh from knds uh
if you have comment to offer on that
uh i think this is another pretty good
initiative
but i stick to what i said if
governments don't
create the right framework what is the
value
okay i understand thank you
um well uh well sweden is not a nato
member so i'm not quite sure that
uh yeah and all of lindy would like to
uh you know say anything on this matter
but if you do do let us know in the
meantime let me just
pass floor to marion and uh jan
i think this is this is in line what we
just uh
just said
for me uh like debate about uh uh
nato and eu to be the the same uh
organizations is is is nonsense uh for
to expect that both both organizations
will do the same and and the outcome
will be the same as
uh is just out of reality
so i mean uh that uh
nato has its own processes uh yesterday
the
agenda 2030 uh focusing on innovations
and focusing on on adjusting to the new
security environment to new technologies
have been
have been presented and this goes in
line with that
uh so it means uh uh of course uh there
are
uh countries which are both in nato and
eu but there are also countries
like united states like uh like uh
turkey
uh like like norway which are out of the
european union who are big
investors who are big producers uh
and investing a lot into research uh so
it means that
that uh i don't uh i don't see this
as contradictory i see it as
complementary and if
of course it's the way uh how the the
uh national states national members how
how they manage the whole uh the whole
uh situation and the whole initiatives
so i think that
it could be once uh it will be done in
the proper way it could be very helpful
for both organizations and for all uh
member states
thank you anza for many years nato has
been seen as
the golden standard for for a military
standardization
and uh by creating these these new
instruments
it's just recognizing that nato will
continue to be that
golden standard and it needs to be seen
as
another tool to foster innovation to
help the allies
identify and generate new technologies
and transfer them into
into nato's tasks and and core missions
and european defense fund on the other
hand is a is a financial mechanism
uh common european funding funded by
common european budget to help the
european members to close certain
capability gaps
identified uh as a part of csdp ambition
but again very much complementary to
to to nato's mission in at least the
czech and if i may say
also slovak view and uh as marion said
we
what we need and it it's a task for for
for all of us we need to avoid the
institutional decoupling between nato
and the european union
the worst could happen is a competition
between the strategic concept
on the one hand and strategic compass on
the other hand
and it may be automatic to to to many of
us here in the audience
but as i said in the beginning we have a
huge task
internal strategic communications
ensuring that transparency and mutual
understanding about
what it is that we're trying to do under
these two very important processes
excellent thank you and also very
reassuring
um well let me now turn to a question
of our norwegian colleague colleague
aslatoya
there's a strong question which is what
we can
expect from asleep with nato pivot to
asia
will this create new room for europe on
the
defense procurement huh europe only
defense procurement i'm assuming that
ashley means
europe not eu given where he's from
so let me just uh take you straight to
frank hound
uh sir can you offer your thoughts on
whether that would be a good idea to
have a
europe-only defense procurement
uh i'm i'm pretty sure if i look in the
capabilities
of europe as of today
um i think this will create new room
um for for europe or for nato
i i do not mix that up it's europe or
nato
finally but i think the capabilities
taken as of today
i don't think that europe is the right
the right shape these days
okay so you think that that's
unrealistic at this point in time
okay uh mr miss thank you mr linde
uh do you also think this is unrealistic
or this is you know
it's kind of a long-term goal that
europeans might
want to have maybe not really speak
about it openly at the conference but
yeah well i don't know if i should
comment on
nato initiatives and pivots here
uh but i think it's it's for us it's a
global market
uh that is absolutely key for us
to to have it have in mind uh
the european competence and the
industrial base
will absolutely be key but to create the
european fortress
is not what we are uh looking for in the
future
i think it's so important that we we
should not compare with the u.s
because that's a completely different
market uh
and supply chain but they are
so important for us to have in our
european minds
when we try to create the most effective
market for us
and supply change i think we have to
take into account
what happens in asia as well
and uh very carefully follow that uh to
see how we
have to relate to that in the future
thank you yes can i can i just add that
um first of all uh it's a bit
far-fetched to
to say that nato is pivoting to to asia
if you read
yesterday's communique adopted by the
heads of state and government at the
brussels summit
you will see that nato is still a very
euro-atlantic organization in its very
nature
it has just broadened its perspective
and it now includes uh
challenges and issues including uh
chinese behavior
uh in its uh wider perspective and how
it uh
sees the development of the security
security and defense
landscape including threats and
challenges um and
having said that it still doesn't take
the responsibility from its member
states
uh to to build its own defenses and to
to be preparing for collective defense
and to cooperate in in crisis management
operations
on the contrary uh it requires uh
us to do more uh and to take into
account
all different uh security developments
including
in the indo-pacific region but also in
other domains
so i don't i don't i'm i'm finding it
difficult to to connect the
uh wide-earning strategic perspective to
the mechanisms of european procurement
if i can be honest
i understand but overall you don't think
it would be a
great idea to have a european
procurement only
i don't understand a question really
that's that part of the question
right um okay um
let me just turn now to uh the question
of
uh justin lane
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the question here is quite perhaps
technical but very interesting
how concerned should the region be
meaning
i assume central europe will be
increased brain drain of potential
intellect intelligence analysts and
artificial intelligence development
talent
moving overseas to regional defense
um well let me
take this one to mariana is not a
problem only for a different sector it's
a problem of
of many other sectors and uh this is
something which is big challenge for
for countries of the region uh to create
uh
to create a good
environment appropriate environment with
uh with good financial
uh conditions and everything uh what's
connected
with uh with uh conditions for a work
so of course it's not it's not easy to
keep
to keep these talented people here
our government is focusing also uh
on this on this issue trying to invest
into the education
into uh some other uh other
mechanisms that could be helpful uh to
keep the people here but
uh but of course it's uh it's a matter
of market
once there is more attraction from
outside
it's very difficult to to keep the
people
to keep the people here our our
goal is to uh
to uh produce the new generation i would
say
uh of uh of uh professionals
uh because this is something uh new
technologies
new new initiatives new
new kind of new kind of stuff which
is related to uh defense of the future
uh this is something completely new uh
and uh and we need we need the new
generation of the people who uh from the
very beginning
could be somehow more stick to uh to uh
these national regional uh industries
and
and frameworks uh so very very difficult
question a very difficult question
because it's not uh the
question for uh one country only
or for one region only it's a very
global i would say
uh problem and and it's not only related
as i said
to defense uh sector although it could
have
in this case it could have uh some
security consequences
uh well maybe i just like ask a quick
follow-up to
frank hound if you see this kind of the
problem with a cry acquiring talent in
europe altogether
and best talents migrating away from
europe
to the united states or even china
i have no fear about china i fear if
about the us but i think europe is such
a nice area
lots of people want to live in we are
such a nice area and we have to fight
for the talents yes and
i'm pretty sure that if we don't like to
lose them we will not lose them and we
will create always an environment where
they
feel comfortable with my biggest concern
is not the brain drain
my biggest concern and i stick to it is
the framework
given to the industry
okay thank you well
we are running short of time but
i would like to ask still one question
from the list
that we have here from the audience uh
how do you evaluate threats related
related
to intellectual property being acquired
by companies
linked to the states like china
especially
within critical infrastructure
so well with that
uh again perhaps i will start
from frank hound uh and then perhaps we
will
turn to the audience to be to our two
panels here
uh that's a real real
big threat and uh we
all within the defense industry have
been attacked
and we know how complicated it is to
protect ourselves against these threats
and to at least let our employees
participate
in the electronic world there are days
and weeks and sometimes months where we
have to isolate the company 100
to make sure that nothing
is stolen that's that's one of the
biggest the cyber issue on industry is
one of the real
big issues we are dealing with and this
is
really highly expensive because the
attacks
are real and not in theory
and we are we are more than warned and
we
take care and this absorbs a lot of
money i would love to
invest in our r t activities
thank you sir uh jan if you can very
quickly uh thanks for this excellent
question it's a serious problem
uh the czech government recently adopted
not only a strategy to counter hybrid
interference and we count this kind of
behavior as a hybrid interference
but we also adopted a lot for screening
of foreign investment but i should also
say that it's
not only an issue for the critical
infrastructure but we should be also
looking at uh
startups and and new companies that work
in the emerging disruptive technology
uh part of the part of the market
because they are very vulnerable
perhaps even more than than some of the
critical infrastructure companies
excellent thank you uh i think we came
to the end of the panel
uh and i would like to thank our all our
speakers
i think that there are perhaps three
conclusions we can take
away with us number one from what we
heard is that
uh indeed uh you know both eu and
uh nato are uh developing their own you
know
defense mechanisms but there is not
necessarily the need of duplication here
just uh uh you know there is a lot of
complementarity here
uh and uh there is no need to think
about you know duplication
indeed and thank you for visualization
we have heard some
uh very interesting you know take on
relationship with uh with china
and uh as well as pivot to uh to asia
uh and uh i think that this will be an
increasing uh
problem you know the the issue of
property rights this is a
a question for defense industry which
increasingly will become
uh troublesome i guess and finally there
was we had very
interesting exchange on uh you know the
procurement cooperation
between two neighboring nations but even
within the vicia grad group obviously we
heard a very realistic assessment that
there is a will but you know when it
comes down to
the implementation it can become very
difficult but it's very good that there
is a will there
so uh with that let me just conclude
that can i just ask everyone to thank
our speakers
thank you
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you