1 00:00:00,930 --> 00:00:08,220 [Music] 2 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,039 hello bonjour and ahoy 3 00:00:17,039 --> 00:00:18,560 on tuesday evening we hosted the 4 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,240 globesec awards ceremony at the 5 00:00:20,240 --> 00:00:21,760 bratislava castle 6 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:23,519 where we awarded the annual czech and 7 00:00:23,519 --> 00:00:25,519 slovak transatlantic award to both 8 00:00:25,519 --> 00:00:26,960 general john allen 9 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,840 and vatsville havel in memoriam and here 10 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:30,720 are the highlights 11 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,680 from day two we kicked off the day on 12 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:35,520 the main stage hearing from the foreign 13 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:37,200 affairs minister of slovakia 14 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:39,120 and austria as well as the deputy 15 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:40,800 foreign affairs minister of italy on how 16 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:42,480 to strengthen europe's rule on the 17 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:44,239 international stage 18 00:00:44,239 --> 00:00:45,840 staying on the subject of european 19 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:47,600 diplomacy we heard from the foreign 20 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:49,120 affairs minister of croatia 21 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,600 north macedonia and slovenia on their 22 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:52,960 respective trajectories towards 23 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:54,879 achieving an ever greater european 24 00:00:54,879 --> 00:00:56,079 integration 25 00:00:56,079 --> 00:00:58,000 this was followed by a lively discussion 26 00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:59,600 among foreign affairs ministers of the 27 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:00,719 visigrad 4 28 00:01:00,719 --> 00:01:02,879 which included poland hungary czech 29 00:01:02,879 --> 00:01:04,799 republic and slovakia 30 00:01:04,799 --> 00:01:07,360 mayors from bratislava and budapest as 31 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,360 well as a voice from the czech republic 32 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:11,200 discussed the reactions of cities to the 33 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:12,880 pandemic and the need to improve 34 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:14,320 communications with government and 35 00:01:14,320 --> 00:01:16,159 generate more capacity in times of 36 00:01:16,159 --> 00:01:16,799 crisis 37 00:01:16,799 --> 00:01:18,640 with the meaning between biden and putin 38 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:20,799 taking place experts from russia 39 00:01:20,799 --> 00:01:23,040 the eu and north america speculated on 40 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:24,840 the potential outcomes and what to look 41 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,479 for finally 42 00:01:26,479 --> 00:01:27,920 we ended the day by hearing from 43 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,000 renowned thinker francis fukiyama 44 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:31,200 about the need to rebuild the 45 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:32,960 foundations of democracy and trust 46 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:34,560 throughout societies 47 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,720 our list of international expert and 48 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:38,000 renowned thinkers is 49 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,159 far from over so stay tuned for more 50 00:01:40,159 --> 00:01:54,620 video highlights and recaps 51 00:01:54,620 --> 00:01:58,339 [Music] 52 00:01:58,710 --> 00:02:00,800 [Applause] 53 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,759 [Music] 54 00:02:03,759 --> 00:02:05,920 ladies and gentlemen please welcome the 55 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,560 moderator of the last day at globe sec 56 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:09,840 2021 57 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:11,300 julia bellus 58 00:02:11,300 --> 00:02:14,360 [Music] 59 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,000 hello everyone so welcome to this 60 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:22,959 session 61 00:02:22,959 --> 00:02:24,959 um and a very warm welcome to the 62 00:02:24,959 --> 00:02:26,400 panelists who are 63 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,120 coming in from all over i guess europe 64 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:30,480 and the uk 65 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,040 um my name is julia blues i'm a senior 66 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,200 health correspondent at vox 67 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,920 and it's my pleasure to be here today i 68 00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:39,200 think we're talking about one of the 69 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:39,599 most 70 00:02:39,599 --> 00:02:42,720 important issues of the pandemic 71 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:44,720 how to build trust in vaccines in an 72 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,160 environment where it's 73 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,480 kind of exceptionally difficult to know 74 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:50,800 who or what to trust 75 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,040 not only do we have this kind of 76 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,200 onslaught of information and 77 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,319 scientific knowledge coming at us at all 78 00:02:58,319 --> 00:02:59,840 times but we also 79 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:01,920 have to deal with bad actors who are 80 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:03,280 spreading misinformation and 81 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:04,879 disinformation 82 00:03:04,879 --> 00:03:06,560 and so the focus today is on how to 83 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,280 fight information in security and we 84 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:10,159 have 85 00:03:10,159 --> 00:03:13,599 a distinguished panel to help us so i'll 86 00:03:13,599 --> 00:03:15,120 start with the 87 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,120 person who's joining us from beautiful 88 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,360 bratislava 89 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,080 miroslava serviris is the senior 90 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:23,840 research fellow in the democracy and 91 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,440 resilience program 92 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:27,760 in the globsec policy institute here in 93 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:29,920 bratislava 94 00:03:29,920 --> 00:03:32,799 we also have henry collis who's joining 95 00:03:32,799 --> 00:03:35,120 us from london 96 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,280 he is the deputy director of national 97 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,200 security communications in the uk 98 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:40,400 cabinet office 99 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,319 where he co-leads cross-government 100 00:03:42,319 --> 00:03:44,319 planning and delivery of communication 101 00:03:44,319 --> 00:03:45,200 activity 102 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,440 to achieve the uk's national security 103 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:48,959 objectives 104 00:03:48,959 --> 00:03:51,120 we also have melinda frost who's joining 105 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:52,720 us from geneva 106 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:54,720 um in the world health organization 107 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,720 she's the leader of the translate 108 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:58,159 science team 109 00:03:58,159 --> 00:04:00,959 and working on the inf infodemic 110 00:04:00,959 --> 00:04:04,480 management kovit 19 response at who 111 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,920 and so today um like the um 112 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,400 infodemic we have questions coming at us 113 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:11,519 from all angles 114 00:04:11,519 --> 00:04:13,680 so people will be submitting questions 115 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:15,120 via zoom 116 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,759 via the globsec app and of course for 117 00:04:17,759 --> 00:04:20,160 everyone in the room you can stand up 118 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:21,358 or raise your hand when you have a 119 00:04:21,358 --> 00:04:25,280 question and go to the microphone there 120 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:28,960 when you're called on and so i think the 121 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:30,880 the best way to start the panel today is 122 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:32,240 to kind of give it 123 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,240 give a sense to the audience of the 124 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,479 problem the scale of the problem 125 00:04:36,479 --> 00:04:38,800 um and i thought from your various 126 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:40,880 vantage points we could talk about 127 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,680 how the misinformation or disinformation 128 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,600 campaigns you're tracking are affecting 129 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,080 the vaccine rollout 130 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,800 and maybe we could start with miroslava 131 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:52,160 thank you very much julia 132 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,040 also for this kind introduction so when 133 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:56,000 we speak about the 134 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,080 info they're making and uh this 135 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,479 information affecting vaccine rollout i 136 00:05:00,479 --> 00:05:01,039 think 137 00:05:01,039 --> 00:05:04,320 the obvious uh answer would be that yes 138 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,800 obviously this information does affect a 139 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:08,400 rollout of the vaccination 140 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,800 but then we also can't make sweeping 141 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,039 generalizations i think it's much better 142 00:05:13,039 --> 00:05:15,199 in some countries you know some 143 00:05:15,199 --> 00:05:17,759 countries where obviously conspiracy 144 00:05:17,759 --> 00:05:18,639 theories about 145 00:05:18,639 --> 00:05:20,800 covet 19 are not so prominent such as 146 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:22,880 for example in austria 147 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,440 they're according to our globsec trends 148 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,520 2021 data we see 149 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,840 that actually the disinformation 150 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:31,840 campaigns do not have such an effect 151 00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:32,639 because 152 00:05:32,639 --> 00:05:34,960 um the vaccination rollout there is more 153 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:35,919 successful 154 00:05:35,919 --> 00:05:38,639 than in other ce countries um such as 155 00:05:38,639 --> 00:05:39,360 for example 156 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,320 romania or bulgaria where you have quite 157 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:43,120 um 158 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,919 large prominence of some covet 19 159 00:05:45,919 --> 00:05:48,400 related conspiracy theories so we do see 160 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,280 this this link between between 161 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:52,000 conspiracy 162 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,320 theories uh about covid19 or 163 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:55,680 disinformation 164 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,440 and and vaccination rollout but also 165 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,639 i would like to um just stress or point 166 00:06:02,639 --> 00:06:03,039 out 167 00:06:03,039 --> 00:06:05,840 that when we speak about this and 168 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:08,479 conspiracy theories we often 169 00:06:08,479 --> 00:06:10,880 imagine you know the trolls in in saint 170 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:11,919 petersburg 171 00:06:11,919 --> 00:06:13,360 spreading this information which is 172 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,560 absolutely true this has been a part of 173 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,120 of roll out of some vaccines where 174 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,360 really target of 175 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,400 strong disinformation campaigns or 176 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,400 information operations seeking to 177 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,080 discredit some of these vaccines 178 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,720 particularly the astrazeneca vaccine 179 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,759 but in the information chaos that is the 180 00:06:33,759 --> 00:06:36,720 epidemic we have also seen that public 181 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,319 figures have 182 00:06:38,319 --> 00:06:40,880 sometimes um you know wittingly or 183 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:42,080 unwittingly 184 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,479 provided incorrect information to the 185 00:06:44,479 --> 00:06:45,360 public 186 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,120 and we can mention you know the former 187 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:48,800 president donald trump and 188 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,039 and and his advice to general 189 00:06:51,039 --> 00:06:53,520 populations on how to treat kovite 19 190 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,520 which was actually incorrect 191 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:57,919 um or even sometimes i think mainstream 192 00:06:57,919 --> 00:06:58,800 media 193 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,240 um have some in some cases struggled a 194 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:02,880 bit 195 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,160 with reporting on on the vaccination for 196 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,720 example in slovakia we had a case where 197 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,440 basically on a prime time tv at 8 00 p.m 198 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:12,479 when you know 199 00:07:12,479 --> 00:07:15,599 um the the whole let's say nation 200 00:07:15,599 --> 00:07:18,639 watches tv in the evening we had this 201 00:07:18,639 --> 00:07:20,479 one case of a woman dying 202 00:07:20,479 --> 00:07:23,520 uh shortly after receiving jeb um 203 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,560 from astrazeneca vaccine and um 204 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,520 this report basically made a direct made 205 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:30,160 a direct 206 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,599 link between this jab and between um 207 00:07:33,599 --> 00:07:36,639 the resulting death of of this lady 208 00:07:36,639 --> 00:07:38,400 later on it was discovered that the 209 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,560 death was not related to the vaccine 210 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,800 and that also you know the reporter who 211 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:44,400 was who was basically 212 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,280 responsible for producing the story was 213 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,360 her relative so there was obviously some 214 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,520 kind of a bias involved as well 215 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,520 but you know the damage has been done 216 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,360 and then when you have these kind of 217 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,520 stories promulgated in the information 218 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:58,319 space 219 00:07:58,319 --> 00:08:01,199 it's very difficult for um for anybody 220 00:08:01,199 --> 00:08:02,800 to really navigate 221 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,520 what is true and what isn't true anymore 222 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:05,840 so 223 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,400 right you know i'd love to bring in 224 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:09,199 melinda 225 00:08:09,199 --> 00:08:12,160 in geneva who has kind of this global 226 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:13,039 overview 227 00:08:13,039 --> 00:08:14,960 because you're seeing yeah that it's not 228 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:16,319 just um 229 00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:19,360 it's not even just yeah online or public 230 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:20,960 figures there's also this 231 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,080 world of offline and impenetrable 232 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,080 networks of disinformation being spread 233 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,599 yeah all right thank you thank you julia 234 00:08:31,599 --> 00:08:34,320 and i completely agree with the the 235 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,360 um things that miroslava had mentioned 236 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,120 as well that it's a pretty complicated 237 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:40,000 issue particularly when 238 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,519 it comes to vaccines we've always known 239 00:08:43,519 --> 00:08:44,000 that 240 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,080 communicating vaccines even during 241 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:47,839 non-emergencies and rolling out new 242 00:08:47,839 --> 00:08:49,760 vaccines can introduce a lot of 243 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:51,600 concerns and questions and valid 244 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,760 questions on the part of a population 245 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,399 but now during covert 19 when you pull 246 00:08:56,399 --> 00:08:57,200 in the mix 247 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,240 of changing science um 248 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,240 eminent threat to some individual's 249 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:03,440 concern 250 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,360 and things are just changing so there's 251 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,200 a lot of uncertainty 252 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,600 people have questions and concerns so 253 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:10,800 this is sort of a right 254 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,839 field for miss and disinformation and 255 00:09:13,839 --> 00:09:15,920 i'm really excited to see that we have a 256 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:16,480 session 257 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,880 on uh focused on infodemex this is 258 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:20,000 something that the world health 259 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:20,800 organization 260 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,519 has really uh pushed the envelope on we 261 00:09:23,519 --> 00:09:25,680 started an infodemics management 262 00:09:25,680 --> 00:09:28,320 pillar as part of the covid19 response 263 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,000 at the very beginning within the first 264 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,320 month of the response in 2020 265 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,560 so this has been an area of focus for us 266 00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:36,399 so we've been trying to track 267 00:09:36,399 --> 00:09:38,560 misinformation and disinformation and 268 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:41,040 really learn more about how to respond 269 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:41,839 to that 270 00:09:41,839 --> 00:09:44,320 in order to address people's concerns 271 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:45,120 what we see 272 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,760 a lot when it comes to disinformation is 273 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:48,480 or 274 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,240 during any emergency it's essentially 275 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,000 that people will sort of revert back 276 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,920 to the information sources that they 277 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,000 trust those may be individuals they may 278 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:57,440 be 279 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,680 mass media traditional media they may be 280 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:00,800 social media 281 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:02,480 and then i think what we found too 282 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,440 during coven 19 and particularly as 283 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,120 countries begin to do lockdowns too 284 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:08,480 people were turning a little bit more 285 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:09,760 towards social media 286 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,200 and as people were uncertain and 287 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,040 uh more stressed because of the 288 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,120 situation of kokod 19 289 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,040 they sought more information to relieve 290 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:20,640 that stress and yet what we 291 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,640 think and what studies are being 292 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:23,920 beginning to show is that actually 293 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:24,640 caused 294 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,079 more stress because there were more 295 00:10:26,079 --> 00:10:27,519 confusions particularly when they were 296 00:10:27,519 --> 00:10:29,040 trying to seek information 297 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,760 with online sources so which is doing 298 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:33,519 quite a bit of work around this to 299 00:10:33,519 --> 00:10:35,920 to figure out more about how to track 300 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:37,920 misinformation disinformation 301 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,040 uh learn more about how we um combat 302 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:42,959 that and how we can respond to that 303 00:10:42,959 --> 00:10:45,839 to decrease that that conversation 304 00:10:45,839 --> 00:10:46,640 online 305 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:48,320 and how to pre-bunk how to get 306 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,079 information good information 307 00:10:50,079 --> 00:10:53,440 out before disinformation in this 308 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,160 information has a chance to really grow 309 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,720 within the information ecosphere so a 310 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:00,640 lot a lot of work going on around this 311 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:01,040 and 312 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:02,320 and i'm glad we're talking about 313 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,240 vaccines today this is a 314 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:05,920 you know the most important issue right 315 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:07,839 now but just to say too we've been 316 00:11:07,839 --> 00:11:10,079 tracking miss and disinformation just in 317 00:11:10,079 --> 00:11:12,720 the copa 19 response too in terms of 318 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,600 uh cures or prevention methods uh so 319 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:16,800 this has been something we've been doing 320 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:18,959 again for about 18 months and 321 00:11:18,959 --> 00:11:20,240 we're learning quite a bit and i can 322 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:21,440 talk maybe a little bit later in the 323 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,279 program about what the future holds 324 00:11:23,279 --> 00:11:26,480 for who and empowered thank you melinda 325 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,320 and harry can you give us the view from 326 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,800 london 327 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:37,360 yes of course um i think it's um 328 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:39,920 important to sort of draw out a couple 329 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,560 of the things that uh my esteemed 330 00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:45,440 fellow panelists mentioned and in 331 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:46,959 particular it's this this underlying 332 00:11:46,959 --> 00:11:47,839 issue of of 333 00:11:47,839 --> 00:11:50,480 trust and i think it's important to 334 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:51,680 acknowledge 335 00:11:51,680 --> 00:11:56,320 um that disinformation doesn't create 336 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,760 create divisions or create 337 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,240 these kind of beliefs but what it does 338 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,240 is land an environment where it 339 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:06,399 exacerbates them and it really 340 00:12:06,399 --> 00:12:07,600 different actors with different 341 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,680 motivations really 342 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:12,959 try to exploit that for for their own 343 00:12:12,959 --> 00:12:14,240 purposes 344 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,959 and when we're looking at the issue here 345 00:12:16,959 --> 00:12:17,760 i think 346 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:19,680 you know it does come down to trust but 347 00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:21,279 we need to disaggregate 348 00:12:21,279 --> 00:12:24,480 exactly what that trust is in 349 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,920 trust in this context is not just about 350 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,600 trust in the product i.e the vaccine 351 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:33,600 but it's also very much about trust in 352 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,920 the institutions that are developing 353 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,600 supplying and administering 354 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,279 the vaccine and belief that those 355 00:12:41,279 --> 00:12:42,639 institutions have 356 00:12:42,639 --> 00:12:45,200 um public interest and interest of 357 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:46,560 different groups 358 00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:49,360 at heart and of course this is all 359 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,279 happening in a context that i know 360 00:12:51,279 --> 00:12:53,760 uh globsex discussed at length in 361 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,240 previous years which is a general trend 362 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:57,839 of declining trust 363 00:12:57,839 --> 00:13:00,240 uh in in government institutions uh 364 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:01,440 worldwide and 365 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,200 that's sort of widely highlighted in a 366 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:04,959 number of surveys but notably of course 367 00:13:04,959 --> 00:13:06,880 the edelman trust barometer 368 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,760 and so we need to make sure that we are 369 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:10,480 working 370 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,440 in a way that um understands exactly how 371 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,680 we can overcome those barriers with 372 00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:17,440 different groups 373 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,519 and i think about the challenge here as 374 00:13:19,519 --> 00:13:20,880 being one of 375 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,160 uh supply and demand uh for 376 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,440 accurate information and when it comes 377 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,600 to how we use strategic communications 378 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,519 part of what we need to do is to 379 00:13:31,519 --> 00:13:33,200 actually create demand 380 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,040 for accurate information and there are a 381 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,079 number of campaigns and activities that 382 00:13:38,079 --> 00:13:40,399 the uk has has developed and worked on 383 00:13:40,399 --> 00:13:42,160 with our partners to 384 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,079 help uh nudge um 385 00:13:46,079 --> 00:13:48,800 populations to seek out accurate 386 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,880 information but also to be able to 387 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:51,760 detect 388 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,040 inaccurate uh information um and then of 389 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:56,800 course on the supply side 390 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,760 um it's a case of ensuring that accurate 391 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,839 information is brought to those 392 00:14:01,839 --> 00:14:02,800 audiences 393 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:04,800 in a way that they find trustful 394 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:06,800 domestically in the uk 395 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,000 uh we've uh we're lucky enough to enjoy 396 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,240 high levels of vaccine confidence 397 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,800 overall with over 70 percent 398 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,519 of the uk population um saying they 399 00:14:17,519 --> 00:14:17,920 would 400 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:19,920 accept the vaccine and of course when 401 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:21,440 you look at how the 402 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,920 uh the the vaccine hesitant population 403 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:25,360 actually breaks out according to 404 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,199 different demographic categories you'll 405 00:14:27,199 --> 00:14:28,160 find that that's 406 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,720 significantly higher in certain um in 407 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:31,600 certain groups 408 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,440 there's a case of finding the trusted 409 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,920 messengers and that we can that we can 410 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,839 bring them accurate information 411 00:14:37,839 --> 00:14:41,279 uh with um so the view from the uk 412 00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:43,360 domestically i think is that you know we 413 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,040 we um 414 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:46,800 are lucky enough to enjoy relatively 415 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,639 overall high levels of vaccine 416 00:14:48,639 --> 00:14:50,560 confidence and we're working to 417 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,199 find the best way to uh encourage 418 00:14:53,199 --> 00:14:55,040 confidence among those uh 419 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,880 other groups whilst also recognizing 420 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:00,480 that we can work with our partners 421 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,000 around the world to 422 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,160 use strategic communications to boost 423 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:05,839 vaccine confidence in 424 00:15:05,839 --> 00:15:08,720 a number of different ways um including 425 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:10,079 through working with the world health 426 00:15:10,079 --> 00:15:11,760 organization 427 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:13,760 and henry you mentioned trusted 428 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:15,360 messengers and i'm curious 429 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,079 where where you've seen the most success 430 00:15:18,079 --> 00:15:18,480 um 431 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,160 like i remember there was a great 432 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,639 campaign was it elton john 433 00:15:22,639 --> 00:15:25,279 you had advocating for for getting the 434 00:15:25,279 --> 00:15:26,160 job and 435 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,720 you you've kind of drawn on yeah to 436 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,160 everything from celebrities 437 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,240 to to obviously yeah other public 438 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,079 leaders so i'm curious 439 00:15:34,079 --> 00:15:37,040 um where you've what you've seen are 440 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,480 particularly successful campaigns from 441 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,759 messengers yeah yeah yeah sure 442 00:15:43,759 --> 00:15:45,519 no celebrities are great and 443 00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:47,040 particularly when you're thinking about 444 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:48,560 you know appealing to 445 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,839 um to finding individuals that resonate 446 00:15:51,839 --> 00:15:53,680 with specific audiences and they have 447 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:54,000 quite 448 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,639 broad appeal um and when we think about 449 00:15:56,639 --> 00:15:58,480 youth audiences of course it's a great 450 00:15:58,480 --> 00:15:59,920 way to engage them because 451 00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:01,519 you know they're not going to be 452 00:16:01,519 --> 00:16:03,360 necessarily listening to mainstream news 453 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:04,320 and they don't want to hear from 454 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,399 politicians and so you can find people 455 00:16:06,399 --> 00:16:08,240 that you know sports stars musicians 456 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:09,279 that they really 457 00:16:09,279 --> 00:16:11,120 uh that they already follow on social 458 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:12,320 media and they're going to 459 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,399 they're going to pick up that content 460 00:16:14,399 --> 00:16:15,759 just through their routine 461 00:16:15,759 --> 00:16:18,560 sort of um information consumption 462 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:19,519 activity 463 00:16:19,519 --> 00:16:21,440 but i think the most important ones 464 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,279 aren't the aren't the high profile ones 465 00:16:23,279 --> 00:16:25,040 and it's actually bringing the messaging 466 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:25,600 down 467 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,880 um to the uh to as local level 468 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,959 as possible and finding individuals that 469 00:16:30,959 --> 00:16:31,920 are influential 470 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,320 influential with specific communities 471 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,000 like uh religious leaders 472 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,480 uh health professionals um so just 473 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,040 anecdotally as i um 474 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,519 walk out of my stairwell in my building 475 00:16:43,519 --> 00:16:45,519 in the morning and i live in a central 476 00:16:45,519 --> 00:16:46,399 area of london 477 00:16:46,399 --> 00:16:48,560 very diverse communities and so there's 478 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:49,600 an image of 479 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:51,440 an imam uh who works in the local 480 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,000 community uh talking uh about his 481 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,160 confidence in the vaccine uh on a poster 482 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:57,680 in the stairwell and it's you know 483 00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,519 bringing these very local voices that 484 00:16:59,519 --> 00:17:01,759 are recognized in small communities 485 00:17:01,759 --> 00:17:04,559 um to the fore uh that is essential to 486 00:17:04,559 --> 00:17:06,319 build trust 487 00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:08,319 i imagine that's a challenge for an 488 00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:10,559 organization like the who that's working 489 00:17:10,559 --> 00:17:11,760 globally like 490 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,160 when just covering this issue over a 491 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,160 decade you see how 492 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,000 even making generalizations about 493 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:19,760 vaccine hesitancy in a country are 494 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:20,959 difficult because 495 00:17:20,959 --> 00:17:24,400 it's so these these um yeah pockets of 496 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,160 refusal tend to be 497 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,200 pockets like extremely local and um with 498 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,039 it with very specific 499 00:17:31,039 --> 00:17:34,960 um community-based concerns 500 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,679 no yeah that's true i mean i think uh 501 00:17:39,679 --> 00:17:41,520 from the world health organization at 502 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,760 the the global level 503 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:45,679 every time we communicate anything we 504 00:17:45,679 --> 00:17:47,200 have to think who are we communicating 505 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:47,520 to 506 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,160 now is it the 15 year old in kenya is it 507 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:50,960 the 508 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,200 you know 75 year old grandmother in 509 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:54,320 costa rica 510 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,640 um we have a huge audience and so it 511 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:57,919 does um 512 00:17:57,919 --> 00:17:59,360 and i think miroslava mentioned this 513 00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:01,120 earlier too just 514 00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:03,760 vaccine hesitancy in particular is a 515 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:05,440 very very nuanced 516 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,679 issue it's it's the somebody's 517 00:18:07,679 --> 00:18:09,120 questioning the vaccine could be very 518 00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:09,919 valid 519 00:18:09,919 --> 00:18:11,280 um i think a lot of what we're seeing 520 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,080 actually in in europe right now 521 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:15,679 isn't so much people questioning the 522 00:18:15,679 --> 00:18:17,760 vaccine although there is some of that 523 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,240 uh it's people's ease of access to get 524 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:20,960 to the back 525 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:22,799 get vaccine it's not as easy in some 526 00:18:22,799 --> 00:18:25,039 locations to get it as it is others 527 00:18:25,039 --> 00:18:27,760 um but just to touch on what henry was 528 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,679 mentioning in terms of trusted 529 00:18:29,679 --> 00:18:31,679 sources of information this is something 530 00:18:31,679 --> 00:18:33,760 that the who has been working on and 531 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,840 even prior to coping 19 532 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,799 we started a network called the who 533 00:18:38,799 --> 00:18:40,720 information network for epidemics 534 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,600 and the sole purpose of this network we 535 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:44,720 call it epi win 536 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,720 was to be able to reach out through 537 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:48,720 trusted sources of information 538 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,760 and we really are targeting three 539 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,480 partner networks one is youth to reach 540 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,080 out to this very unique population 541 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,640 it's critically important now uh during 542 00:18:58,640 --> 00:18:59,600 vaccine because 543 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,520 with the vaccine rollout of coba 19 544 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,120 we're we're targeting 545 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:05,600 populations that aren't usually targeted 546 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:07,520 for vaccines so it's a unique situation 547 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,200 in that respect 548 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,600 we also are working through faith 549 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:13,280 organizations as well 550 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,039 and working side by side with them we've 551 00:19:15,039 --> 00:19:16,720 done some very exciting initiatives 552 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:17,440 where we've 553 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,400 co-written guidance together with faith 554 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,720 organizations to better target 555 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:24,960 their trusted constituents um through 556 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:26,240 these methods and we work 557 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:27,679 of course all over the world so very 558 00:19:27,679 --> 00:19:29,360 very different circumstances and 559 00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:31,440 different countries and and and 560 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:32,720 communities as well 561 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:33,919 and we're also working through the 562 00:19:33,919 --> 00:19:35,600 business sector because we've known from 563 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,520 the past as henry indicated 564 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:39,840 through and adam and the barometer trust 565 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:40,559 that that 566 00:19:40,559 --> 00:19:42,000 oftentimes people really trust 567 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,760 information that are coming from their 568 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:45,919 employer networks as well so we've tried 569 00:19:45,919 --> 00:19:47,200 to work through those 570 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,320 mechanisms as well um in terms of choice 571 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:51,200 of vaccine 572 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,480 we're seeing that globally and also in 573 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:55,600 europe too 574 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,799 a female population is often 575 00:19:58,799 --> 00:20:00,559 a little bit more hesitant than male 576 00:20:00,559 --> 00:20:02,000 population so we're trying to 577 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,039 kind of work around that issue as well 578 00:20:05,039 --> 00:20:08,640 and um yeah i think at this point it's 579 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,240 we're beyond the global messaging on 580 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,240 this everything has to become much much 581 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:13,360 more nuanced 582 00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:15,440 and we're really targeting efforts 583 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,200 around community engagement and 584 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,600 empowerment community-led initiatives 585 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:21,440 to reach out to individuals to have 586 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,360 those individual conversations so that 587 00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:24,159 people can 588 00:20:24,159 --> 00:20:26,640 truly get their very valid questions 589 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,000 answered through trusted 590 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:29,840 trusted networks and that can often be 591 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,400 the healthcare providers as well 592 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,159 wonderful and i want to turn to 593 00:20:34,159 --> 00:20:35,600 solutions in a moment but 594 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,799 first um we have some research from 595 00:20:38,799 --> 00:20:40,080 miroslava 596 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,360 in a poll um so what proportion can 597 00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:45,440 can can we bring up the poll actually so 598 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,679 everyone can see it 599 00:20:47,679 --> 00:20:49,280 there we go so what proportion of the 600 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,200 adult population across central and 601 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:52,480 eastern europe 602 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,400 believe that covid is a planned 603 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,400 operation or conspiracy 604 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,400 by the hidden forces and elites to 605 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,679 control the population 606 00:21:01,679 --> 00:21:05,120 if everyone could submit an answer 8 607 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:10,239 18 28 38 608 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,080 uh how long do we usually give for these 609 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:14,559 polls 610 00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:16,480 of our precious time think it's out 611 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,280 there oh there we go okay 612 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:23,120 okay interesting 613 00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:26,000 so i can say that people are a bit more 614 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:26,880 optimistic 615 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,799 than they should be okay so it's not 18 616 00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:34,400 percent across cee is actually 28 617 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,919 across cee so it's fairly fairly 618 00:21:37,919 --> 00:21:40,880 large proportion of the population and 619 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:41,679 um 620 00:21:41,679 --> 00:21:43,919 the reason why we looked at this uh 621 00:21:43,919 --> 00:21:46,400 so-called plandemic conspiracy theory is 622 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:47,280 because 623 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,240 um we wanted to by you know observing 624 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,240 what's going on on social media because 625 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:53,840 you know plundering and 626 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,200 this kind of um let's say 627 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,600 what should be fringe conspiracy 628 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:00,720 theories are 629 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,200 not generally seen on mainstream media 630 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,720 and most of the ce 631 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,000 countries um so this is something that's 632 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,760 definitely being 633 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,280 perpetuated online and we just wanted to 634 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,000 kind of test the impact of the you know 635 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,240 digital environment on on the way we 636 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,480 form our opinions about 637 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,799 about the pandemic and obviously again 638 00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:23,600 this is a 639 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,559 average number for a whole cee so it's 640 00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:28,320 worse in some countries and 641 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,880 and better in some countries but it just 642 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:32,960 goes to show you the power that these 643 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:33,679 types of 644 00:22:33,679 --> 00:22:37,120 um conspiracy theories have and it's 645 00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:38,960 quite also interesting that 646 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,240 you see this perpetuation of 647 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,640 disinformation narratives about covet 19 648 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:45,760 globally so 649 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,919 whereas before you know the digital 650 00:22:47,919 --> 00:22:48,880 revolution 651 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,640 conspiracy theories were always kind of 652 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,880 part of our lives let's not pretend that 653 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,880 it was ever any different 654 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,559 but what we see right now is this 655 00:22:56,559 --> 00:22:58,640 perpetuation of conspiracy theories 656 00:22:58,640 --> 00:22:59,200 which are 657 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,320 truly global so um something that alex 658 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,159 jones from infowars was 659 00:23:04,159 --> 00:23:07,840 adamantly you know promoting in the u.s 660 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:09,919 was professionally voiced over into 661 00:23:09,919 --> 00:23:10,559 slovak 662 00:23:10,559 --> 00:23:13,600 a very professional actor um yes very 663 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,600 nicely sounding voice-over 664 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,000 and it was a video shared on facebook 665 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,559 which was shared 16 000 times which by 666 00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:22,159 slovak standards is like 667 00:23:22,159 --> 00:23:25,120 extremely large number and obviously um 668 00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:26,320 facebook 669 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,799 did in cooperation with independent fact 670 00:23:28,799 --> 00:23:29,600 checkers 671 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,840 fact checked this video and it always 672 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,360 came with this little disclaimer you 673 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:35,200 know that the information in this video 674 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,120 is factually incorrect but that didn't 675 00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:37,760 really 676 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,320 stop the promotion of the video and so 677 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:41,200 then you see 678 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,760 all these um basically perpetuation of 679 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,240 conspiracy theories from all kinds of 680 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:46,960 you know 681 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,320 corners of the world and they influence 682 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,799 very specific local communities which 683 00:23:52,799 --> 00:23:53,919 previously they 684 00:23:53,919 --> 00:23:55,679 wouldn't actually be able wouldn't 685 00:23:55,679 --> 00:23:57,360 actually be able to reach so 686 00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:00,400 i just wanted to also by showing this 687 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,400 poll um demonstrate um the power 688 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,240 of this information and the power of 689 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,240 conspiracy theories and 690 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,279 obviously the issues that this poses to 691 00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:13,520 vaccination efforts and 692 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,640 to just overcoming the pandemic and we 693 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,000 have a question from the audience 694 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,440 that's that's related um so so 695 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,120 someone oh we have another question from 696 00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:25,200 the audience okay we'll do the first 697 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:26,000 question 698 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,159 so what are some of the dividing lines 699 00:24:28,159 --> 00:24:30,000 between those who are more 700 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,120 and less prone to believing or to being 701 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:35,520 disinformed and misinformed 702 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,600 um we've talked about yeah a lot of the 703 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,120 things that we're drawing in are these 704 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:40,400 longer term 705 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,240 challenges like trust in government 706 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,159 maybe educational gaps 707 00:24:44,159 --> 00:24:45,600 and i'm wondering if yeah what we're 708 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,600 learning now in the pandemic 709 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,960 um yeah where where these dividing lines 710 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:52,080 might fall 711 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,159 that's a very good question and again 712 00:24:54,159 --> 00:24:57,840 it's not as easy as it seems like 713 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,080 intuitively we would say that you know 714 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,320 it's always people with lower education 715 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:03,279 who believe in 716 00:25:03,279 --> 00:25:06,320 conspiracy theories more or um 717 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,720 that it's people in rural areas but this 718 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:10,640 isn't always the case so 719 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,480 when we look at different countries the 720 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:14,320 picture is quite different or sometimes 721 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,240 it's the younger generation who is more 722 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,080 prone than the older generation which 723 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,720 also seems kind of counterintuitive 724 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,720 so how we were talking melinda and henry 725 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:25,200 both 726 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,279 quite correctly pointing out that 727 00:25:27,279 --> 00:25:29,279 strategy communication requires 728 00:25:29,279 --> 00:25:31,760 tailoring that you need to tailor 729 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,520 specific message to 730 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,200 the audience that you're targeting 731 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:36,799 because that will resonate 732 00:25:36,799 --> 00:25:40,000 and in similar way this information 733 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,760 works too so it's sort of like 734 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:43,440 you know the dark side of the 735 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:44,799 information spectrum 736 00:25:44,799 --> 00:25:48,080 so certain um types of disinformation or 737 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,400 certain types of conspiracy theories 738 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,200 resonate among different sections of the 739 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:54,480 population more 740 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,400 and we know many examples of this and 741 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,039 often as henry pointed out they 742 00:25:59,039 --> 00:26:01,919 feed into pre-existing fears or even 743 00:26:01,919 --> 00:26:03,679 legitimate grievances 744 00:26:03,679 --> 00:26:07,120 so for example um you know 745 00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:08,960 the conspiracy theory that has been 746 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,720 spread in the past about 747 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,000 about the hiv virus uh that you know um 748 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,679 there was a conspiracy theory that 749 00:26:15,679 --> 00:26:16,640 basically 750 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,600 uh it has been invented you know um this 751 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,039 has been spread by uh 752 00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:24,080 by pro-russian actors that that this um 753 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,960 hiv virus was produced by the us 754 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,279 you know and so in some parts of of 755 00:26:29,279 --> 00:26:31,279 africa these types of conspiracy 756 00:26:31,279 --> 00:26:32,000 theories 757 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,080 can result can resonate for for 758 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,679 different reasons you know or for 759 00:26:35,679 --> 00:26:36,799 example 760 00:26:36,799 --> 00:26:38,720 conspiracy or disinformation about 761 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:39,840 migration 762 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,880 resonates strongly in hungary because of 763 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,440 you know the current regime because of 764 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,919 the migration crisis that has been blown 765 00:26:47,919 --> 00:26:49,120 out of proportion 766 00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:51,520 but when you look at this information 767 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,840 about kovid 19 in hungary 768 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,240 actually you will find that hungary is 769 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:57,600 one one of the more 770 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,760 resistant countries towards this type of 771 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,000 misinformation and you will see that 772 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,240 other countries such as in the western 773 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,640 balkans or even in slovakia 774 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,360 is much more receptive to to these types 775 00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:10,400 of 776 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,640 conspiracy theories and yes it has got 777 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,080 to do a lot with 778 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,600 with trust in institutions or mistrust 779 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,159 in in government or or in mainstream 780 00:27:20,159 --> 00:27:21,039 media 781 00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:24,480 so it depends and one dividing line that 782 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:25,919 melinda brought up is the 783 00:27:25,919 --> 00:27:28,399 the gender dividing line which i didn't 784 00:27:28,399 --> 00:27:29,360 realize was a 785 00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:32,320 it sounds like it's a global issue that 786 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:33,679 that women 787 00:27:33,679 --> 00:27:36,240 are more hesitant than men and do we 788 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,559 understand 789 00:27:38,559 --> 00:27:41,840 yeah what do we understand about that 790 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:43,520 i don't think we quite understand 791 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,360 everything about that and it's just a 792 00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:47,200 slight trend that we're seeing that i 793 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:47,679 think is 794 00:27:47,679 --> 00:27:50,799 sort of surprising a lot of us um 795 00:27:50,799 --> 00:27:52,799 potentially maybe henry knows more about 796 00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:55,120 the situation in the uk 797 00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:56,960 um but i do want to kind of bridge off 798 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,840 of what miroslava was saying in terms of 799 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,039 this divide and i think a lot of our gut 800 00:28:03,039 --> 00:28:05,200 reactions before this would have been 801 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,440 um again trust in government trust in 802 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,120 leaders that's what we've sort of always 803 00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:11,039 known during an emergency 804 00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:12,960 you can't build trust in the middle of 805 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,960 an emergency it has to be the foundation 806 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:16,559 from which you start prior to an 807 00:28:16,559 --> 00:28:17,760 emergency 808 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,039 um so if there was a foundation of maybe 809 00:28:21,039 --> 00:28:22,799 not even lack of trust in the government 810 00:28:22,799 --> 00:28:25,039 but just maybe a bad experience with the 811 00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:26,720 public health system 812 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,840 that's going to affect people's 813 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,159 perception um 814 00:28:30,159 --> 00:28:32,559 on whether or not you know responders 815 00:28:32,559 --> 00:28:34,640 have their best interests in mind 816 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,200 have the capability to manage this can 817 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:37,919 get their 818 00:28:37,919 --> 00:28:39,919 questions answered answered and and 819 00:28:39,919 --> 00:28:41,520 really understand the lives in which 820 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:42,080 people 821 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,399 are leading and this is um common to 822 00:28:44,399 --> 00:28:46,320 focus more now than ever 823 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,320 i mean we've seen you know countries 824 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,480 that have never necessarily 825 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,840 had to rely on community mechanisms for 826 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,760 engagement strategies really have to do 827 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,520 this now and then those 828 00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,760 those uh those mechanisms may not have 829 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,679 been in place in some western european 830 00:29:01,679 --> 00:29:02,720 countries 831 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,200 or in higher income countries and yet 832 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,039 they really needed them during 833 00:29:07,039 --> 00:29:10,159 during um during this response 834 00:29:10,159 --> 00:29:12,159 uh also i think one of the trends we're 835 00:29:12,159 --> 00:29:13,679 starting to pick up is that 836 00:29:13,679 --> 00:29:16,080 individuals that rely on information 837 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,840 through more maybe more traditional 838 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:18,799 media 839 00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:22,080 um maybe televised or written 840 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,360 media tend to not be so 841 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,760 susceptible to disinformation because 842 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,039 there's an opportunity 843 00:29:29,039 --> 00:29:30,640 to have more of a discourse in those 844 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,120 types of media so they can hear the pros 845 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,760 the cons the arguments for and against 846 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,240 whereas potentially with social media 847 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,399 there's just little sort of snippets of 848 00:29:40,399 --> 00:29:42,080 information and not as much of a chance 849 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,120 to sort of really 850 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,320 um dissect an issue so we're 851 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:47,760 tending it we're beginning to see that 852 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,840 kind of trend as well so where people 853 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,200 seek their information could really have 854 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:52,399 a factor on whether or not they're 855 00:29:52,399 --> 00:29:53,520 susceptible 856 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,799 to to disinformation 857 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,279 great and i have a question from the 858 00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:00,000 audience 859 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,679 um through the app and by the way if 860 00:30:01,679 --> 00:30:04,080 anyone in the room has questions please 861 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,200 feel free to to go to the 862 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,399 mic in the corner here so so one that i 863 00:30:10,399 --> 00:30:11,840 wanted to direct at 864 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,240 henry how do you see the responsibility 865 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:15,840 of vaccine producers 866 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,159 and the medical establishment more 867 00:30:18,159 --> 00:30:20,240 widely for communicating to the public 868 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,840 when governments are mistrusted 869 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,120 yeah that's an excellent question um and 870 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:29,679 of course 871 00:30:29,679 --> 00:30:33,279 um vaccine producers tend to be global 872 00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:34,799 pharmaceutical companies they have quite 873 00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:35,279 large 874 00:30:35,279 --> 00:30:37,520 marketing budgets i think you know um 875 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:38,880 it's in their interest to 876 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,799 uh to actually use that to promote the 877 00:30:40,799 --> 00:30:42,640 vaccine um 878 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,559 to um to uh patients and customers 879 00:30:46,559 --> 00:30:50,000 um and and within that to identify 880 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,279 um exactly um what kind of barriers 881 00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:54,559 there might be to 882 00:30:54,559 --> 00:30:57,600 uh to promoting the vaccine uh to them 883 00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,840 i think in doing that process though i 884 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:01,760 think um and this is something not just 885 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:02,960 for the vaccine 886 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,279 produces but for us more generally when 887 00:31:05,279 --> 00:31:06,799 we think about public health 888 00:31:06,799 --> 00:31:09,840 as a national priority at the moment is 889 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,360 is the need to prioritize these 890 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:12,399 different audiences 891 00:31:12,399 --> 00:31:14,240 and the last question about dividing 892 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,159 lines i thought was you know a very good 893 00:31:16,159 --> 00:31:17,600 one because it really got to the heart 894 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:18,000 of what 895 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,440 are the different motivations that 896 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,200 people have with different reasons 897 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,840 that people have for being hesitant and 898 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:24,640 melinda sort of 899 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,760 picked out a really good range of them 900 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:28,480 and you know 901 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,240 at one end you have people yes that 902 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,399 believe in conspiracy theories 903 00:31:32,399 --> 00:31:35,519 um and you know that correlates with um 904 00:31:35,519 --> 00:31:37,600 in in our research looking at the uk 905 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,039 when we've tried to understand 906 00:31:39,039 --> 00:31:40,960 where disinformation lands and why it 907 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,120 gets traction we see that sort of the 908 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:44,960 propensity to believe conspiracy 909 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:46,000 theories actually 910 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:47,840 correlates with the political extremes 911 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:49,760 and they're actually very hard audiences 912 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:50,880 to win over 913 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,039 um but but there's a spectrum and a 914 00:31:53,039 --> 00:31:55,039 range it's not that there is a line over 915 00:31:55,039 --> 00:31:56,720 which certainly someone doesn't want the 916 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,320 vaccine you know there are a range of 917 00:31:58,320 --> 00:31:59,039 different 918 00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:01,120 um different reasons that people are 919 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:02,240 hesitant and and 920 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,440 and you know uh in terms of reaching our 921 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:05,840 goal 922 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,000 in this instance which is vaccinating as 923 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:09,519 many of the population as 924 00:32:09,519 --> 00:32:13,200 possible in support of our pathway out 925 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:14,720 of the pandemic 926 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,799 we need to prioritize those audiences 927 00:32:16,799 --> 00:32:18,720 and understand exactly how we can win 928 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:19,440 over 929 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,440 most of them and recognize that some of 930 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,600 them will be unreconcilable 931 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,600 um and you know i think generally when 932 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,200 we've thought about disinformation in 933 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:28,000 other contexts 934 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,760 when we for example in the wake of the 935 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,600 salisbury attack when the uk was dealing 936 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,120 with a disinformation 937 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,760 attack from the russian state we 938 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:36,880 recognized that there were some 939 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:38,960 audiences in the uk for whom the russian 940 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,200 state's narrative about the events 941 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,440 um would always resonate and because 942 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:44,320 they had 943 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:45,840 because they inherently believe in these 944 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,600 kind of conspiracy uh 945 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,080 theories and uh what the important thing 946 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,120 was that those 947 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,200 uh narratives didn't break into the 948 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,039 mainstream and didn't start to influence 949 00:32:55,039 --> 00:32:56,240 and they stay in these 950 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,880 echo chambers at each end of the 951 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,240 political spectrum 952 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,559 and so recognizing which audiences we 953 00:33:02,559 --> 00:33:03,919 can actually 954 00:33:03,919 --> 00:33:06,399 inform and bring accurate information to 955 00:33:06,399 --> 00:33:07,200 i think is 956 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,279 is key and of course yes the vaccine 957 00:33:09,279 --> 00:33:10,399 producers play 958 00:33:10,399 --> 00:33:13,200 play a role in that that's a great point 959 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,519 and it's also such a dynamic environment 960 00:33:15,519 --> 00:33:17,840 um in the uk you're changing the 961 00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:19,360 guidance in which 962 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,120 and i guess in every country which 963 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,039 vaccines are coming online 964 00:33:23,039 --> 00:33:26,720 which are being used i know in the us 965 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,640 the vaccine vaccine hesitancy has 966 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,559 actually gotten better over time as more 967 00:33:30,559 --> 00:33:32,320 people are 968 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,399 being vaccinated and you know you talk 969 00:33:34,399 --> 00:33:36,559 to your friends and family and hear that 970 00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:37,919 maybe they didn't have a terrible 971 00:33:37,919 --> 00:33:40,480 experience and terrible side effects and 972 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,039 that increases your willingness to um to 973 00:33:43,039 --> 00:33:43,840 get the job 974 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,679 so yeah it's a it's a highly dynamic and 975 00:33:47,679 --> 00:33:49,840 interesting and challenging environment 976 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,279 so we have a question here from the 977 00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:52,480 audience please 978 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,399 um introduce yourself and state the 979 00:33:54,399 --> 00:33:56,240 question as a question 980 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,640 hi uh yes uh good morning i'm anja 981 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,399 nussbaum i'm a journalist for bloomberg 982 00:34:00,399 --> 00:34:01,600 news 983 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,159 and i have a question about the need to 984 00:34:04,159 --> 00:34:05,279 reconcile 985 00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:08,960 the legitimate um queries about the 986 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:09,599 origin 987 00:34:09,599 --> 00:34:11,839 the legitimate need to to to query about 988 00:34:11,839 --> 00:34:14,079 the origin of the virus 989 00:34:14,079 --> 00:34:15,839 and the need to fight conspiracy 990 00:34:15,839 --> 00:34:17,359 theories and what i mean is that 991 00:34:17,359 --> 00:34:19,280 last year a lot of us were very quick to 992 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,839 dismiss um 993 00:34:21,839 --> 00:34:24,079 the thesis about the origin of the virus 994 00:34:24,079 --> 00:34:25,599 coming from johann 995 00:34:25,599 --> 00:34:27,520 accidental non-accidental doesn't matter 996 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:28,879 but a lot of us were very quick to 997 00:34:28,879 --> 00:34:30,960 dismiss that because it was a theory 998 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:31,679 that was 999 00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:33,839 spread by donald trump basically and and 1000 00:34:33,839 --> 00:34:36,159 a certain part of the political spectrum 1001 00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:38,320 uh this year the this is being discussed 1002 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,079 again you know we're 1003 00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:42,000 seeing more and more uh questions from 1004 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,320 scientists about the origin of the virus 1005 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,918 and whether or not uh these um these 1006 00:34:47,918 --> 00:34:49,359 theories are true uh how do you 1007 00:34:49,359 --> 00:34:52,159 reconcile the need to investigate 1008 00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:54,480 uh and uh they need not to dismiss 1009 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,119 certain theories and they need to also 1010 00:34:57,119 --> 00:34:59,200 you know make sure that people don't 1011 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:00,480 don't go crazy over 1012 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,720 all the crazy theories the question 1013 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,520 yes absolutely great question i think 1014 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,119 the issue always is when 1015 00:35:09,119 --> 00:35:10,880 a legitimate question becomes 1016 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,480 politicized because 1017 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,560 this is exactly what would happen you 1018 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,079 know in the case of donald trump 1019 00:35:16,079 --> 00:35:18,160 it was so clear to everyone that there 1020 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,800 is an ulterior motive to this and then 1021 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:22,880 it becomes really difficult to take this 1022 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:24,400 notion seriously 1023 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,320 but i think the reconciling part um 1024 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,520 comes when we and this has been repeated 1025 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:32,800 so often during 1026 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,560 during the pandemic that i'm not going 1027 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,000 to say anything new 1028 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,160 but it's basically trusting the experts 1029 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,079 who are actually doing the research and 1030 00:35:40,079 --> 00:35:41,119 giving them 1031 00:35:41,119 --> 00:35:44,079 voice which is not politicized and 1032 00:35:44,079 --> 00:35:44,880 giving them 1033 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,280 the floor and the space to speak 1034 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,680 authoritatively on some of these things 1035 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,640 and also it's about not jumping to 1036 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,800 conclusions very quickly because i think 1037 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,040 it's okay to tell to your audience 1038 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,160 that this is you know one hypothesis 1039 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:02,400 and it's just one hypothesis which needs 1040 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,720 to be explored which needs to be checked 1041 00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:07,040 and then needs to be proven true or 1042 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:08,720 wrong essentially 1043 00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:11,040 but um there's big difference between 1044 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:12,880 when somebody just like 1045 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:14,960 throws around you know these notions 1046 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,119 without any kind of evidence 1047 00:36:17,119 --> 00:36:19,520 so i think it's about and this sort of 1048 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:20,640 fits into 1049 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,680 a broader issue of how we even how the 1050 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:24,400 media 1051 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,960 and how politicians and how public 1052 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,000 authorities 1053 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,720 communicate potentially very complex 1054 00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:31,760 issues 1055 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,040 to public audiences in an in an 1056 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,320 understandable 1057 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,000 manner essentially and it's very 1058 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,880 difficult so i understand like oh 1059 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:42,640 majority of stakeholders made some 1060 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:44,720 mistakes over the past you know 1061 00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:46,400 one and a half year in terms of 1062 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,240 communicating the pandemic because the 1063 00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:50,560 situation develops so rapidly 1064 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,920 that actually having safe knowledge of 1065 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:54,560 of 1066 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,240 what is actually going on is being 1067 00:36:56,240 --> 00:36:58,960 constantly changed and updated 1068 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,960 but again i think that needs to be 1069 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,119 communicated to the audiences as well 1070 00:37:03,119 --> 00:37:03,760 that 1071 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,400 okay this thing is new for all of us and 1072 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,000 we are still in the process 1073 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,359 of of finding out so if that is 1074 00:37:11,359 --> 00:37:15,280 you know um sort of communicated well 1075 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,520 then i think the audiences are able to 1076 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,040 understand it 1077 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,359 but people will always you know try to 1078 00:37:21,359 --> 00:37:23,520 use these things for their political and 1079 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:24,640 so 1080 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:26,480 i think from a journalist journalist 1081 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:27,839 perspective um 1082 00:37:27,839 --> 00:37:30,000 this this intellectual humility too at 1083 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,320 the beginning of the pandemic to say 1084 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,560 you know there are there is tremendous 1085 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,079 uncertainty about the efficacy 1086 00:37:36,079 --> 00:37:38,560 of face mass or about the origin of the 1087 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,400 virus and to not be 1088 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,440 too quick to be reactionary as well we 1089 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:44,160 only have 1090 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,160 four and a half minutes left and i did 1091 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:47,520 want to talk about 1092 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,079 solutions so i'm curious from your 1093 00:37:50,079 --> 00:37:51,839 various perspectives 1094 00:37:51,839 --> 00:37:53,440 we're obviously living through these 1095 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,920 policy experiments all over the world 1096 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,079 and whether you've seen particularly 1097 00:37:58,079 --> 00:37:59,520 effective 1098 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,560 methods for combating disinformation and 1099 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,400 this longer term and more challenging 1100 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,640 project of building trust 1101 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,160 and and education as well 1102 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,480 um maybe we could start with henry 1103 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,359 yeah sure i mean there's a lot of 1104 00:38:17,359 --> 00:38:18,800 different bits to that question and i'll 1105 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,040 try not to take up all the time um 1106 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,440 but i think i mean quickly from our 1107 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:24,160 perspective 1108 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,800 strategic communications is is is a key 1109 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:27,520 lever in 1110 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,320 uh in promoting vaccine confidence um 1111 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:31,760 and you know i touched earlier on the 1112 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:32,240 reason 1113 00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:33,359 on some of the things that make it 1114 00:38:33,359 --> 00:38:35,280 effective but in terms of 1115 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,680 um in terms of particularly effective 1116 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:39,599 activity that we've seen and 1117 00:38:39,599 --> 00:38:42,280 and support there's a um 1118 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:43,440 [Music] 1119 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,240 an app game called go viral which was 1120 00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:47,359 developed 1121 00:38:47,359 --> 00:38:49,200 in partnership with university of 1122 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:50,720 cambridge 1123 00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:54,640 that uses behavioral insights to 1124 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,598 to inoculate 1125 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,599 individuals against misinformation by 1126 00:39:01,599 --> 00:39:02,880 having them play the part 1127 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:04,400 of someone that is spreading false 1128 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,000 information online in 1129 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,640 in this simulation um and it's been 1130 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,040 proven that just one play of the game 1131 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,520 uh reduces uh the perceived uh 1132 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,520 reliability of fake news by an average 1133 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:16,800 of 21 1134 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,599 and the their their then immunity to uh 1135 00:39:19,599 --> 00:39:21,200 false information lasts up to three 1136 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:22,880 months so it's important to note that 1137 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:24,640 all of these behavioral interventions do 1138 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,560 have a sort of skill fade to the nudge 1139 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:27,359 that you've 1140 00:39:27,359 --> 00:39:28,800 uh you've had with them but yeah we've 1141 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:30,960 translated that into multiple languages 1142 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:31,599 and um 1143 00:39:31,599 --> 00:39:34,320 shared it with multiple partners and uh 1144 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:34,720 and 1145 00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:38,240 um yeah it's it's proven to have a 1146 00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:39,760 behavioral impact on them 1147 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,880 i think longer term uh the importance uh 1148 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:44,880 the important thing for for us and i 1149 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,640 think uh it's reflected by some of our 1150 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:47,440 allies 1151 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,680 is thinking about about three things and 1152 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,359 it's it's it's stuff that's reflected in 1153 00:39:51,359 --> 00:39:52,160 the uk's 1154 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,320 recent integrated review which is a refu 1155 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,079 review of security and defense but of 1156 00:39:56,079 --> 00:39:56,640 course 1157 00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,520 features uh health security uh more than 1158 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,119 previous reviews have them 1159 00:40:01,119 --> 00:40:04,160 uh all of uh all of uh our security 1160 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,000 priorities need to be based on 1161 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,520 uh on building resilience uh on on 1162 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,599 sharing and promoting our values and 1163 00:40:11,599 --> 00:40:13,359 then finally of course on international 1164 00:40:13,359 --> 00:40:14,480 cooperation with 1165 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,079 uh with other nations and and with 1166 00:40:16,079 --> 00:40:17,839 multilateral organizations and i think 1167 00:40:17,839 --> 00:40:18,640 those are 1168 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,240 those are the things that will help us 1169 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:21,599 build trust those are the things that 1170 00:40:21,599 --> 00:40:22,400 will help us 1171 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:23,920 uh through the pandemic and those are 1172 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:25,440 the things that will 1173 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,839 help us build back better as the world 1174 00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:34,640 and melinda um i'll echo 1175 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,480 some of what henry said too i think at 1176 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,000 least at the world health organization 1177 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,480 we are looking at ways to help countries 1178 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,560 and communities become more resilient 1179 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,720 for the next uh pandemic or next 1180 00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:46,319 emergency because there will be one 1181 00:40:46,319 --> 00:40:47,839 unfortunately 1182 00:40:47,839 --> 00:40:50,079 some of the things we're doing to help 1183 00:40:50,079 --> 00:40:51,440 countries really 1184 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,400 begin to regain more of that trust 1185 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:54,960 factor 1186 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,359 before the next emergencies we've 1187 00:40:57,359 --> 00:40:59,119 started a new platform it's a country 1188 00:40:59,119 --> 00:41:00,319 based tool called the 1189 00:41:00,319 --> 00:41:03,040 early ai supported response with social 1190 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:04,800 listening it enables countries to kind 1191 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,720 of pick up potential missing 1192 00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:07,599 disinformation 1193 00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:10,960 in their own information ecosystem 1194 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:12,560 in their country and it also allows them 1195 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,960 to triangulate other epidemiologic data 1196 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,560 to kind of really see what's going on in 1197 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:17,760 their own country 1198 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,359 we're supporting that we also have a 1199 00:41:19,359 --> 00:41:21,520 research agenda for epidemics so we can 1200 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:22,720 learn more about 1201 00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:25,599 the impact of the epidemic the spread of 1202 00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:26,319 information 1203 00:41:26,319 --> 00:41:28,720 and misinformation and really to learn 1204 00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:30,560 more about the tools and the mechanisms 1205 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,839 that we can employ that may 1206 00:41:32,839 --> 00:41:34,480 help uh decrease the amount of 1207 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,720 misinformation disinformation 1208 00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:38,319 and help to inoculate the population 1209 00:41:38,319 --> 00:41:39,760 against that too so these are some of 1210 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,280 the things we're looking forward to 1211 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,160 in the future and i guess what the other 1212 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:44,800 major 1213 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,480 theme here that we keep touching on is 1214 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,160 obviously at this this building 1215 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,880 trust in in populations and down to the 1216 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,800 level of specific communities 1217 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,359 so to wrap up could we talk a little bit 1218 00:41:55,359 --> 00:41:56,960 right about what government should be 1219 00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,240 doing now 1220 00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:01,119 um to prepare for the next one and this 1221 00:42:01,119 --> 00:42:01,920 is yes 1222 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,240 there was an audience member who had a 1223 00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:05,920 question along these lines in terms 1224 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,560 in terms of communications um what 1225 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:09,920 should we be doing now to prepare the 1226 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,800 public for the next pandemic 1227 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,480 so this is a tough one for some 1228 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:16,480 governments obviously the uk is doing 1229 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,319 really well so i think it's always good 1230 00:42:18,319 --> 00:42:20,240 to share best practice and and learn 1231 00:42:20,240 --> 00:42:22,079 from those who are really succeeding you 1232 00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:23,599 know because there are plenty of 1233 00:42:23,599 --> 00:42:25,680 countries also in ce who 1234 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,560 are struggling with this part and who 1235 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:30,560 are not being trusted 1236 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,599 by their constituents because um they 1237 00:42:33,599 --> 00:42:36,319 are considered to have you know dealt 1238 00:42:36,319 --> 00:42:38,160 with the second wave of the pandemic 1239 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:39,920 really poorly as we have now 1240 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,160 um we all know that the cee has been 1241 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:43,280 very much 1242 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,359 very badly affected by the second wave 1243 00:42:45,359 --> 00:42:46,800 of the pandemic so 1244 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,440 rebuilding trust in such an environment 1245 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,200 is extremely difficult 1246 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,440 but i do believe that we've mentioned it 1247 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:54,880 already efficient strategic 1248 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,200 communication is absolutely the key 1249 00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,640 but also um you know it's about creating 1250 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:01,920 really modern 1251 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,720 campaigns information campaigns which 1252 00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:05,760 could actually 1253 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,280 reach those who who need to who need to 1254 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,319 get vaccinated and this has proven to be 1255 00:43:12,319 --> 00:43:15,680 a problem in some countries um obviously 1256 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:17,520 the willingness to get vaccinated has 1257 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,359 increased so that's the good news 1258 00:43:19,359 --> 00:43:21,119 and there are also large bookies of 1259 00:43:21,119 --> 00:43:22,800 people who are undecided about 1260 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,079 vaccinations so 1261 00:43:24,079 --> 00:43:26,319 across eu there's like 20 of the 1262 00:43:26,319 --> 00:43:28,079 population so 1263 00:43:28,079 --> 00:43:31,119 if governments focus their efforts on on 1264 00:43:31,119 --> 00:43:31,839 actually these 1265 00:43:31,839 --> 00:43:35,280 undecided um undecided constituents 1266 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,400 then perhaps you know um that's one way 1267 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,000 of overcoming hopefully 1268 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,319 this one pandemic and in the long term 1269 00:43:42,319 --> 00:43:43,520 it's all about building 1270 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,359 efficient institutions but that's 1271 00:43:45,359 --> 00:43:47,599 obviously not something you can 1272 00:43:47,599 --> 00:43:49,920 you know change within half a year or a 1273 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:51,839 year that's definitely a long-term 1274 00:43:51,839 --> 00:43:52,800 project 1275 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:54,560 and the the other long-term project that 1276 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,319 i'm picking up on we need to clone 1277 00:43:56,319 --> 00:43:59,680 henry or send him to um yeah 1278 00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:01,760 these different places to replicate the 1279 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:03,440 uk experience 1280 00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,960 um no that that's really helpful 1281 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:08,560 was there anything that henry and 1282 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,839 melinda wanted to add 1283 00:44:11,839 --> 00:44:15,119 uh well yeah i mean um 1284 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,040 we do work internationally with a lot of 1285 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:18,800 our partners to help build strategic 1286 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:20,480 communications capability and i think 1287 00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,160 you know it's important to recognize 1288 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,359 that um that the uk is uh 1289 00:44:25,359 --> 00:44:27,520 very keen to make sure that we help as 1290 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,280 many of our partners as possible 1291 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:30,960 and just on that great point about you 1292 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:32,480 know what what prepares us for the next 1293 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,400 pandemic i think the way we make our way 1294 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,240 out of this pandemic 1295 00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:38,000 will build trust we should do it in a 1296 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:39,520 way that means that we 1297 00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,680 um build trust that means that the world 1298 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,760 will be more ready for the next one and 1299 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,920 of course you know sharing vaccines 1300 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:47,760 is is going to be a key part of that and 1301 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:49,599 that's why we were delighted that one of 1302 00:44:49,599 --> 00:44:51,839 the outcomes of the g7 1303 00:44:51,839 --> 00:44:54,720 summit uh earlier this week was that the 1304 00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:57,119 announcement of a billion vaccines to be 1305 00:44:57,119 --> 00:44:57,839 donated 1306 00:44:57,839 --> 00:45:00,880 to uh lower-income countries um and you 1307 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:02,560 know it's that kind of display 1308 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,839 uh and you know symbolic gesture of our 1309 00:45:05,839 --> 00:45:07,760 values that will ensure there is 1310 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:09,839 trust in the international system that 1311 00:45:09,839 --> 00:45:10,960 uh that we will come 1312 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:15,359 out of this uh as a globe next time 1313 00:45:15,599 --> 00:45:18,800 absolutely yeah well thank you so so 1314 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:19,280 much 1315 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,079 everyone for for joining online on the 1316 00:45:22,079 --> 00:45:22,560 app 1317 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:26,000 in the audience in geneva and london um 1318 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,880 and i think yeah it seems like there are 1319 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:29,359 no 1320 00:45:29,359 --> 00:45:31,280 really easy solutions to this problem 1321 00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:32,720 and we need to start 1322 00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:34,560 certainly thinking about the next one 1323 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:36,800 right now um so thank you for sharing 1324 00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:38,880 all your insights and thanks for joining 1325 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:40,079 today 1326 00:45:40,079 --> 00:45:47,490 thank you for the discussion 1327 00:45:47,490 --> 00:45:57,130 [Music] 1328 00:45:57,130 --> 00:45:59,200 [Applause] 1329 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:04,800 [Music] 1330 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:06,880 you