1 00:00:00,250 --> 00:00:07,440 [Music] 2 00:00:15,580 --> 00:00:21,440 [Music] 3 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,940 [Music] 4 00:00:36,220 --> 00:00:42,670 [Music] 5 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:44,230 so 6 00:00:44,230 --> 00:00:48,340 [Music] 7 00:00:48,340 --> 00:00:50,400 [Applause] 8 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,520 [Music] 9 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,280 ladies and gentlemen welcome the 10 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:57,039 moderator of the session 11 00:00:57,039 --> 00:00:58,660 annette noma 12 00:00:58,660 --> 00:01:02,019 [Music] 13 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,880 so good morning afternoon to everybody 14 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:08,080 who has joined us here 15 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:09,920 either in a room or also through our 16 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:11,360 virtual channels 17 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:13,680 from all across the world hopefully i'm 18 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:14,479 very very 19 00:01:14,479 --> 00:01:16,960 extremely happy to be back here in 20 00:01:16,960 --> 00:01:18,640 practice lava in slovakia for another 21 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:19,840 klopsec event 22 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,960 and even more grateful to be moderating 23 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:24,960 this panel on big deck and european 24 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:26,080 regulations here 25 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,159 so my name is anet numa and i work as a 26 00:01:28,159 --> 00:01:29,920 digital transformation advisor at the 27 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:31,200 estonia briefing center 28 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:32,799 but i'm going to be moderating this 29 00:01:32,799 --> 00:01:35,119 entire panel today here 30 00:01:35,119 --> 00:01:37,119 so when we talk about the european 31 00:01:37,119 --> 00:01:38,960 innovation ecosystems 32 00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:41,520 there is a clear need to find ways how 33 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:43,840 eu companies could compete against 34 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:46,720 global rivals in a way that is why it is 35 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,040 also very important to elaborate 36 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,520 um the areas where to invest in and if 37 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:52,720 we want to boost the tech 38 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,520 capabilities in a way we we have to 39 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:56,399 think about 40 00:01:56,399 --> 00:01:58,880 what could be the best uh areas on that 41 00:01:58,880 --> 00:01:59,600 side 42 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,520 but however besides that the european 43 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:03,040 union has been 44 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,200 coming up with new regulations such as 45 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:06,079 dsa 46 00:02:06,079 --> 00:02:09,119 or tma that raises a question whether 47 00:02:09,119 --> 00:02:11,760 eu by regulating big tech companies is 48 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:12,560 actually 49 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,959 setting global standards for the rest of 50 00:02:14,959 --> 00:02:15,680 the world 51 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:17,840 or at the same time there could be a 52 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:18,800 question are we 53 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,040 actually stopping innovation here so 54 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:22,640 we're going to elaborate on different 55 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:23,440 topics today 56 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,440 what are the next steps we need to take 57 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:26,800 to design and establish 58 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:29,120 functional and of course also forward 59 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:30,400 thinking systems 60 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,720 uh of of regulating that heavy weights 61 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,080 and unknown of course sensors 62 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:35,280 competitive market 63 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,800 in democratic norms here but i'm more 64 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:40,959 delighted now to of course also 65 00:02:40,959 --> 00:02:42,720 introduce you our wonderful 66 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,239 speakers panelists today uh who sadly as 67 00:02:46,239 --> 00:02:48,560 you can see are not joining with me here 68 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,440 in on the stage in a way but are joining 69 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:52,000 with me 70 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,080 uh from from different places all around 71 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,879 the world um so the first person i have 72 00:02:56,879 --> 00:02:59,760 a honor to introduce is oliver croissant 73 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:01,840 on olivier is the director channel of 74 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:03,200 directorate channel 75 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,519 for competition and working in the eu 76 00:03:05,519 --> 00:03:06,480 commission in 77 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,440 brussels and he is he has already joined 78 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:10,560 by the way european 79 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,120 commission in the year of 1992 very very 80 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:14,640 long time ago 81 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:16,560 and in the merger task force in 82 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,560 directorate channel for competition so 83 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,879 oliver thank you for joining us today 84 00:03:20,879 --> 00:03:23,680 and and secondly we do have uh someone 85 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,840 joining us from new york city very far 86 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:27,360 away so good morning to you anna 87 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:28,159 westfall 88 00:03:28,159 --> 00:03:31,920 i know bradford uh who is the uh henry l 89 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:34,319 moses professor of law international 90 00:03:34,319 --> 00:03:36,400 organizations columbia law school 91 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,200 uh from new york city as i as i said 92 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:40,000 before 93 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,319 and she's also director of for 94 00:03:42,319 --> 00:03:44,159 colombia's european legal studies 95 00:03:44,159 --> 00:03:44,959 central 96 00:03:44,959 --> 00:03:47,680 and by the way she is also the author of 97 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:48,400 um 98 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,879 a book called the brussels effect how 99 00:03:50,879 --> 00:03:53,120 the european union's rules the word 100 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,680 which is by the way also named as one of 101 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,080 the best books of 2020 102 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,879 by the foreign affairs and as a last 103 00:04:00,879 --> 00:04:01,439 person 104 00:04:01,439 --> 00:04:04,239 um we have uh together with me here on a 105 00:04:04,239 --> 00:04:04,879 panel 106 00:04:04,879 --> 00:04:07,439 hendrick burgoo who is joining us also 107 00:04:07,439 --> 00:04:09,360 from brussels if i'm correct 108 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,200 um he is the head of the government 109 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,120 affairs europe and russia 110 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,280 representing apple and he is 111 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:16,798 representing apple's interests with 112 00:04:16,798 --> 00:04:18,720 governments and public stakeholders on a 113 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:20,160 wide numbers officials 114 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,240 and of course also promoting apple's 115 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,560 growth investments in these regions 116 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,880 and he is the former president also of 117 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:28,080 the american chamber 118 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,520 of commerce today european union here 119 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:33,520 but before i'm going to start with my 120 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,440 questions here uh there is also a couple 121 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:37,040 of housekeeping rules so 122 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,440 uh people who who have joined me here in 123 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,360 this room uh you have also 124 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:43,120 a chance to ask your own questions there 125 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:44,720 is a microphone right over here where 126 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:45,919 you can just stand up 127 00:04:45,919 --> 00:04:48,160 and and stop me in a ways and raise your 128 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:49,520 hand that you have a question 129 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,600 and then we can take your questions 130 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,520 there is another opportunity also that 131 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,000 you can send us questions to the klopse 132 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:56,960 gap 133 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,840 and we use lido for that and then the 134 00:04:59,840 --> 00:05:00,400 third 135 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,960 and last option to submit your questions 136 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:04,800 and talk to our experts today 137 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,199 is to also connect over the zoom 138 00:05:07,199 --> 00:05:08,479 application 139 00:05:08,479 --> 00:05:11,919 to the virtual studio as well but now 140 00:05:11,919 --> 00:05:13,759 not to waste any more time on just the 141 00:05:13,759 --> 00:05:15,840 introduction side here um 142 00:05:15,840 --> 00:05:18,240 let's go for the first question here so 143 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:19,759 there is a clear willingness and why 144 00:05:19,759 --> 00:05:21,600 political support in the european union 145 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,360 come up with the highest and most 146 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:24,000 outstanding 147 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:25,759 standards when we talk about tech 148 00:05:25,759 --> 00:05:28,479 regulations uh the eu has introduced 149 00:05:28,479 --> 00:05:29,360 also as 150 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,600 part of the beginning the digital 151 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,360 service act and of course also digital 152 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:34,880 market act in a way 153 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,120 so to start with what are the three most 154 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:38,080 essential problems 155 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,479 these regulations are able to solve and 156 00:05:40,479 --> 00:05:42,720 i would actually start with oliver um so 157 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:44,720 all the way for you 158 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:46,479 oh thank you thank you very much and 159 00:05:46,479 --> 00:05:48,800 thank you thank you for the invite 160 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,759 um well the the two so we have two texts 161 00:05:51,759 --> 00:05:53,199 that you just said 162 00:05:53,199 --> 00:05:56,400 and one is about uh 163 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,600 keeping a market fair open 164 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,080 competitive and prone to innovation that 165 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,080 is the digital market act 166 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:05,919 because you know the accelerating 167 00:06:05,919 --> 00:06:07,759 digitization of society 168 00:06:07,759 --> 00:06:10,080 and and the economy has created a 169 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:11,759 situation where a few very large 170 00:06:11,759 --> 00:06:13,520 platforms control very important 171 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:14,880 ecosystems 172 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:16,880 and they can deploy what we call network 173 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:17,919 effects very 174 00:06:17,919 --> 00:06:21,680 very quickly um so they have emerged as 175 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,479 gatekeepers as we call them which means 176 00:06:24,479 --> 00:06:25,919 that they control 177 00:06:25,919 --> 00:06:28,720 uh the access of their markets but also 178 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,720 neighboring and adjacent markets 179 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,560 by their competitors so you know in a 180 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:34,880 world they they can act as private rule 181 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:36,240 makers 182 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,199 and of course uh that's not good that's 183 00:06:39,199 --> 00:06:40,160 not good for 184 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,199 innovation in particular uh so that's 185 00:06:43,199 --> 00:06:45,520 that's the the first set of 186 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:46,639 perturbations 187 00:06:46,639 --> 00:06:49,520 and that mainly the digital market act 188 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:50,000 now 189 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,120 the digital uh services act 190 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,120 is everything that is not strictly 191 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,199 speaking competition of course it's 192 00:06:57,199 --> 00:06:58,639 linked to competition 193 00:06:58,639 --> 00:07:01,520 but it's not it's not competition trade 194 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:02,560 on exchange of 195 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,520 illegal goods services and content 196 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,599 online 197 00:07:07,599 --> 00:07:10,800 is the misuse of services online by 198 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,599 manipulative algorithmic systems 199 00:07:13,599 --> 00:07:15,199 to amplify the spread of this 200 00:07:15,199 --> 00:07:17,280 information uh 201 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,000 et cetera so a number of new challenges 202 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:20,560 uh 203 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,800 and the way uh platforms should address 204 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:23,599 them 205 00:07:23,599 --> 00:07:26,639 uh with an effort to responsibilize uh 206 00:07:26,639 --> 00:07:27,919 the platform so that 207 00:07:27,919 --> 00:07:30,960 uh uh actually are uh are 208 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,639 are key to into uh having a safer better 209 00:07:34,639 --> 00:07:37,680 uh uh internet and of course an 210 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:38,800 additional challenge 211 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,120 is uh uh to keep the regulations 212 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:42,319 flexible 213 00:07:42,319 --> 00:07:45,919 that uh keeps innovation uh uh going 214 00:07:45,919 --> 00:07:48,160 and is future proof uh in order to 215 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:49,440 create a stable 216 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,120 unpredictable regulatory environment 217 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,680 that is necessary for firms 218 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,360 so thank you for the overview and and 219 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:56,800 the same question actually i would ask 220 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:57,840 for one or so 221 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:59,759 all the way to new york right now uh 222 00:07:59,759 --> 00:08:01,919 what are the problems that we're solving 223 00:08:01,919 --> 00:08:02,319 by 224 00:08:02,319 --> 00:08:06,560 by implementing these regulations 225 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,560 uh so thank you annette and delighted to 226 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,879 be here so i think i completely agree 227 00:08:10,879 --> 00:08:11,520 with how 228 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,080 olivier described the core of these 229 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:15,039 proposals 230 00:08:15,039 --> 00:08:16,879 but maybe just to elaborate that there 231 00:08:16,879 --> 00:08:18,560 are a couple of existing 232 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:20,960 problems that we have had in enforcing 233 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:22,879 regulations in the eu 234 00:08:22,879 --> 00:08:25,199 against these tech companies and these 235 00:08:25,199 --> 00:08:27,680 new proposed regulations are meant to 236 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,080 resolve them so first problem is that 237 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,640 these investigations that the commission 238 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,240 has taken to date 239 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,320 against companies such as google they 240 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:37,760 take a long time 241 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,159 and the markets are moving very fast so 242 00:08:40,159 --> 00:08:42,399 here we are giving new tools 243 00:08:42,399 --> 00:08:45,279 to the eu regulators to ex-ante 244 00:08:45,279 --> 00:08:47,200 intervene with a more regulatory 245 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,040 approach so the idea is that we can be 246 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:50,480 much more effective 247 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,959 in targeting these problems before they 248 00:08:52,959 --> 00:08:53,760 really get 249 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:55,680 entrenched in the marketplace so that 250 00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:56,959 they're very hard to 251 00:08:56,959 --> 00:08:59,760 reserve reverse um so that's one thing 252 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:01,519 the second problem that we have dealt 253 00:09:01,519 --> 00:09:01,839 with 254 00:09:01,839 --> 00:09:04,560 is that often regulation targets 255 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:05,440 differently 256 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,320 large companies and and small companies 257 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:10,080 in terms of their effect 258 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,160 so something that might be very feasible 259 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:13,920 for a large tech company 260 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,560 to comply with can be very burdensome 261 00:09:16,560 --> 00:09:18,880 for small and medium-sized companies 262 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,279 that was one of the criticisms of the 263 00:09:21,279 --> 00:09:22,000 general data 264 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,240 protection regulation that in many ways 265 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:25,680 it was only entrenching 266 00:09:25,680 --> 00:09:28,480 the power of big tech because they were 267 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:30,399 the companies that were able to afford 268 00:09:30,399 --> 00:09:31,600 to comply 269 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,720 so now with the dsa and the dma 270 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,120 the regulatory approach is distinctly 271 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:38,320 asymmetrical 272 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,640 meaning we are giving more burden some 273 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,640 applications to companies 274 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,760 that are able to comply with them and 275 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,839 that also have a greater impact in the 276 00:09:48,839 --> 00:09:50,240 marketplace 277 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,240 thank you for for your responses for 278 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:53,680 here hendrick do you 279 00:09:53,680 --> 00:09:56,959 want to add something as well look i 280 00:09:56,959 --> 00:09:57,839 think uh 281 00:09:57,839 --> 00:10:01,040 both anu and olivier have been you know 282 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:02,959 correct and clear in their explanations 283 00:10:02,959 --> 00:10:03,519 of what 284 00:10:03,519 --> 00:10:06,560 both the dsa and the dna are trying to 285 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:09,600 solve in terms of problems uh from a 286 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:10,959 technical perspective 287 00:10:10,959 --> 00:10:12,880 um you know one one thing that i would 288 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:14,720 add it's clear that the european 289 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:16,480 commission believes that 290 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:18,720 uh there's a market access problem that 291 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:20,640 needs to be solved in digital markets 292 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,640 and that uh large platform owners 293 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,240 are creating bottlenecks for smaller 294 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,279 digital firms to access the marketplace 295 00:10:31,279 --> 00:10:34,320 there are quote unquote gatekeepers 296 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,519 and you know i think that this may be 297 00:10:37,519 --> 00:10:38,959 true to a certain extent for certain 298 00:10:38,959 --> 00:10:39,839 gatekeepers 299 00:10:39,839 --> 00:10:42,640 uh for certain operators of uh digital 300 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:43,680 platforms 301 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:47,440 for others uh i find it more difficult 302 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,560 to to see as a real problem uh 303 00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:52,000 if you take the example of the company 304 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:53,680 that i work for apple 305 00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:56,240 we operate a large platform called the 306 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:57,680 app store 307 00:10:57,680 --> 00:11:00,160 we have 1.8 million apps on the app 308 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:01,040 store 309 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,440 and you know part of our business model 310 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,160 is to ensure that we have as many as 311 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,800 uh quality apps that are safe secure and 312 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:09,839 privacy 313 00:11:09,839 --> 00:11:12,160 uh centric applications on our app store 314 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:12,959 because 315 00:11:12,959 --> 00:11:15,040 it will make our devices more successful 316 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:16,880 and we'll have better consumer 317 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:18,560 experience and richer experience if we 318 00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:19,760 have more apps so 319 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,959 you know for for for some of those uh 320 00:11:22,959 --> 00:11:25,279 objectives the problems for my 321 00:11:25,279 --> 00:11:26,320 perspective 322 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:28,560 certainly for a company perspective 323 00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:29,519 apple it's 324 00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:32,560 are less or less are less realistic and 325 00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:34,240 then what i would also add if i can i 326 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:34,800 think 327 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,440 also there's an underlying political 328 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:38,320 problem 329 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,560 that europe is trying to address which 330 00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:42,240 is by by setting 331 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,240 the global standard the ambition of 332 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,160 setting the global standard for platform 333 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:47,279 regulation 334 00:11:47,279 --> 00:11:49,519 i think uh europe wants to try to 335 00:11:49,519 --> 00:11:51,839 contribute to achieving greater digital 336 00:11:51,839 --> 00:11:52,880 sovereignty 337 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,040 uh because if it if it is able to set 338 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:56,560 the global standard 339 00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:59,360 it means that others will have to comply 340 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:00,880 with that standard 341 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,360 and that therefore european values that 342 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:04,560 are included 343 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:06,639 in those in those european uh 344 00:12:06,639 --> 00:12:08,079 regulations will be 345 00:12:08,079 --> 00:12:11,040 will be decided uh in europe and and and 346 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,120 so decisions will be not taken 347 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,040 outside of europe so i think there's 348 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,120 this underlying political objective as 349 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:17,760 well 350 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,160 yeah we're going to come back to that 351 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:21,839 whether the rest of the world is going 352 00:12:21,839 --> 00:12:22,399 to be 353 00:12:22,399 --> 00:12:24,399 uh taking over the regulations by the 354 00:12:24,399 --> 00:12:26,160 european union as well a little later 355 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:27,600 but i would actually continue with you 356 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,120 hendrick here because uh i have a 357 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:30,399 question especially regarding your 358 00:12:30,399 --> 00:12:31,120 representing 359 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,839 apple here so we know that the big debt 360 00:12:33,839 --> 00:12:35,760 companies face yearly checks on how they 361 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:36,560 are tackling 362 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:39,040 illegal content under the new rules by 363 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:40,560 the european commission in a way 364 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:42,320 and and right and different kind of 365 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,320 large fines and breakups are threatening 366 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:46,560 uh in case big their companies are known 367 00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:47,839 compliance 368 00:12:47,839 --> 00:12:50,399 and in case of companies refused to buy 369 00:12:50,399 --> 00:12:52,000 um they could have 370 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,480 to hand over up to 10 percent of their 371 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:55,600 turnover 372 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,680 as a representative rapport and could 373 00:12:57,680 --> 00:12:59,279 you eva evaluate 374 00:12:59,279 --> 00:13:03,360 the impressiveness of these measures 375 00:13:03,519 --> 00:13:05,600 well you know let me let me start by 376 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:06,800 saying that of course 377 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:08,560 you know fines and remedies whether 378 00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:10,000 they're structural or behavioral 379 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:10,880 remedies are 380 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,000 of course very important factors uh 381 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,240 that will contribute without a doubt to 382 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,839 achieving the stated goals of those 383 00:13:18,839 --> 00:13:21,920 regulations but they're not 384 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,079 novel features i mean competition law 385 00:13:24,079 --> 00:13:25,760 today 386 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:27,760 allows for the ability to impose fines 387 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:29,279 to impose these types of remedies 388 00:13:29,279 --> 00:13:31,680 privacy legislation as well to a lesser 389 00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:33,440 extent but 390 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,320 you still have enforcement mechanisms uh 391 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,399 and so the dsa and the dma in particular 392 00:13:38,399 --> 00:13:40,320 also have enforcement mechanisms and 393 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:41,519 fines which is 394 00:13:41,519 --> 00:13:44,560 not very uh novel what i think the the 395 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:45,680 real novelty 396 00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:48,880 uh lies in the dma the digital markets 397 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:50,000 act which proposes 398 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,959 an ex ante approach uh it basically 399 00:13:52,959 --> 00:13:54,880 stands for the proposition 400 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,320 uh that uh certain conduct uh 401 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:02,240 by platforms uh is is illegal uh 402 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,360 and it creates basically a shortcut for 403 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:06,800 public authorities 404 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,720 to decide which one should be allowed 405 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,079 and which one shouldn't be allowed i 406 00:14:10,079 --> 00:14:12,320 mean the traditional approach is that 407 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,279 one should first determine that uh a 408 00:14:15,279 --> 00:14:17,760 company has significant market power 409 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:19,920 uh that it has durable market power 410 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,000 dominance that allows its to 411 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,560 you know operate to a significant extent 412 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:25,920 independently from its 413 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,480 consumers and customers you know public 414 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:29,680 authorities won't have to do that 415 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:31,440 anymore under the dma 416 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,079 uh secondly uh there won't be a need to 417 00:14:34,079 --> 00:14:35,839 determine whether or not the conduct in 418 00:14:35,839 --> 00:14:36,880 question 419 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,480 uh constitutes uh you know or risks 420 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,480 excluding competitors 421 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,160 uh or or abusing uh consumers 422 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,959 or exploiting consumers that's you know 423 00:14:48,959 --> 00:14:51,120 a given that's predetermined and last 424 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:52,720 but not least it certainly 425 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:54,880 does not require the public authorities 426 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:56,000 to determine whether they're 427 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,519 countervailing 428 00:14:58,519 --> 00:15:01,040 justifications or efficiencies economic 429 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:02,240 efficiencies or non-economic 430 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:03,920 efficiencies that would 431 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,120 warrant in specific cases not 432 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,639 uh imposing specific obligations and so 433 00:15:10,639 --> 00:15:13,040 that's really the novelty and it really 434 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:14,560 stands for the proposition 435 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,000 uh and at that uh you know legislators 436 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,199 because it's now in the hands of the 437 00:15:19,199 --> 00:15:21,360 legislators that legislators have gained 438 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:22,560 sufficient 439 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,279 knowledge which is experienced in these 440 00:15:25,279 --> 00:15:28,399 complex diverse and very dynamic markets 441 00:15:28,399 --> 00:15:32,000 that they can actually in advance codify 442 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,240 which behavior is appropriate which 443 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:35,759 behavior is not appropriate and i find 444 00:15:35,759 --> 00:15:36,560 that 445 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,000 you know a a um a a a 446 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,839 a difficult working hypothesis so i'll 447 00:15:43,839 --> 00:15:45,199 stop there thank you 448 00:15:45,199 --> 00:15:47,519 okay thank you um but but speaking of 449 00:15:47,519 --> 00:15:48,880 from the citizens 450 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,199 perspective here uh a survey released in 451 00:15:51,199 --> 00:15:52,880 the year of 2019 452 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,600 um stated that 74 of the european 453 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,279 citizens would want to know more 454 00:15:57,279 --> 00:15:59,600 how their data is used by social media 455 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,120 platforms when they access 456 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,079 other websites uh concerns over the data 457 00:16:04,079 --> 00:16:06,240 and its protection has grown drastically 458 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:07,920 in recent years that's what we all know 459 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:08,560 here 460 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,160 um how has the european commission 461 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,320 addressed these trends and i would ask 462 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,199 this question from oliver 463 00:16:15,199 --> 00:16:16,880 well thank you well let me first maybe 464 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:18,959 react to what rick just said 465 00:16:18,959 --> 00:16:21,120 um so that will make it a bit more fun i 466 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:22,399 mean uh 467 00:16:22,399 --> 00:16:24,000 it just describes the difference between 468 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,079 competition law and uh 469 00:16:26,079 --> 00:16:28,639 and regulatory policy i mean there's the 470 00:16:28,639 --> 00:16:29,279 the 471 00:16:29,279 --> 00:16:31,839 the very essence of of an exante 472 00:16:31,839 --> 00:16:33,839 regulation 473 00:16:33,839 --> 00:16:35,519 in particular in consumer protection 474 00:16:35,519 --> 00:16:36,959 field or 475 00:16:36,959 --> 00:16:38,880 fair trading is that you you tell 476 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:40,160 companies what they can 477 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,560 not do uh and in this case what they 478 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:43,920 cannot do 479 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:45,839 uh is actually that's why there is a 480 00:16:45,839 --> 00:16:47,600 relatively limited list of 481 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,600 of things they cannot do and it's based 482 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:50,880 on 20 years of 483 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,360 decision practice of the commission and 484 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:54,720 the case laws of the 485 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,000 uh uh okay sorry uh 486 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,279 cases in the in court uh so this 487 00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:03,839 these are practices from which we know 488 00:17:03,839 --> 00:17:05,280 that when they are implemented 489 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,919 by uh large platforms with a gatekeeper 490 00:17:07,919 --> 00:17:09,119 function 491 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,280 are invariably detrimental to to 492 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:12,559 consumers 493 00:17:12,559 --> 00:17:14,640 uh so from the point of view of citizens 494 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,199 that is quite that is quite relevant 495 00:17:17,199 --> 00:17:20,640 uh for for the rest uh 496 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:22,240 there is a common understanding around 497 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,640 the world that there is a need for 498 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,559 uh balanced regulation that ensures that 499 00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:28,160 citizens and business 500 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:29,360 can benefit equally from the 501 00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:30,960 opportunities offered by the digital 502 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,080 economy and 503 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,440 we did not yet address the draft bills 504 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:36,240 that are 505 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,679 now in front of the us congress because 506 00:17:39,679 --> 00:17:41,120 to take to borrow the there was a 507 00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:43,360 hendrick i guess the congress also 508 00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:46,080 felt confident enough to be able to to 509 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,000 table quite far-reaching proposal and in 510 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:48,640 some ways 511 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:50,799 more far-reaching than what we have 512 00:17:50,799 --> 00:17:51,760 proposed 513 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,440 here in uh in europe uh the protection 514 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,520 of users privacy 515 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,559 for example key principle it has guided 516 00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:03,760 action over the past years in the gdpr 517 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:05,520 and it is true that to a large extent 518 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,679 for the gdpr we have 519 00:18:07,679 --> 00:18:10,720 set a global standard but 520 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,919 that's not the objective the objective 521 00:18:13,919 --> 00:18:15,520 now our objective is not to rule the 522 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:16,640 world 523 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,320 uh maybe others have this objective but 524 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,400 that's not ours our objective 525 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,679 is to protect our citizens 526 00:18:23,679 --> 00:18:27,440 uh and uh have a legal system 527 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,080 which offers the digital ecosystems the 528 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:31,280 opportunity to grow 529 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,320 innovate uh while respecting uh 530 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,360 european uh value 531 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:39,280 so and that's what we're trying to do 532 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,520 here we're trying to complement 533 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,280 the existing framework data protection 534 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,440 laws for example transparency 535 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:46,559 applications on 536 00:18:46,559 --> 00:18:50,000 deep consumer profiling will help inform 537 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,240 gdpr enforcement 538 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,160 whereas mandatory opt-out for data 539 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:55,280 combination across 540 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,160 core platform services supplements the 541 00:18:58,160 --> 00:18:59,760 existing level of protection under the 542 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:00,799 gdpr 543 00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:03,039 so you have a lot of cross uh 544 00:19:03,039 --> 00:19:04,240 relationship 545 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,440 with uh are here to actually address 546 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,559 very deep concerns uh as your 547 00:19:10,559 --> 00:19:15,200 paul showed within within eu citizens 548 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:16,720 yeah thanks for thanks for bringing it 549 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:18,400 up also the 550 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,320 comparison to regarding the gdpr 551 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,000 regulations as well because we know that 552 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:23,679 thanks to gdpr regulations which was 553 00:19:23,679 --> 00:19:24,400 already 554 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,960 introduced in the year 2018 the u.s 555 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:28,000 citizens had 556 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,320 a stronger right to decide what big debt 557 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,000 companies can do with their 558 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,400 information and personal data and and 559 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,320 this also inspired by many other 560 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,960 lawmakers from all across the words to 561 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:40,799 make changes in their systems as well 562 00:19:40,799 --> 00:19:42,480 we have a couple of examples regarding 563 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,960 from brazil from australia 564 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,120 and this also has raised the strongest 565 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:48,000 discussions 566 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,720 on a data protection in the u.s and as 567 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,200 anu you are based in new york city um do 568 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:54,720 you think that the same effect would 569 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:55,760 also happen 570 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,720 uh this time with the dsa and and the uh 571 00:19:58,720 --> 00:19:59,039 the 572 00:19:59,039 --> 00:20:01,520 uh dma uh regulations as well uh the 573 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,520 different lawmakers from other countries 574 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:04,000 uh 575 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:05,760 are going to make some changes in their 576 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,400 systems too 577 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,840 yeah so let's uh be clear on uh how the 578 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:13,919 eu has been so effective 579 00:20:13,919 --> 00:20:16,880 in making the gdpr the global standard 580 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,799 and i agree with olivier that it is not 581 00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:19,280 for the 582 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,840 intention to rule the world the eu has 583 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,240 been very confident in laying out a 584 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,320 regulatory approach that serves 585 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,280 the european citizens and internet users 586 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,280 and at the same time when doing so 587 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,280 when it has been regulating the 588 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,280 companies and their privacy standards 589 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,120 these companies have made 590 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:39,520 a voluntary decision in line with their 591 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:40,640 business interests 592 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,760 often to extend the european rule across 593 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,039 their global 594 00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:48,080 practices so in that sense only 595 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,480 by regulating the single market the eu 596 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:51,919 has been able to sit back 597 00:20:51,919 --> 00:20:54,559 and let the companies then transpose the 598 00:20:54,559 --> 00:20:56,960 european standard across the global uh 599 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:58,000 marketplace so 600 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,200 that's why apple has the european gdpr 601 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,000 as its global privacy standard the same 602 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:05,520 goes for google 603 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,880 facebook microsoft so whether this would 604 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:09,280 then 605 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,799 happen uh in the dma and dsa context 606 00:21:12,799 --> 00:21:14,559 i would say that there are many reasons 607 00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:16,159 why i would expect at least 608 00:21:16,159 --> 00:21:18,480 partial brussels effect to touch these 609 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,080 regulations as well 610 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,600 first of all the world in which the eu 611 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,159 is now introducing these regulations has 612 00:21:26,159 --> 00:21:28,320 shifted already towards the european 613 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:28,960 norms 614 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,760 so compared to the time when the gdpr 615 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,360 was released i think there was 616 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:35,840 less of a refined understanding around 617 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:36,559 the world 618 00:21:36,559 --> 00:21:39,520 how much these companies business models 619 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:40,080 depend 620 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,120 on data often very privacy infringing 621 00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:45,600 ways of gaining access to data tracking 622 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:46,880 their consumers 623 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,360 online and compromising in many ways the 624 00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:50,080 personal 625 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,480 uh autonomy and and privacy of the 626 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:53,679 individuals 627 00:21:53,679 --> 00:21:56,799 so there's a lot more willingness to to 628 00:21:56,799 --> 00:21:59,120 focus on what the eu is doing with the 629 00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:00,799 understanding that the eu 630 00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:04,080 is uh often the trailblazer and the one 631 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,080 with the most ambitious standard 632 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,640 and with the capacity then to often set 633 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,080 the standards globally 634 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,240 so i think there are the companies are 635 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,320 watching what the eu is doing 636 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,799 also considering when it is in their 637 00:22:16,799 --> 00:22:17,360 entrance 638 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:20,400 uh to implement any of the changes 639 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,280 uh caused by the dma and dsa across the 640 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:24,559 global marketplace 641 00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:26,000 but then we also have foreign 642 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,080 governments who are increasingly 643 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,080 responding to the demand of these 644 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:30,960 citizens 645 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,840 to also offer a more robust regulatory 646 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,600 framework so i think we will see this at 647 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:36,559 two levels 648 00:22:36,559 --> 00:22:39,280 we will see some of these practices by 649 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:40,559 the corporations 650 00:22:40,559 --> 00:22:42,559 big tech companies to be implemented 651 00:22:42,559 --> 00:22:43,840 globally there will be more 652 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:44,960 accountability 653 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,200 more algorithmic transparency but we 654 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,280 will also see the governments in 655 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:50,799 different parts of the world 656 00:22:50,799 --> 00:22:52,799 including in the united states the 657 00:22:52,799 --> 00:22:54,159 conversation is really 658 00:22:54,159 --> 00:22:56,960 shifting in the u.s when it comes to the 659 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:58,320 harms of the big tech 660 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,559 and the need for the regulators to be 661 00:23:00,559 --> 00:23:02,159 more interventionist 662 00:23:02,159 --> 00:23:04,640 so i also see much more demand on the 663 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:05,520 u.s side 664 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,280 to start following the european 665 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,360 regulatory approach 666 00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:11,440 and thank you i know um now now 667 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:12,799 switching over to 668 00:23:12,799 --> 00:23:15,520 a topic of regulating ai which was also 669 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,440 one of the topics of our conversation 670 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:18,159 here today 671 00:23:18,159 --> 00:23:19,520 we know that the european commission is 672 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,679 also working on a plan of regulating the 673 00:23:21,679 --> 00:23:22,960 use of ai 674 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,640 more and more tech companies and also 675 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,480 some of the states also 676 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,120 where i come from estonia is using ai 677 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:29,840 solutions 678 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,559 ai based solutions technology already 679 00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:32,880 for 680 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,360 quite some time for offering services to 681 00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:37,280 the customers and and also the citizens 682 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:38,000 aspect 683 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,320 um do you think that the new rules in 684 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:41,919 regulating the use of ai 685 00:23:41,919 --> 00:23:44,080 are some ways stopping the innovation 686 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,679 and and most of these regulations are 687 00:23:45,679 --> 00:23:48,000 not even being fully approved yet 688 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,240 aren't we a little bit too late already 689 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,240 by regulating the use of ai 690 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,159 in in some of the places maybe the 691 00:23:54,159 --> 00:23:57,520 question could be for oliver 692 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,320 yeah well thank you um well too early or 693 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:01,200 too late it's 694 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,080 uh it's always the problem of every 695 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:04,880 regulator 696 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,000 uh too early stifle innovation too late 697 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,039 uh damage might have happened uh so that 698 00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:12,000 that's that's always 699 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,279 an issue but the reason why we're 700 00:24:13,279 --> 00:24:15,520 putting rules in place uh for new 701 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:16,559 technologies is 702 00:24:16,559 --> 00:24:20,080 is to tackle any concerns but also 703 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,240 in terms of business opportunities 704 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,080 mistrust that people might have 705 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,240 and you know once the mistress is there 706 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,799 uh it becomes very difficult to regain 707 00:24:28,799 --> 00:24:30,000 the confidence of 708 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,080 of the consumers it's also good for 709 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,240 people uh that's my message 710 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,480 uh i will also we want also to give 711 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,400 clarity and predictability 712 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,640 um to to to all involved and in 713 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,720 particular companies 714 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,159 so ai is no doubt a strategic technology 715 00:24:46,159 --> 00:24:49,039 it involves tremendous opportunities but 716 00:24:49,039 --> 00:24:50,320 some of its uses 717 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,679 pose very specific risks uh that 718 00:24:53,679 --> 00:24:56,159 relate to the application of various eu 719 00:24:56,159 --> 00:24:57,679 rules 720 00:24:57,679 --> 00:25:00,159 designed to ensure safety designed to 721 00:25:00,159 --> 00:25:02,480 protect fundamental rights and value 722 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,880 so with this initiatives what we we want 723 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:05,760 to do 724 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,480 is try to ensure that ai is developed 725 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:09,840 and used in a 726 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,320 legal framework with the overall goal to 727 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,400 stimulate the tech up 728 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,360 of trustworthy ai in in our single 729 00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:17,919 market 730 00:25:17,919 --> 00:25:20,799 so concretely the proposed uh the 731 00:25:20,799 --> 00:25:22,640 proposal 732 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,279 proposes limited or no regulation for ai 733 00:25:25,279 --> 00:25:26,720 systems 734 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,279 when they pose minimal or no risk and 735 00:25:29,279 --> 00:25:31,120 that is the case for the overwhelming 736 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:32,720 majority 737 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,360 but the proposal bans uh systems that 738 00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:36,640 pose an ex 739 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,919 unacceptable risks uh for example toys 740 00:25:39,919 --> 00:25:41,600 using voice assistance 741 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,520 that encourage dangerous behavior of 742 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,840 minors of miners sorry 743 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,559 or systems that allow social scoring by 744 00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:49,760 governments 745 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,240 this will be banned in the in the in the 746 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:53,600 eu 747 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,320 and and we also plan to impose strict 748 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:57,679 requirements 749 00:25:57,679 --> 00:26:00,559 on systems that pose a high risk uh let 750 00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:02,240 me just take an example 751 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,080 ai application in robot assisted surgery 752 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,640 well i i think we have a duty to to to 753 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,640 impose extra safety 754 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,760 on uh on this type of uh of 755 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,200 application so of course there is more 756 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:18,320 than one way to get 757 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,799 uh to get the balance right but this is 758 00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:21,919 really about 759 00:26:21,919 --> 00:26:23,600 getting the balance right between 760 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:24,960 building trust 761 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,000 and increasing uptake on the one hand uh 762 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:28,559 versus 763 00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:30,960 fostering innovation on the other hand 764 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:31,679 and uh 765 00:26:31,679 --> 00:26:33,600 we believe we we struck the the best 766 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,520 balance we could 767 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,840 do but whatever a follow-up question to 768 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,360 you as well here is that do you think 769 00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:40,080 that we should 770 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,799 raise awareness of ai in the european 771 00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:44,559 union in a way because we have had these 772 00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:46,559 discussions a lot because people 773 00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:49,200 mistake the eai still like even in the 774 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:50,400 year of 2001 775 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,039 uh 2021. so do you think we should have 776 00:26:53,039 --> 00:26:54,320 any kind of uh 777 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,799 i don't know projects or initiatives 778 00:26:56,799 --> 00:26:58,960 again uh to raise the public awareness 779 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,840 of the ai 780 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,600 well i don't know i mean i think people 781 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,159 people have a pretty good idea what ai 782 00:27:08,159 --> 00:27:09,679 is 783 00:27:09,679 --> 00:27:12,080 um i'm not sure how successful an 784 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:13,760 awareness freezing campaign 785 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,960 would be i mean i i think 786 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,200 generally what the average citizens 787 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,120 wants and wants to benefit from all the 788 00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:21,840 uh 789 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,720 uh increased wealth and choice and 790 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,120 quality of new services that it uh 791 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:29,440 involves but it doesn't want this 792 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:30,240 privacy 793 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,120 uh to be to be to be at stake or at 794 00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:34,559 least not 795 00:27:34,559 --> 00:27:36,960 in a way that is sort of kind of 796 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,399 involuntary 797 00:27:38,399 --> 00:27:41,440 and he certainly wants that obligations 798 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:42,799 that are 799 00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:46,880 life-risking or potentially go against 800 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,360 core criminal regulations are either 801 00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:51,039 banned or strictly controlled i think 802 00:27:51,039 --> 00:27:51,919 this is 803 00:27:51,919 --> 00:27:54,880 this is the debates we we must uh have 804 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,640 rather than a generic debate on what 805 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,000 ai is thank you um 806 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,600 we have already received a couple of 807 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,919 questions also from our audience and i 808 00:28:03,919 --> 00:28:05,200 would encourage everyone 809 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,360 uh you have a chance to ask questions or 810 00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:09,200 if anybody here in the room wants to ask 811 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:10,399 a question raise your hand 812 00:28:10,399 --> 00:28:11,840 you will be welcome to you to join us 813 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,640 here um so one of the questions that 814 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,000 is kind of interesting that we have 815 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,600 received from uh from someone from our 816 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:18,720 listeners today 817 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,799 uh when and why the european union wants 818 00:28:20,799 --> 00:28:22,399 to regulate mobile phone uh 819 00:28:22,399 --> 00:28:24,159 manufacturers to implement 820 00:28:24,159 --> 00:28:27,679 one common usb charger cable for every 821 00:28:27,679 --> 00:28:28,960 brand 822 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,799 who wants to to go and answer that 823 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,399 oliver you uh hendrik well i have no 824 00:28:36,399 --> 00:28:36,960 idea 825 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,360 i i just recall i died of general for 826 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,360 competition but i'm happy to ask my 827 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:46,559 colleague in charge of standardization 828 00:28:46,559 --> 00:28:49,760 henrik any comments from that no i think 829 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,440 there have been calls in the european 830 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,039 union for 831 00:28:53,039 --> 00:28:56,240 uh regulating uh the so-called common 832 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:57,039 charges for 833 00:28:57,039 --> 00:29:00,880 mobile devices um you know i'm 834 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,679 not aware of what the latest statuses of 835 00:29:03,679 --> 00:29:04,559 those 836 00:29:04,559 --> 00:29:07,279 uh initiatives i would just add that i 837 00:29:07,279 --> 00:29:08,640 think that it's the 838 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,279 you know an important role for 839 00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:12,000 policymakers 840 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,799 and legislators is to set out what the 841 00:29:14,799 --> 00:29:16,559 objectives ought to be 842 00:29:16,559 --> 00:29:20,080 for manufacturers in terms of achieving 843 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,480 environmental standards environmental 844 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:23,520 footprints 845 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,720 but i would caution against politicians 846 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,200 and regulators and legislators to decide 847 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,399 which specific technology manufacturers 848 00:29:32,399 --> 00:29:33,679 should be using 849 00:29:33,679 --> 00:29:35,120 in the marketplace i think these are 850 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,000 decisions that are better left to 851 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,200 engineers and and market participants uh 852 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:42,000 but again i'm 853 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,080 i frankly i'm not sure what the uh what 854 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:45,440 the current status is of 855 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,520 of of the proposal and i know that there 856 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,600 are people that are thinking about 857 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,480 introducing these types of proposals so 858 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:53,600 i'll stop 859 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,600 thank you um so there's another question 860 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:56,720 from uh from our 861 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,960 uh one of our um our listeners anyway 862 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,919 um so will the will the newly uh created 863 00:30:03,919 --> 00:30:06,240 standards uh contractual clauses be a 864 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,080 sufficient tool for comply 865 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,799 with the conclusions of streams too 866 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,679 who would like to take that one here 867 00:30:17,679 --> 00:30:21,279 any comments from i know oliver 868 00:30:21,679 --> 00:30:23,279 well i don't know i talked a lot so 869 00:30:23,279 --> 00:30:24,799 maybe i knew and then i'm happy to 870 00:30:24,799 --> 00:30:27,120 compliment a few words 871 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:28,720 i am happy to weigh in and just to 872 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,279 remind of the listeners who may not be 873 00:30:31,279 --> 00:30:33,120 familiar with the ins and outs of the 874 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,440 history of the data transfers between 875 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:36,080 the united 876 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,120 states and the eu is that there has been 877 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:43,039 a a specific agreement negotiated by the 878 00:30:43,039 --> 00:30:45,120 u.s and the eu government to facilitate 879 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:45,440 the 880 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,360 data flows and to respond to the 881 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,200 concerns that the europeans have 882 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,360 that the americans don't sufficiently 883 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:52,240 guarantee 884 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,080 the protection of the privacy of the 885 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:55,440 european data 886 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,320 but these uh agreements negotiated have 887 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,120 been invalidated not just once by but 888 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,320 twice by the the highest european court 889 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,600 so we have a tremendous pressure to find 890 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:08,480 a way to 891 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,480 restore those data flows that are 892 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,559 fundamentally important for both 893 00:31:12,559 --> 00:31:15,200 the united states and uh the european 894 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:16,000 economy 895 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,240 but i will i i would be too quick to try 896 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:19,519 to conclude that now 897 00:31:19,519 --> 00:31:21,120 something is sufficient because the 898 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,120 history shows that the european court 899 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:24,720 will hold these agreements 900 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,279 to an extremely high standard but what 901 00:31:27,279 --> 00:31:29,440 we do see that there is a political 902 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:30,480 agreement both 903 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,960 in the u.s and the the eu that something 904 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:34,960 needs to be done the negotiations have 905 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:36,159 been accelerated 906 00:31:36,159 --> 00:31:38,080 and there's a genuine attempt to find a 907 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:39,360 solution that both 908 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,399 serves their dire business needs but 909 00:31:42,399 --> 00:31:43,039 also 910 00:31:43,039 --> 00:31:46,159 take seriously uh the fundamental rights 911 00:31:46,159 --> 00:31:47,360 uh protections 912 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,760 nobody wants a third case from the 913 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,399 european court of justice that yet again 914 00:31:52,399 --> 00:31:54,640 will invalidate those data flows there's 915 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,399 enough legal uncertainty 916 00:31:56,399 --> 00:31:58,720 but i am optimistic that given the 917 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:00,000 importance of these issues 918 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,559 it will be elevated in salience and 919 00:32:02,559 --> 00:32:04,159 priority 920 00:32:04,159 --> 00:32:07,200 thank you anna um so so moving over 921 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,600 here so it has been discussed uh very 922 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,159 widely uh why most of the global 923 00:32:12,159 --> 00:32:15,200 giants have not chosen european union 924 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,399 are you as as their home market has it 925 00:32:18,399 --> 00:32:20,159 anything to do with regulations or 926 00:32:20,159 --> 00:32:21,279 what's the reason 927 00:32:21,279 --> 00:32:24,159 why the very big tech companies have not 928 00:32:24,159 --> 00:32:26,240 chosen the european union astr 929 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,799 home in a way maybe hendrick you would 930 00:32:28,799 --> 00:32:30,880 like to take that one 931 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,919 sure so um i 932 00:32:33,919 --> 00:32:37,039 i don't think uh regulation 933 00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:40,320 is a key factor as to why there are 934 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,480 virtually no uh 935 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,880 successful global tech players that are 936 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,799 of european origin 937 00:32:46,799 --> 00:32:49,600 um i mean it probably plays the role but 938 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:50,559 frankly 939 00:32:50,559 --> 00:32:52,000 you know the reality is that today 940 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,080 digital technology is changing our lives 941 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,320 it's changing our society 942 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,960 and so let me be very clear i think it's 943 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:00,640 totally legitimate and appropriate and 944 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:01,760 necessary 945 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,799 for policymakers regulators legislators 946 00:33:04,799 --> 00:33:06,960 to make sure that 947 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,039 that they have the right tools 948 00:33:09,039 --> 00:33:11,200 instruments that are fit for purpose 949 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,600 to ensure that their citizens and their 950 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,159 companies can leverage the opportunities 951 00:33:16,159 --> 00:33:18,640 of of uh digital technologies and 952 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,159 protect them from the risk 953 00:33:20,159 --> 00:33:21,919 that sometimes derives from digital 954 00:33:21,919 --> 00:33:23,440 technology so 955 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,840 there's as such and of itself i think 956 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:26,799 nothing 957 00:33:26,799 --> 00:33:30,240 uh inappropriate uh or abnormal 958 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:31,840 on the contrary to wanting to make sure 959 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:33,919 that there's regulation in place 960 00:33:33,919 --> 00:33:35,919 the the difficulty is making sure that 961 00:33:35,919 --> 00:33:37,600 the regulation is the right regulation 962 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,279 that's appropriate regulation and 963 00:33:39,279 --> 00:33:40,960 and i think if you want to you know 964 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,960 export regulation as a rulemaker you 965 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:44,240 want to make sure that 966 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,039 it does uh protect consumer it does 967 00:33:47,039 --> 00:33:48,799 protect privacy rights 968 00:33:48,799 --> 00:33:51,360 and uh the dma in this respect i think 969 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:52,480 is uh 970 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,240 is open to criticism as it's being 971 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,240 proposed having said that 972 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,360 uh what makes uh companies 973 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,880 decide to uh invest 974 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,519 in in a specific country to become a 975 00:34:05,519 --> 00:34:06,000 global 976 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,239 player i think these are uh you know 977 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:09,040 very 978 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,918 uh critical uh questions and you know i 979 00:34:11,918 --> 00:34:14,000 can think of a number one number one is 980 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,159 access to venture capital and in order 981 00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:17,679 to have access to venture capital you 982 00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:19,440 have to have very well functioning 983 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,679 capital markets i think the european 984 00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:23,359 union needs to work on that 985 00:34:23,359 --> 00:34:26,639 secondly uh investment uh 986 00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:28,480 europe is working on investment we have 987 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,280 a an unprecedented 750 billion 988 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,159 recovery plan 20 of it 30 of it is 989 00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:35,280 dedicated to 990 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,839 to digital which is great thirdly 991 00:34:37,839 --> 00:34:39,040 digital skills 992 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,440 there's a huge digital skills gaps that 993 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:42,639 europe can address 994 00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:44,399 and last but not least i think europe 995 00:34:44,399 --> 00:34:45,918 needs to continue to working on the 996 00:34:45,918 --> 00:34:47,599 digital single market and this is where 997 00:34:47,599 --> 00:34:50,399 regulation can play a very positive role 998 00:34:50,399 --> 00:34:50,960 in 999 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:52,960 eliminating barriers to trade and 1000 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,199 investment that exists as a result of 1001 00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:56,960 different legal regimes in europe 1002 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,320 and so in a way regulation can help 1003 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,680 innovation can help also ensuring that 1004 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,640 uh uh digital players in europe become 1005 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,280 more successful on a global basis 1006 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,200 uh also i would pull up the same 1007 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:12,640 question to either how to get 1008 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,880 european uh how to get very big debt 1009 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:15,680 companies 1010 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,240 to set up their headquarters to europe 1011 00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:19,599 how do you attract 1012 00:35:19,599 --> 00:35:23,520 uh um like the big companies 1013 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,720 to me yes okay 1014 00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:29,440 well first of all i agree entirely with 1015 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,280 what enriquez said 1016 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,160 um well and it's not a question of 1017 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,560 attracting really i mean you know 1018 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,119 people tends to establish where they're 1019 00:35:39,119 --> 00:35:40,480 from 1020 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,560 so if your steep job why on earth would 1021 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:43,520 you incorporate 1022 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,280 april in the eu were you very fine in 1023 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,200 california and you have everything you 1024 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,599 need you have indeed the capital markets 1025 00:35:51,599 --> 00:35:52,480 you have 1026 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,359 uh the skills you have the working 1027 00:35:55,359 --> 00:35:56,000 capital 1028 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,119 you have everything in it so the 1029 00:35:59,119 --> 00:36:00,079 question 1030 00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:04,240 for for the for the eu is how do you 1031 00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:07,680 uh create the conditions 1032 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,640 that make that the the next apple will 1033 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,079 be european 1034 00:36:12,079 --> 00:36:14,640 and uh it's not so much a question of 1035 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:15,359 innovation 1036 00:36:15,359 --> 00:36:17,520 because we do have innovation but the 1037 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,200 problem is that when these innovators 1038 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,520 need to move to the higher scale 1039 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,160 they do not find the financing so risk 1040 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,480 capital venture capital and that's why 1041 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:27,200 we have 1042 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:28,720 launched this capital market union 1043 00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:30,240 project in europe 1044 00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:32,560 uh that that didn't go fast enough and 1045 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,640 they're still not going fast enough 1046 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,000 uh it is because when the uh uh 1047 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,640 the companies these innovators needs to 1048 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:41,839 reach the capital mass 1049 00:36:41,839 --> 00:36:44,880 to to become true world players well 1050 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,560 they usually cross the atlantic because 1051 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,640 this is where they get financed 1052 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,359 i mean moderna take vaccines moderna is 1053 00:36:51,359 --> 00:36:53,520 a great successory of the us 1054 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,800 except it's a bunch of marseille france 1055 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,599 based scientists but when they needed 5 1056 00:36:59,599 --> 00:37:00,320 billion 1057 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:01,760 the only place on earth where they could 1058 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,599 find it was in the u.s so they moved to 1059 00:37:03,599 --> 00:37:05,200 the u.s 1060 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,359 very good for the u.s very bad for us 1061 00:37:07,359 --> 00:37:09,119 spotify 1062 00:37:09,119 --> 00:37:12,000 and you would have many other success 1063 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:12,800 stories 1064 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:14,960 like this and this is because at some 1065 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:16,480 point you need to go where you find the 1066 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,240 capital to finance you 1067 00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:20,079 skills of course very important as well 1068 00:37:20,079 --> 00:37:22,640 and all the other factors that uh 1069 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,320 that uh eric mentioned regulation 1070 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,359 in my view definitely not a deterrent 1071 00:37:29,359 --> 00:37:32,480 uh one really well used actually 1072 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,520 an attractivity factor in my view thank 1073 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:36,160 you 1074 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:37,760 um we have received a question from 1075 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,280 lucia on our 1076 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,560 um like up and in slido 1077 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,200 so will the eu and u.s with all the 1078 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,200 strong regulations be able to compete 1079 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,599 with global powers such as china 1080 00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:51,920 given the fact then this uh disclosure 1081 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:52,800 that uh 1082 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,160 data is the new oil 1083 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:05,839 what i know 1084 00:38:09,599 --> 00:38:10,960 i just want to mention the earlier 1085 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,119 conversation by olivia and hendrick was 1086 00:38:13,119 --> 00:38:14,800 fundamentally important so if i could 1087 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,280 just add one more dimension to that 1088 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:18,880 because this idea that we're always 1089 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:20,320 speeding regulation 1090 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,119 as being uh can it be an enabler for 1091 00:38:23,119 --> 00:38:24,960 innovation or is it really an enemy of 1092 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,400 innovation i think it can be a very 1093 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:27,680 harmful conversation 1094 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,200 so i just want to reinforce the 1095 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:30,880 important message that henrik and 1096 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:31,839 olivier 1097 00:38:31,839 --> 00:38:33,760 were saying of the importance of 1098 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,440 understanding that if we can through 1099 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:36,400 regulation 1100 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,200 create a more robust and harmonized 1101 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:40,640 digital single market 1102 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,960 we have a very different foundation for 1103 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,800 innovation but what we do need 1104 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,800 is an integrated capital markets you 1105 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,040 need to be able to raise the funds to 1106 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,119 grow those innovations and that is 1107 00:38:51,119 --> 00:38:52,320 absolutely a key 1108 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:53,839 and then to pick up on one thing and i 1109 00:38:53,839 --> 00:38:55,440 think it feeds a little bit to the next 1110 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:56,560 question as well 1111 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,560 olivia say the innovators normally 1112 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,079 establish where they come from 1113 00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:02,560 but think about where do these big tech 1114 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,400 executive giants come from 1115 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,480 so if you think about steve jobs is a 1116 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,000 son of a syrian immigrant 1117 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,880 jeff bezos is a second generation cuban 1118 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:11,760 sergey brin 1119 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,920 is from russia elon musk is from south 1120 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,880 africa it is not all homegrown talent in 1121 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,000 the united states 1122 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,640 so europe also needs to be the magnet 1123 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,640 for talent and the destination that 1124 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,280 attracts the best minds and innovators 1125 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,280 and i would use that as a segway to this 1126 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:28,880 great question that we got from the 1127 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:29,680 audience 1128 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,240 is that who wins these races is where 1129 00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:34,400 that innovation where the best minds 1130 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:35,200 want to 1131 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,320 migrate to and want to innovate and in 1132 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:39,280 many ways 1133 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,760 america has been the place that has 1134 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,760 generated the ecosystem 1135 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,320 the universities the capital markets 1136 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,560 that they're being welcoming of migrants 1137 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,960 um that many ways the eu needs to 1138 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:52,000 replicate those 1139 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,400 first of all but then to be able to 1140 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,000 compete against china 1141 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,920 i think there was a wonderful line at 1142 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,079 some point when the eu 1143 00:40:00,079 --> 00:40:01,839 got some pressure the commission from 1144 00:40:01,839 --> 00:40:04,160 france and germany that we would need to 1145 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,200 turn towards industrial policy to better 1146 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:08,560 compete with china 1147 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:10,319 and commissioner festark has said that 1148 00:40:10,319 --> 00:40:12,560 look let the chinese be chinese 1149 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,640 we would be lousy chinese they are much 1150 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:15,760 better at it 1151 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,680 and ultimately that would be the most 1152 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:18,880 dangerous path 1153 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:20,800 for the eu to take is to choose 1154 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,520 protectionism build a fortress europe 1155 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,000 turned this idea of digital sovereignty 1156 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:27,280 that hendrick was talked 1157 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,599 uh talked about to this kind of 1158 00:40:29,599 --> 00:40:31,280 instrumental protectionism 1159 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,839 that will not be a path to victory but 1160 00:40:33,839 --> 00:40:36,160 the eu needs to assert itself 1161 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,640 true to its values because it is really 1162 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:39,599 offering a 1163 00:40:39,599 --> 00:40:42,560 different path than china is absolutely 1164 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:43,319 uh 1165 00:40:43,319 --> 00:40:46,240 disrespectful of the fundamental rights 1166 00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:49,119 of uh individual users and that is the 1167 00:40:49,119 --> 00:40:50,960 price of the chinese model 1168 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:52,960 and the europeans cannot and should not 1169 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,800 and will not replicate that 1170 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,359 and in many ways even americans in this 1171 00:40:57,359 --> 00:40:58,160 race 1172 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,079 are second-guessing now these kind of 1173 00:41:01,079 --> 00:41:03,040 techno-libertarian foundations of 1174 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:04,480 american success 1175 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,800 and our understanding that ultimately 1176 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,040 regulation needs to be part of that 1177 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,200 so in many ways i think the eu is on the 1178 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:12,960 right track with the values 1179 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,599 underlying the european model of the 1180 00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:16,880 digital economy 1181 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,280 if it remains mindful of some of these 1182 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:20,000 other issues 1183 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,839 like the capital markets completing the 1184 00:41:21,839 --> 00:41:23,200 digital single market 1185 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:24,800 i'm sorry it was a lengthy answer but 1186 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:26,560 the question was just very um 1187 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:27,920 important i thought so thank you for 1188 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,160 that thank you thank you for a very 1189 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,319 insightful answer here too oliver you 1190 00:41:32,319 --> 00:41:34,079 want to add something as well 1191 00:41:34,079 --> 00:41:36,560 no can we move to the next one you know 1192 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,400 including the quotation of uh 1193 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,839 margaret vegeta yes so 1194 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,880 all right we also have received another 1195 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:46,720 question from the audience 1196 00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:49,520 by romana who has asked that how the 1197 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,760 digital services act package may affect 1198 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:52,640 the future 1199 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,960 do you think that this could eliminate 1200 00:41:54,960 --> 00:42:02,000 some internet threats as well 1201 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,200 henrik maybe no i'm i mean 1202 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,119 that it goes without saying this is the 1203 00:42:07,119 --> 00:42:09,119 objective the the goal of the 1204 00:42:09,119 --> 00:42:12,880 the dsa is to increase responsibility 1205 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:13,200 for 1206 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:14,800 digital players as to the content that 1207 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,640 they put online uh 1208 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,640 it increased also legal certainty for 1209 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:20,240 digital players to ensure that the 1210 00:42:20,240 --> 00:42:23,359 digital single market works well and i'm 1211 00:42:23,359 --> 00:42:24,160 sure that 1212 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,000 uh there's a number of very important 1213 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,920 guiding principles in the 1214 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,640 in the proposed dsa that will form a 1215 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:31,680 blueprint 1216 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,480 for other jurisdictions other countries 1217 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,000 around the world to follow it that goes 1218 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:37,200 without saying and 1219 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,200 you know i i can just add that you know 1220 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,680 from my perspective working for apple 1221 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:42,880 you know this is something that we're 1222 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:44,480 very familiar with because we have a 1223 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:45,839 curated approach 1224 00:42:45,839 --> 00:42:48,319 towards putting content online we have 1225 00:42:48,319 --> 00:42:50,400 you know actual human beings that 1226 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,720 vet third-party applications before we 1227 00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:54,240 put them online to make sure that they 1228 00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:55,119 are legal 1229 00:42:55,119 --> 00:42:57,680 safe secure and and don't infringe on 1230 00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,680 the privacy rights of our users 1231 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,960 um so i i'm hopeful that it will 1232 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,040 uh i think you know it's certainly you 1233 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:06,640 know nothing is ever perfect in any 1234 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:08,000 proposal that so there's 1235 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:09,359 always room for improvement but 1236 00:43:09,359 --> 00:43:11,599 generally speaking i'm convinced that it 1237 00:43:11,599 --> 00:43:12,000 would make 1238 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,079 a change and by the way if i can pick up 1239 00:43:14,079 --> 00:43:15,760 on the previous question 1240 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:17,280 i also think this is something that is 1241 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:18,880 being looked at in the united states and 1242 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:19,200 i 1243 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:20,960 therefore think that some type of 1244 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,119 transatlantic cooperation 1245 00:43:23,119 --> 00:43:25,599 on these issues is of extreme importance 1246 00:43:25,599 --> 00:43:26,560 because 1247 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,960 the united states and europe do share a 1248 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:30,079 lot of values 1249 00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:32,720 that perhaps other regions of the world 1250 00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:35,040 do not share to the same extent 1251 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,280 and so you know if we want to be 1252 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:38,480 successful 1253 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,240 if we want to be successful promoting 1254 00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:41,599 protecting the prosperity of our 1255 00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:42,960 citizens 1256 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,119 i think the europeans but also the 1257 00:43:45,119 --> 00:43:46,720 americans will be much better off if 1258 00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:47,839 they work together 1259 00:43:47,839 --> 00:43:50,720 uh in in establishing these principles 1260 00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:52,160 and the rules that will flow from those 1261 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:53,359 principles 1262 00:43:53,359 --> 00:43:55,040 absolutely fully agree with you on the 1263 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:56,640 last point regarding uh transcent 1264 00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:57,680 lattice also 1265 00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,400 uh collaboration um as we just have one 1266 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,240 and a half minutes left here um so as 1267 00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:03,839 the very last con 1268 00:44:03,839 --> 00:44:05,839 concluding point here a question to 1269 00:44:05,839 --> 00:44:07,839 everybody and i i would 1270 00:44:07,839 --> 00:44:11,280 ask a very short answer for that um so 1271 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,319 is the europe european approach is it 1272 00:44:14,319 --> 00:44:16,400 visionary or is it killing helpful 1273 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,319 innovation 1274 00:44:18,319 --> 00:44:20,319 let's start from annual and just with 1275 00:44:20,319 --> 00:44:21,680 the one sentence 1276 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,680 as a conclusion i think i was pretty uh 1277 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,000 lengthy in my earlier answer that it is 1278 00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:29,200 both visionary 1279 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,839 and it is not killing innovation but 1280 00:44:31,839 --> 00:44:33,920 there are still components that need to 1281 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:34,880 be put in place 1282 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,760 in order to translate that vision into 1283 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:38,880 tangible for 1284 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,119 success so i would call for more 1285 00:44:41,119 --> 00:44:41,920 ambition 1286 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:43,760 and more integrated capital markets more 1287 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,200 foreign talent and 1288 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,160 uh maybe that's a good one to start 1289 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,560 oliver your last night 1290 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,520 you're very very same as i knew i will 1291 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:54,480 add more 1292 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,560 more cooperation between universities 1293 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:57,599 and business 1294 00:44:57,599 --> 00:45:00,560 i mean it's it's really not the core 1295 00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,560 that is or the vision that is at stake 1296 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,640 it's it's all the ecosystem and it's 1297 00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:06,000 something that you build 1298 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,119 through small steps here and there that 1299 00:45:09,119 --> 00:45:09,760 makes that 1300 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,480 uh i mean innovation takes place in in a 1301 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:13,920 region or it doesn't 1302 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,000 uh companies grow in that region or that 1303 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:16,960 or they do not 1304 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:18,800 it's many many things and it has to do 1305 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,800 with capital it has to do with skills 1306 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:22,240 it has to do with everything that makes 1307 00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:24,160 a successful company uh 1308 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,240 um and the regulation is there as an 1309 00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:27,760 enabler but if you don't have the rest 1310 00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:29,440 it doesn't work 1311 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,640 and closing remarks from hendrick 1312 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:34,640 i don't think it's uh i think it would 1313 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:36,000 be overstating 1314 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,079 uh that it's visionary i think you know 1315 00:45:38,079 --> 00:45:40,160 europe is doing what's legitimately and 1316 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:41,680 should be doing which is to 1317 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:43,119 you know protect and promote the 1318 00:45:43,119 --> 00:45:44,319 interests and the prosperity of its 1319 00:45:44,319 --> 00:45:45,599 citizens 1320 00:45:45,599 --> 00:45:47,119 i don't would call that visionary i 1321 00:45:47,119 --> 00:45:48,079 would also don't think that the 1322 00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:48,960 regulation will 1323 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,680 kill innovation i agree with olivier but 1324 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,920 there are aspects in the proposals that 1325 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:55,200 would reduce 1326 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,359 uh trust in the system that will reduce 1327 00:45:57,359 --> 00:45:58,960 privacy protections that would reduce 1328 00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:00,400 safety and security 1329 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,200 and you need trust to innovate if people 1330 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:03,920 stop 1331 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,119 having trust in ecosystems uh you know 1332 00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:09,200 people will be more reluctant to try new 1333 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,599 new new features to download new apps 1334 00:46:11,599 --> 00:46:12,960 and so i think you know 1335 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,119 it's very important that legislators 1336 00:46:15,119 --> 00:46:16,960 today and i'm crossing my fingers that 1337 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:17,520 they will 1338 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,480 internalize that the the proposals are 1339 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:21,839 not perfect and that there's room for 1340 00:46:21,839 --> 00:46:22,720 improvement to 1341 00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:24,800 to maintain that trust to promote and 1342 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,720 and and encourage further innovation 1343 00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:27,280 yeah 1344 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:28,960 thank you thank you everyone thanks for 1345 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:30,640 the panelists and thanks for uh for 1346 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,400 people that has joined us here in the 1347 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:32,880 room 1348 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,680 and also virtually um so i do hope that 1349 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:37,359 that was interesting panel for you to 1350 00:46:37,359 --> 00:46:39,359 listen to and then there is definitely 1351 00:46:39,359 --> 00:46:42,560 some improvement made by by like making 1352 00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,640 this entire approach more visionary 1353 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:46,960 and attracting more companies to you to 1354 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:48,400 start their business here 1355 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,040 in in europe but now uh for information 1356 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:52,720 as well here so coming up in the next 1357 00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:54,480 five minutes here in the same room 1358 00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,480 we have a session called climate change 1359 00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:57,920 and global security 1360 00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:00,640 a closer relationship than one might 1361 00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:01,280 think 1362 00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,119 and then in another room in maria 1363 00:47:03,119 --> 00:47:05,520 theresa stage there is a session cities 1364 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:06,480 in lock town 1365 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,160 with representatives of the cities of 1366 00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,000 bratislava budapest and 1367 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:11,920 prague so thank you for my side and i 1368 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,720 wish you a very nice day 1369 00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:24,690 thank you 1370 00:47:24,690 --> 00:47:25,440 [Music] 1371 00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,520 you