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all right

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hey folks ryan here again with the

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cactus con crew and i am here with dan

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and thank you very very much for your

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talk

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much thank you so much yeah thanks for

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being on with us today i'm going to go

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ahead and just

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discuss our giveaways real quick and

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then we'll get to it

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so we just gave away

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uh contest 117 we have our winners

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char and g khan and then we also have

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our

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next giveaway which goes to des light so

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those

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giveaways have now been announced so we

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have the cactus con

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eight hardware badges and the cactus con

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9

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t-shirt for the t-shirt you simply i'll

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i'll be in touch by the way or just

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message me if you want uh deslight you

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get to pick the style size and all that

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and we'll just ship it out to you

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basically for the hardware badges we

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actually have the hardware badge

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right here from cactus con eight so this

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is this is a bad boy right here this is

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a big boy first off

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there's the back little double side look

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at that little guy oh goodness

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and uh a heart rate monitor a gyroscope

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all kinds of fun stuff on this bad i

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think there's a temperature thing yeah

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ir thermometer all kinds of fun stuff

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and we're about to initiate some

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additional giveaways we're gonna be

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giving away

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two more badges so i'm gonna initiate

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that right now

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there it is should go out all right so

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the next one

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we're gonna do a second giveaway

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simultaneously and that is for the jack

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soldering kit which is technically for

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another conference i don't really think

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about that but it's a really cool

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soldering kit it's the defcon jack

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little guy so if you don't do a bunch of

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soldering or you want to learn or if you

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do and just want to have some fun

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there it is right there and then a ble

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key which is a bluetooth

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little uh you know what do you want to

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call it uh what if it's development or

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pin testing but a little fun device

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so dan oh man there are some great

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comments

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in the chat during your talk my

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favorites

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were uh discussions of the cat cameos

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yeah

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so jamie winterton who has been a staple

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uh helping us out for many years now was

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on our call for papers board this year

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again so thank you by the way she

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brought up you know like holy holy heck

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there's a cat cameo and then

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talking about cats back and forth and

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notes

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and comments on your costume changes

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yeah those were great

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yeah i wanted to play around a little

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bit with the format of this talk

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uh so i really wanted to lean into the

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idea of this being like a pre-prepared

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video and not

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necessarily like just doing a like slide

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and talking head format

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and i think part of that meant like i

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was gonna record it over the course of a

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few days

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so uh like the wardrobe changes weren't

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even like on purpose as like an

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intentional thing it was just the fact

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that i

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like did this over the course of a few

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days and the cat's like well

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you know what am i gonna do kick the cat

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out just because i'm trying to record no

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way they're adorable i'm not gonna

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kick them out so uh yeah like they're

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they're here they own the place i just

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rent it

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i also note your shirt you're wearing

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right now i like how you tied it

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yeah this is the yeah this is the the

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smash the logo

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uh that like kind of is the the theme

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across all the smash games so you know

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gotta

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represent that yeah i love it we had a

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comment during the talk

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i'm totally fascinated by this story on

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the edge of my seat

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about where it's going and i was like

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this person being a smart ass because i

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think it's

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and they were like oh really i'm like

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it's just really awesome

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yeah that i almost actually just

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got rid of all the other bugs and just

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did a 45-minute talk on that first one

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i feel like there's there's still a lot

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more that i could have said there

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like more like details to talk about

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but uh i did want to eventually move on

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but uh yeah

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that first thing like about you know the

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interpretive dance winds up being

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more literal than you probably thought

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it was going to be like maybe reading

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the talk description thought oh well

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that's just some weird exaggeration

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that people say like no it's like

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actually a pretty good description of

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how that

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like exploitation and like exfiltration

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mechanism works

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i i the visual element to it it reminds

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me of something from the fighting game

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community that you and i are both a part

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of

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um that may be a little kind of left

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field but it's just

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in my brain it kept clicking there are

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visual hacks when you're playing

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fighting games um there's audio and

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visual hacks when

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you're in person playing fighting games

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maybe not right now on the code

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uh area of curving but when you're at a

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tournament or even just you know casuals

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as we call them right and you're playing

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um i'm a street fighter guy myself and i

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gotta paint it on the wall i love street

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fighter

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um yeah you can hear the joystick and

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you can hear like if so

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yeah street fighter at least you know

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zombie you know he's got

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a pile driver where you do circles and

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people often will buffer the circle so

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you can literally hear them

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we call it churn and butter and they're

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kind of they're grinding and you're like

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okay he's gonna pile drive me right now

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right

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but you can also there are some people

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who literally like they play like this

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you watch them at tournaments and

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they're like this watching the tv like

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watching their opponent's hands trying

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to see what they're oh you're in a jab

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okay

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so yeah one of the local players uh

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smash players in phoenix taj is a

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wonderful player

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and was one of the original uh like

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inspirations for smashbot

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would do that he would uh play you two

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and if you uh

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like got into a position where uh he

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could do the combo

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by muscle memory but needed to know

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where you're dying basically he needed

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to know like

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what you're pressing you just look over

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at your like controller

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to see like what you're pressing and

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everyone's like

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no don't do like you know like start

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playing like this you know

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like holding the controller behind your

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head or something like that

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yeah it's a good time yeah a lot of the

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tournaments the japanese style at least

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for the you know those types of fighting

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games

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they've been head to head for years but

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the american style has

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for the whole you know forever has been

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side by side and so it's just you're

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just like

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i see what you're doing right there you

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know it becomes obvious

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it started putting up dividers you know

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so that people can't and then you see

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every once in a while tournament people

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looking over the device

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like partly it's an esports thing too

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you know you want to have like

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the the look and feel of like this per

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like a versus b

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and it looks good on stage it does it

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does

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there was a comment during the talk this

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talk is making me not want to write my

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chess server engine

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and then follow up with haven't done the

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risk modeling for it

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yet but this talk will make sure i

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simulate some attacks yeah

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yeah at least uh like the old school

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board games like chess

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like are pretty well understood and like

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they don't have any like

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hard real-time requirements in the sense

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that like like fighting games do

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where like they're i can't tell you how

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many man hours

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have gone into lowering the latency

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in melee to like to shave off like

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a half a millisecond here and like a

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quarter of a millisecond there

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right to like bring like the latency as

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like absolutely

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down as possible where like that's not

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really particularly critical

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in like chess like you could just use a

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tcp connection uh like i

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even if you go to chess.com like i'm

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pretty sure it's all just web requests

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like i don't think that they use any

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like weird like websocket thing like

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maybe i'm wrong about that i haven't

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looked into it but

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uh i don't i don't believe they do

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so i'm looking through the chat here

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there's a lot of conversation

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uh a number of folks basically saying

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like wow that was in depth

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you know that was super in-depth um have

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you

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have you seen or do you believe anyone's

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actually

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tried to implement what you came up with

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or would when you originally came up

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with it was it already patched out

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before or were you able to basically

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what i'm getting at is you know your

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your display of you can actually have

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recorded video

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as opposed to having the playback for

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the playback file that's complete you

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know obvious

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you have the hex values sure whatever

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have you been able to successfully

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implement that and have

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other people do it i'm wondering if

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other people were able to successfully

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do it and not just you

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uh so this has just so it hasn't been

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public

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so like the the um the read overflow bug

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that first bug

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the it was patched only like for real

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only recently uh because we tried to do

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that patch

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first back in like october or whatever

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it was and that's the one

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where i said it broke everything yeah um

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so yeah i uh so yeah there's that

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the uh the scrubbing tool still doesn't

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exist

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yet uh there's some there's a reason why

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that's hard too that i

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get into this this is one of those

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reasons i could have talked about this

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one bug for like 45 minutes

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so um there doesn't yet exist a good

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way of modifying those slp files like

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there's not a library for it basically

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so in order to do that i'm going to like

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write a library

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that's capable of modifying those files

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which also kind of opens up

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a door of like potential cheating since

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those slp files are like

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used as kind of like proof of things so

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if you could like modify them to say

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arbitrary stuff you're like

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hey look at this match that i played and

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it shows you winning

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like then you presented to the

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tournament organizer and say hey look

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like i played this game here's the

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replay i won and then

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like that gets really complicated so

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like how to implement that in a way that

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probably doesn't like

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open this pandora's box of people

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cheating is gonna be tricky

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uh so i wanna be able to both like stomp

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out though like zero out those

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um that that that heap data like i

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mentioned without

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kind of ruining it for everyone along

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the way

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i think uh billy of uh king kong fame

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right now so through my head where

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he's going like oh just modify the yeah

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they can't use emulators for their proof

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they have to use real machines and

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record them and um

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sure you've seen that that whole oh yeah

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yeah at this point but i'm just thinking

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that like i'll just change a couple bits

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here

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look at my score okay cool so

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we're uh we're basically here on time i

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just want to thank you

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very very much i was so excited

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so excited to see the call for paper you

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know submission and then when i

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saw the video you know being a hardcore

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fgc guy for for

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you know most of my life i live and

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breathe street fighter i got it all you

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know you can't see it

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it's off camera now but i have my crap

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all over so when i was like oh this

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guy's a smasher

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oh oh oh he wrote the damn bot i've seen

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that bot like yeah it's

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really cool to have you on uh so hey

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thank you glad to be here for being here

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thank you bet my pleasure all right

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thanks a lot

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thank you bye-bye