all right
hey folks ryan here again with the
cactus con crew and i am here with dan
and thank you very very much for your
talk
much thank you so much yeah thanks for
being on with us today i'm going to go
ahead and just
discuss our giveaways real quick and
then we'll get to it
so we just gave away
uh contest 117 we have our winners
char and g khan and then we also have
our
next giveaway which goes to des light so
those
giveaways have now been announced so we
have the cactus con
eight hardware badges and the cactus con
9
t-shirt for the t-shirt you simply i'll
i'll be in touch by the way or just
message me if you want uh deslight you
get to pick the style size and all that
and we'll just ship it out to you
basically for the hardware badges we
actually have the hardware badge
right here from cactus con eight so this
is this is a bad boy right here this is
a big boy first off
there's the back little double side look
at that little guy oh goodness
and uh a heart rate monitor a gyroscope
all kinds of fun stuff on this bad i
think there's a temperature thing yeah
ir thermometer all kinds of fun stuff
and we're about to initiate some
additional giveaways we're gonna be
giving away
two more badges so i'm gonna initiate
that right now
there it is should go out all right so
the next one
we're gonna do a second giveaway
simultaneously and that is for the jack
soldering kit which is technically for
another conference i don't really think
about that but it's a really cool
soldering kit it's the defcon jack
little guy so if you don't do a bunch of
soldering or you want to learn or if you
do and just want to have some fun
there it is right there and then a ble
key which is a bluetooth
little uh you know what do you want to
call it uh what if it's development or
pin testing but a little fun device
so dan oh man there are some great
comments
in the chat during your talk my
favorites
were uh discussions of the cat cameos
yeah
so jamie winterton who has been a staple
uh helping us out for many years now was
on our call for papers board this year
again so thank you by the way she
brought up you know like holy holy heck
there's a cat cameo and then
talking about cats back and forth and
notes
and comments on your costume changes
yeah those were great
yeah i wanted to play around a little
bit with the format of this talk
uh so i really wanted to lean into the
idea of this being like a pre-prepared
video and not
necessarily like just doing a like slide
and talking head format
and i think part of that meant like i
was gonna record it over the course of a
few days
so uh like the wardrobe changes weren't
even like on purpose as like an
intentional thing it was just the fact
that i
like did this over the course of a few
days and the cat's like well
you know what am i gonna do kick the cat
out just because i'm trying to record no
way they're adorable i'm not gonna
kick them out so uh yeah like they're
they're here they own the place i just
rent it
i also note your shirt you're wearing
right now i like how you tied it
yeah this is the yeah this is the the
smash the logo
uh that like kind of is the the theme
across all the smash games so you know
gotta
represent that yeah i love it we had a
comment during the talk
i'm totally fascinated by this story on
the edge of my seat
about where it's going and i was like
this person being a smart ass because i
think it's
and they were like oh really i'm like
it's just really awesome
yeah that i almost actually just
got rid of all the other bugs and just
did a 45-minute talk on that first one
i feel like there's there's still a lot
more that i could have said there
like more like details to talk about
but uh i did want to eventually move on
but uh yeah
that first thing like about you know the
interpretive dance winds up being
more literal than you probably thought
it was going to be like maybe reading
the talk description thought oh well
that's just some weird exaggeration
that people say like no it's like
actually a pretty good description of
how that
like exploitation and like exfiltration
mechanism works
i i the visual element to it it reminds
me of something from the fighting game
community that you and i are both a part
of
um that may be a little kind of left
field but it's just
in my brain it kept clicking there are
visual hacks when you're playing
fighting games um there's audio and
visual hacks when
you're in person playing fighting games
maybe not right now on the code
uh area of curving but when you're at a
tournament or even just you know casuals
as we call them right and you're playing
um i'm a street fighter guy myself and i
gotta paint it on the wall i love street
fighter
um yeah you can hear the joystick and
you can hear like if so
yeah street fighter at least you know
zombie you know he's got
a pile driver where you do circles and
people often will buffer the circle so
you can literally hear them
we call it churn and butter and they're
kind of they're grinding and you're like
okay he's gonna pile drive me right now
right
but you can also there are some people
who literally like they play like this
you watch them at tournaments and
they're like this watching the tv like
watching their opponent's hands trying
to see what they're oh you're in a jab
okay
so yeah one of the local players uh
smash players in phoenix taj is a
wonderful player
and was one of the original uh like
inspirations for smashbot
would do that he would uh play you two
and if you uh
like got into a position where uh he
could do the combo
by muscle memory but needed to know
where you're dying basically he needed
to know like
what you're pressing you just look over
at your like controller
to see like what you're pressing and
everyone's like
no don't do like you know like start
playing like this you know
like holding the controller behind your
head or something like that
yeah it's a good time yeah a lot of the
tournaments the japanese style at least
for the you know those types of fighting
games
they've been head to head for years but
the american style has
for the whole you know forever has been
side by side and so it's just you're
just like
i see what you're doing right there you
know it becomes obvious
it started putting up dividers you know
so that people can't and then you see
every once in a while tournament people
looking over the device
like partly it's an esports thing too
you know you want to have like
the the look and feel of like this per
like a versus b
and it looks good on stage it does it
does
there was a comment during the talk this
talk is making me not want to write my
chess server engine
and then follow up with haven't done the
risk modeling for it
yet but this talk will make sure i
simulate some attacks yeah
yeah at least uh like the old school
board games like chess
like are pretty well understood and like
they don't have any like
hard real-time requirements in the sense
that like like fighting games do
where like they're i can't tell you how
many man hours
have gone into lowering the latency
in melee to like to shave off like
a half a millisecond here and like a
quarter of a millisecond there
right to like bring like the latency as
like absolutely
down as possible where like that's not
really particularly critical
in like chess like you could just use a
tcp connection uh like i
even if you go to chess.com like i'm
pretty sure it's all just web requests
like i don't think that they use any
like weird like websocket thing like
maybe i'm wrong about that i haven't
looked into it but
uh i don't i don't believe they do
so i'm looking through the chat here
there's a lot of conversation
uh a number of folks basically saying
like wow that was in depth
you know that was super in-depth um have
you
have you seen or do you believe anyone's
actually
tried to implement what you came up with
or would when you originally came up
with it was it already patched out
before or were you able to basically
what i'm getting at is you know your
your display of you can actually have
recorded video
as opposed to having the playback for
the playback file that's complete you
know obvious
you have the hex values sure whatever
have you been able to successfully
implement that and have
other people do it i'm wondering if
other people were able to successfully
do it and not just you
uh so this has just so it hasn't been
public
so like the the um the read overflow bug
that first bug
the it was patched only like for real
only recently uh because we tried to do
that patch
first back in like october or whatever
it was and that's the one
where i said it broke everything yeah um
so yeah i uh so yeah there's that
the uh the scrubbing tool still doesn't
exist
yet uh there's some there's a reason why
that's hard too that i
get into this this is one of those
reasons i could have talked about this
one bug for like 45 minutes
so um there doesn't yet exist a good
way of modifying those slp files like
there's not a library for it basically
so in order to do that i'm going to like
write a library
that's capable of modifying those files
which also kind of opens up
a door of like potential cheating since
those slp files are like
used as kind of like proof of things so
if you could like modify them to say
arbitrary stuff you're like
hey look at this match that i played and
it shows you winning
like then you presented to the
tournament organizer and say hey look
like i played this game here's the
replay i won and then
like that gets really complicated so
like how to implement that in a way that
probably doesn't like
open this pandora's box of people
cheating is gonna be tricky
uh so i wanna be able to both like stomp
out though like zero out those
um that that that heap data like i
mentioned without
kind of ruining it for everyone along
the way
i think uh billy of uh king kong fame
right now so through my head where
he's going like oh just modify the yeah
they can't use emulators for their proof
they have to use real machines and
record them and um
sure you've seen that that whole oh yeah
yeah at this point but i'm just thinking
that like i'll just change a couple bits
here
look at my score okay cool so
we're uh we're basically here on time i
just want to thank you
very very much i was so excited
so excited to see the call for paper you
know submission and then when i
saw the video you know being a hardcore
fgc guy for for
you know most of my life i live and
breathe street fighter i got it all you
know you can't see it
it's off camera now but i have my crap
all over so when i was like oh this
guy's a smasher
oh oh oh he wrote the damn bot i've seen
that bot like yeah it's
really cool to have you on uh so hey
thank you glad to be here for being here
thank you bet my pleasure all right
thanks a lot
thank you bye-bye