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hi everyone and we're back from break um

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and it's i'm just delighted that uh

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detective sergeant chris spinks is with

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us because he's doing a tremendous

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amount for that next generation that has

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been i think a theme that we've talked

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about in terms of a lot of the

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presentations today and it's certainly i

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think the opportunity and the exposure

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on things like our smaller community uh

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uh our community events

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in infosec is super important so without

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further ado i give you a chris spinks i

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was waiting for the round of applause

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there but uh i've never had one before

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so i shan't start now cheers guys before

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you can sit back

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sorry

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are we still hot yeah i was just going

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to say before we continue it's important

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to point out that chris is not here to

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arrest anybody yeah right well yeah and

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we'll and i'll show up now and let you

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continue yeah we were just talking about

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like bodies all over the place at the

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next vidcon i'm still note taking notes

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right guys thank you so much for having

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me on this is a tremendous um privilege

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for me and i don't do too many public

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talks which is probably why yeah cons

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stay interesting and so i put a couple

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of thoughts across when

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mr fat hobbit gave me the opportunity as

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something i might want to talk about um

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so i came up with a title of our only

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hope in innovation is cyber defence is

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youth diversity and gender engagement

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and so i kind of came up with a bit of a

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blueprint but having said the word

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diversity and gender engagement i'm now

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going to duck before stu chucks a rant

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at me or a theater fist or something

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so who am i uh detective sergeant uh for

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the yorks and humber regional organized

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crime unit i've been in policing for 23

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years

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uh started off at the front line wearing

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the funny bobble hat top out thing

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and then working my way through to

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intelligence which is where i spent a

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few years doing sort of uh

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some pretty sensitive intelligence areas

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and then moved on into

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seven years within cyber units and

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that's been pretty much around the

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incident response disaster recovery

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assistance for small medium companies

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large companies deal with themselves

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and looking at what we can do to help

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them and then looking at what drives the

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investigations taking those nuggets of

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the forensics from the back end of that

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and trying to put it together and

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finding that once again the threat actor

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comes from a jurisdiction that we can't

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touch

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so that was great

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um and then sort of five years the last

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five years of my time have been

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developing tech innovation teams

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take innovation being around

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law enforcement tech which they're still

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in what they're still working on xp so

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that's not difficult to

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innovate there but in truth it's looking

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at the problems

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and looking at

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how we can solve those problems it's

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been really interesting

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so uh pretty much this has been me when

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i was more fit yeah i wish

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pretty much this is me when i've when i

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was sitting around being very bored as a

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police officer but that's pretty much

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what most police officers in policing

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are doing is a traditional based

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policing but when i moved to yorkshire i

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was given the opportunity to start

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developing years in industry for

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computer science computer degree type

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students at the time we had a henry

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henry was

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an intern and they had no idea what to

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do with him they don't mind me saying

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that so i came in and i still had no

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idea but i made the choice to ask him

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that's developed through i'll talk about

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that journey but in the last 12 months

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i've started my own company as well as

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working in the police looking at digital

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transformation because of what i've

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learned

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and that's uh that's been an interesting

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journey in itself

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so why why policing why are we talking

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about cyber security

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uh yeah pretty much everyone knows these

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statistics they're made up they're taken

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from cisco they're taken from ibm's cost

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of data breach etc etc and we just know

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that it's happening every 39 seconds

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what a cyber attack is isn't defined so

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look at the costs so this is for me

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really what we're looking at increases

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by nearly 300 over the covered times

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and that's a huge increase that's what

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uh you you sort of clever guys and uh

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within the support and within the it

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spheres are trying to cope with and

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that's pretty horrendous

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and we still look at

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spam sixty percent malicious domains

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fishing 80 reported security incidents

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it still remains that user being the

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issue i'd say stu i'm saying issue in a

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kind and all-encompassing way

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but i think user is definitely for me

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where we need to be i was ashamed i

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couldn't see the whole of matthew's talk

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last i think it's probably going to send

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around some of the same

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and so it comes down to that why

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well 80 data records compromised every

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second

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and payment fraud for 2024 looking

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around 25 billion

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on fraud

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so this is

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pretty much faceless for fraud but it's

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very very much motivated by

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money

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so

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the problem we've got in the uk is a

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cyber shortage

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really apparently

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18 percent lack necessary tech skills 23

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lakh communication leadership management

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but for me communication here is really

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the point

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and 18

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of job applicants lack communication

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that's an interesting one to ponder

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if we get into 41 percent like an

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incident management investigation

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digital forensics well that's a training

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thing that's something that really that

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can be built in but it comes back to

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communication

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and 36 percent likes to lack skills in

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cyber security research

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now this has been taken from ipsos

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murray and department of culture media

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and sport figures so can't be wrong

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but

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lacks cyber security research skills

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pretty much everyone that i've worked

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with through students in the last four

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years

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were pretty good on cyber security

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research

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so

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i have to question really lack

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or is this a communication issue

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and we know full well we've heard it i'm

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gonna um not cause a drinking fine by

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saying there's a skills gap because

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i disagree

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i disagree there's a skills gap

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up on the screen you can see a number of

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people have reached notoriety good way

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started their own companies

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aged 22 14 12 17.

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and t sphinx my son 10.

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regularly beats the parent security

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cross i can put in

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i wouldn't say he likes skills

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i'd like say he's lacked direction

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or maybe all these people have got all

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the skills we need

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and actually what we're doing is we're

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just not translating them properly

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and then mca on the bottom

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from 2015 figures um average age of

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cyber crime suspect falling to 17.

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well

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cybercrime i

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have my own feelings around the cyber

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crime side i think the prevent needs to

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be built up so we can uh divert and

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bring them into uh blue teaming red

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teaming i mean that's where the skills

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are but again it points to not

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necessarily a skills gap but maybe that

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sort of translation error

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so let's have a look at the problem 50

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in the uk uh of companies have basic

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technical skills

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gaps are 680 000 companies in the uk

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have a basic technical skills gap and

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they define those skills gap

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even sort of been able to store and

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transfer public information private

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identifiable information safely

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detect remove malware setting up

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firewalls i mean these are not big

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skills to have i'm

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pretty sure that a lot of the kids that

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we've seen out there

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could pretty quickly have these skills

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and and help these 680 000 companies but

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they're not being given the chance

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so then just above the very strange

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looking giraffe um 28

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businesses offering internships

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so

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we've got 50 of all businesses

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have basic skills gaps

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and less than 20 and less than and just

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over a quarter of businesses at the

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whole of the uk are actually offering

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any chance to gain experience and let me

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tell you an internship is not expensive

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it definitely shouldn't be free and i've

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seen those questions on linkedin and

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twitter and we should always be paying

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our kids but

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what are they actually going to do

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i've had feedback from others going into

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intern placements to say that their

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first line they're answering phone calls

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okay these are gifted individuals why

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have we gotten answering phone calls i

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know yeah character building i know yeah

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so the answer they understand the

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problem but

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that's not giving them that real leg up

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that real foot up

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i've had others saying they're just

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spending day and day out for 12 months

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looking at pcap files looking at

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anomalies sure

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important understand that but for 12

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months

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we should be working better than this i

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think

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and these kids are our gateway

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into

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us when we're pensioners and i extend i

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understand ian that i've got less years

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than you to get to my pension age but

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it's just because i had a light paper

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round

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but actually why are we asking are we

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asking them for their thoughts are we

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asking the kids and students coming

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through on internships so we asking them

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for how they feel we could do better

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not usually

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so cyber sector lacks skills but fails

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to offer experience

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and then boot ducks diversity chucking

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in there but what are we looking at

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ten percent of all cyber roles in

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neurodivergent

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that's

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along onto the spectrum and autism

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dyslexia dyspraxia it is calculated

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that's

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that's calculated that's where i come in

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two percent of senior roles

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are neurodivergent

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so that's not translating to the top

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three percent

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of senior roles of women

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00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:23,839
ethnic minorities three percent of

286
00:10:23,839 --> 00:10:25,519
senior roles one percent of senior roles

287
00:10:25,519 --> 00:10:28,240
are disabled really isn't representing

288
00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,720
society

289
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,480
i've seen some real opportunities here

290
00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,560
some real potential for unconscious bias

291
00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:35,920
recruitment issues

292
00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,000
maybe this is part of the problem but

293
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,480
why is it important well

294
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,640
it's important because of two things

295
00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,320
many things but two main things that i

296
00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,399
said one

297
00:10:46,399 --> 00:10:47,600
the attack

298
00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,120
is coming from

299
00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:50,399
society

300
00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:53,120
if we don't represent society in our

301
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,680
cyber defense how do we understand what

302
00:10:55,680 --> 00:10:57,760
that attack vector looks like what that

303
00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:59,040
next attack

304
00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:00,800
thought processes

305
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,240
and

306
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,480
how do we understand what our users are

307
00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,079
doing we've heard in the last talk about

308
00:11:06,079 --> 00:11:07,920
the user and understanding what that

309
00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:09,440
user is going through

310
00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,160
but if we don't reflect the user in our

311
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,160
staffing then how do we know what their

312
00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,000
problems are how do we know why they're

313
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,399
circumnavigating the security controls

314
00:11:18,399 --> 00:11:20,800
we don't

315
00:11:20,959 --> 00:11:23,279
so it comes on to me telling you there's

316
00:11:23,279 --> 00:11:25,440
a huge cyber crime problem as usual

317
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,040
that's me doing my policing bit and

318
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,839
being 10 years behind everything else

319
00:11:29,839 --> 00:11:32,560
and the main attack vector is via the

320
00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:34,720
user

321
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,120
nothing new there

322
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:38,640
we know companies can't recruit into

323
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,600
cyber roles they label skills to define

324
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,079
roles but that label i feeling is is

325
00:11:44,079 --> 00:11:45,680
wrong this is where the labeling needs

326
00:11:45,680 --> 00:11:48,560
to be redefined

327
00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:49,279
and

328
00:11:49,279 --> 00:11:51,440
funnily enough they fail to attract

329
00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,040
relevant applicants and don't offer the

330
00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,120
experience to those people in there and

331
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:56,639
of course we come on to the age old one

332
00:11:56,639 --> 00:11:58,320
that we've seen many times that require

333
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:00,320
years of experience 10 years of

334
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,800
experience for kubernetes pretty sure it

335
00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:04,240
hasn't been around for 10 years but i've

336
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:05,600
seen the adverts

337
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,639
asking for these unreasonable amounts

338
00:12:08,639 --> 00:12:11,120
so effectively cyber sector our good

339
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,040
people all the people here do not

340
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,200
reflect the threat

341
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,839
and don't reflect the users

342
00:12:17,839 --> 00:12:20,079
so let's quickly go through recruitment

343
00:12:20,079 --> 00:12:21,839
heard it fantastic uh

344
00:12:21,839 --> 00:12:24,000
yesterday to go through this from dan i

345
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,160
think it was superb summed out really

346
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,200
nicely but someone leaves a new role or

347
00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,279
a new role is created

348
00:12:31,279 --> 00:12:32,560
senior role

349
00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:34,160
don't forget that

350
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:36,639
diversity-wise not reflection of society

351
00:12:36,639 --> 00:12:38,800
at all but the senior role decides to

352
00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,360
advertise

353
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,360
hr gets involved

354
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:44,880
not techy at all don't understand

355
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:46,320
anything and they deal with a strategy

356
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:47,839
they deal with getting that marketing

357
00:12:47,839 --> 00:12:48,880
out there

358
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,279
and they use that existing role profile

359
00:12:51,279 --> 00:12:53,680
because well bob's left so we need to

360
00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:55,440
replace bob

361
00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:56,959
with bob

362
00:12:56,959 --> 00:12:58,959
that's not moving forward

363
00:12:58,959 --> 00:13:01,040
and they send out that exciting advert

364
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,839
looking for their ideal candidate

365
00:13:03,839 --> 00:13:05,279
yeah well

366
00:13:05,279 --> 00:13:06,959
most people don't see it as an exciting

367
00:13:06,959 --> 00:13:09,279
advert and has been said previously you

368
00:13:09,279 --> 00:13:11,519
know they're asking for really

369
00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:12,880
unrealistic

370
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,839
expectations on some really basic areas

371
00:13:15,839 --> 00:13:18,079
and then hr do the paper shift

372
00:13:18,079 --> 00:13:20,480
if it's automated or if it's not that's

373
00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,120
not but hr do that paper shift

374
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:23,920
and

375
00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:25,600
that means

376
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,519
that they've just missed

377
00:13:27,519 --> 00:13:29,680
all the kids that didn't work their

378
00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:32,399
applications right who have the skills

379
00:13:32,399 --> 00:13:34,560
and i've been there and i've seen it

380
00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:36,720
because for our intern placements

381
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,800
we have on the last count on the last

382
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,920
group 128 applications came in for five

383
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,360
rolls

384
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,360
and within those

385
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,199
the applications were awful

386
00:13:47,199 --> 00:13:48,880
they were truly bad

387
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:50,320
because these are kids they're really

388
00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,880
gifted kids but they're kids

389
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:54,399
and on a couple of

390
00:13:54,399 --> 00:13:56,399
applications that came in i saw that

391
00:13:56,399 --> 00:13:58,240
they'd answered one of my questions i

392
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,000
wrote the questions one of my questions

393
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,160
not applicable it's like you know i

394
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:03,600
wrote the question it probably is

395
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,600
applicable

396
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,000
but one of those one-line answers was

397
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,160
top 10 in the uk bug bounty for tesla

398
00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,880
and microsoft

399
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:14,639
this kid's got skills but he would have

400
00:14:14,639 --> 00:14:17,199
been missed had it gone through the hr

401
00:14:17,199 --> 00:14:20,160
process i took him in

402
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:21,920
very short time later he was head hunted

403
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,560
by a fantastic pentest company superb

404
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,920
job done got him into cyber

405
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:29,600
then it comes down to the interview

406
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,279
that's when we start to get into the

407
00:14:31,279 --> 00:14:34,000
reality of meeting people and maybe the

408
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,240
process can rectify itself but it's too

409
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,040
late so end up that we offer another

410
00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,600
middle-aged guy with years of experience

411
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,680
the same experience as the last

412
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,399
middle-aged guy

413
00:14:46,399 --> 00:14:50,800
so i think the problem is translation

414
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,120
younger and older generations just don't

415
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:55,519
get each other i speak to my kids i

416
00:14:55,519 --> 00:14:56,880
speak to my son

417
00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,199
and we have fallouts many times mostly

418
00:14:59,199 --> 00:15:01,600
because of communication

419
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,000
because what he thinks are his skills

420
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:05,839
i don't see as a translation into real

421
00:15:05,839 --> 00:15:07,040
world skills

422
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,839
but in truth they really are

423
00:15:09,839 --> 00:15:11,760
he describes his skills differently and

424
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,000
experienced really differently but

425
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:15,440
actually when you look at that and

426
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,279
really delve into what he's saying as a

427
00:15:17,279 --> 00:15:19,040
10 year old kid

428
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,000
there's real world opportunities

429
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,480
to put application in

430
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,480
and of course with younger generations

431
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,800
now and i speak as an older generation

432
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,120
despite my years

433
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,120
but as it's speaking to the younger

434
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:34,880
generations they're filled with

435
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:36,160
confidence

436
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,639
they are of a generation

437
00:15:38,639 --> 00:15:40,639
and a lot of the speakers we've had here

438
00:15:40,639 --> 00:15:42,160
are the same people

439
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,079
that are used to having information on

440
00:15:44,079 --> 00:15:45,839
their fingertips

441
00:15:45,839 --> 00:15:48,800
we can ask the voice assessment

442
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,720
voice assistant he says turning us off

443
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,639
before i say the word

444
00:15:52,639 --> 00:15:54,880
we can ask google we can ask anything

445
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,120
else for information and it's there at

446
00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,600
our fingertips why wouldn't

447
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,360
our younger generations be hugely

448
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,519
confident in their abilities

449
00:16:03,519 --> 00:16:05,120
and this thing comes down to the fact

450
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:06,079
that

451
00:16:06,079 --> 00:16:07,839
that confidence can sometimes come

452
00:16:07,839 --> 00:16:10,800
across as arrogance

453
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,000
but this is where i say wait

454
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,000
these cultural differences are the same

455
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,160
as the societal differences

456
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,720
and this is again showing that split

457
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,240
where we're not pulling in from that

458
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,399
diverse background and part of the

459
00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:26,720
reason for this

460
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:28,399
you could always have a cat picture this

461
00:16:28,399 --> 00:16:30,720
has to be a cat picture

462
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,759
so the problem is the user we know that

463
00:16:33,759 --> 00:16:35,440
it's called layer rate or whichever you

464
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,440
want to put it and not counting them out

465
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:38,560
because actually they're really

466
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,639
important but the user is the problem

467
00:16:40,639 --> 00:16:43,360
the user needs training and educating

468
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:44,800
and the tech moves too fast for the

469
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:46,320
training to evolve

470
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,040
the user finds the tech training boring

471
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:50,560
and irrelevant

472
00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:52,800
and the user is under increasing work

473
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,120
pressure so cats corners misses threat

474
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:56,399
identifiers

475
00:16:56,399 --> 00:16:58,000
doesn't use mfa

476
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,160
uses easy passwords

477
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:01,600
prints out those documents sticks the

478
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,240
usb in boom company's just been taken

479
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:05,599
down

480
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:07,760
and of course now covered to come along

481
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:09,039
and the user

482
00:17:09,039 --> 00:17:10,720
has just been moved away from the office

483
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:12,400
environment and

484
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:14,559
yep put into an uncontrolled environment

485
00:17:14,559 --> 00:17:16,559
where they have their own iot their own

486
00:17:16,559 --> 00:17:19,520
cameras their own wi-fi their own kids

487
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,359
using their own devices and using their

488
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,760
work devices to play games on and yep

489
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,319
updating and uploading those mods which

490
00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:27,919
are infected

491
00:17:27,919 --> 00:17:30,640
onto work devices and that's putting a

492
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,039
lot of strain on the gifted people here

493
00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:34,480
that are working in input second

494
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,000
security

495
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,320
but it is the user that keeps the

496
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,120
business going

497
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,520
so my conclusion

498
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,840
is that to defend ourselves we need to

499
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,000
recruit better

500
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,160
and improving improvement will

501
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,640
absolutely help with bringing those new

502
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,360
ideas in from youth gender diversity

503
00:17:56,360 --> 00:17:58,640
neurodiversity into the companies which

504
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,520
will help us defend better

505
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:02,960
and to change

506
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,360
we need the seniors those one percent

507
00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:07,919
two percent three percent to trust and

508
00:18:07,919 --> 00:18:10,000
listen to the juniors

509
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,080
because they know their chisel okay

510
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,400
there we are but

511
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,480
i know none of that's new and i can't

512
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,880
stand i'll sit in a beer con and put

513
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,039
across stuff that's not new

514
00:18:21,039 --> 00:18:24,879
so before you rip me apart

515
00:18:25,679 --> 00:18:26,840
there's a bigger

516
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,400
problem the user

517
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,880
the users out there the user

518
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,760
is always going to look to try and get

519
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,160
around your security

520
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,480
and yet we can do some phishing training

521
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,080
and yet we can do some awareness

522
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:43,840
training

523
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:45,760
but they don't think it's relevant

524
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,280
they don't think it's relevant because

525
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:48,960
just the same as when they're on

526
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,720
facebook or meta or whatever it's going

527
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:51,840
to be called

528
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:53,760
and instagram and snapchat and

529
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:55,520
everything else they're involved they're

530
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:56,640
as they're

531
00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:57,679
involved in their phone they're

532
00:18:57,679 --> 00:19:00,240
completely absorbed in their device

533
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,240
so they don't see the threat they don't

534
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,520
live the threat like we do

535
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,480
this is no great surprise to anyone we

536
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,039
know that the security layer builds on

537
00:19:11,039 --> 00:19:12,880
more security but that takes away from

538
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,200
functionality so we need more functional

539
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,280
side of our product so we move it less

540
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,440
from security and more functional

541
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,200
but then it's yes usable

542
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,280
and it's that balance this is the

543
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,600
crucial point for me and having that

544
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,000
balance of where the user sits in that

545
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,679
triangle i think is key

546
00:19:32,559 --> 00:19:35,679
so who could we possibly help that would

547
00:19:35,679 --> 00:19:38,799
help those users at home and help us in

548
00:19:38,799 --> 00:19:41,440
that balance

549
00:19:42,559 --> 00:19:44,559
not joking

550
00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:46,720
kids are me

551
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,200
kids from all over society

552
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:50,559
can help

553
00:19:50,559 --> 00:19:53,679
and here's why they get tech

554
00:19:53,679 --> 00:19:55,679
and they learn fast

555
00:19:55,679 --> 00:19:57,280
they get tech because they live here

556
00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,919
that's everything they do

557
00:19:59,919 --> 00:20:02,880
we need a program that builds across the

558
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,520
country to teach our kids

559
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:06,960
to defend

560
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,159
through the basics remembering back 680

561
00:20:10,159 --> 00:20:12,640
000 companies just in the uk alone don't

562
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,799
have basic security

563
00:20:14,799 --> 00:20:15,520
so

564
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,480
let's get our kids to learn the basics

565
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,840
mfa password security not putting that

566
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,480
usb in

567
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,440
and we build peer teams of kids

568
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,000
now i'm saying kids i'm talking our

569
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,159
youth i'm talking across society

570
00:20:32,159 --> 00:20:34,480
bringing in people from anywhere from

571
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,520
phd students right down through

572
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,200
cyber first and chucking it out there

573
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,280
anyone that comes in onto the scheme and

574
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,159
we build peer teams through this trusted

575
00:20:44,159 --> 00:20:46,960
beer farmers network but people

576
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:48,400
ultimately who are trying to do some

577
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:49,360
good

578
00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:51,919
and we build these peer teams out of the

579
00:20:51,919 --> 00:20:54,799
kids and we put in those kids that would

580
00:20:54,799 --> 00:20:56,080
have probably been on the wrong side of

581
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,640
sub compute misusage

582
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:00,960
and we send those peer teams out to

583
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,760
support the user through clinics and

584
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:05,200
surgeries

585
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,280
put them into our elderly places put

586
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:08,960
them into our care homes put them into

587
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:10,640
companies put them into universities put

588
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,000
them into churches

589
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,039
anywhere else and i think this may just

590
00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:18,080
give us a real opportunity to provide

591
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,240
some meaningful support

592
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,240
to our communities

593
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:23,760
think of all those schools all as

594
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:25,840
parents that if their kids knew what

595
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:27,919
they were doing and they were trusted

596
00:21:27,919 --> 00:21:30,080
because they're part of this security

597
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:31,840
peer team network

598
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:33,440
they could help their parents

599
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:34,960
their parents are the directors their

600
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,559
parents are the owners of the companies

601
00:21:38,559 --> 00:21:40,080
and of course the benefit from that was

602
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:41,520
the kids they gained knowledge they

603
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,039
gained experience they gained experience

604
00:21:43,039 --> 00:21:45,679
of talking audit they get experience of

605
00:21:45,679 --> 00:21:47,679
talking assurance and all these lovely

606
00:21:47,679 --> 00:21:49,520
bits that we enjoy spending our time

607
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,360
writing documents about and so they get

608
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:53,440
jobs

609
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,440
and the other benefit is the users are

610
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,240
then provided with a security letter

611
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,360
it's like a layer eight pairing security

612
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:03,678
layer

613
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,080
so what's appear to me

614
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,280
kids with all sorts of gifts all sorts

615
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:10,640
of experience

616
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,080
who can drop in they can get some

617
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,000
experience in red teams blue teams

618
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,400
yellow teams pink teams purple teams

619
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,080
whatever team you want to put them in

620
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:19,919
just give them short term experience

621
00:22:19,919 --> 00:22:21,520
don't get them sitting watching the ecap

622
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,000
files or giving first tier response

623
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:25,280
let's get them across and get them

624
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:26,799
across the entire sector to get

625
00:22:26,799 --> 00:22:29,919
meaningful experience

626
00:22:29,919 --> 00:22:32,320
and we pull in kids that are completely

627
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,320
disenfranchised from schooling we pull

628
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,640
in kids that just are not interested in

629
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,280
mainstream schooling but let's get hold

630
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:40,799
of them let's put them in the peer teams

631
00:22:40,799 --> 00:22:42,720
and let's drive them forward so that we

632
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,400
actually give them a future

633
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:47,919
and that can draw from anywhere in

634
00:22:47,919 --> 00:22:50,559
society

635
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,520
that's everything

636
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,840
to give the user

637
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,480
some support

638
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,720
now i'm afraid i've finished a tiny bit

639
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,320
earlier than i'd hoped that's because i

640
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,320
got excited and ian knows what i'm like

641
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:05,919
so i just want to finish with a couple

642
00:23:05,919 --> 00:23:07,600
of thank yous and that is very much

643
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,440
thank you to the beer farmers for this

644
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,159
absolutely awesome conference and to uh

645
00:23:12,159 --> 00:23:14,720
for letting me present here because this

646
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,240
was something very different for

647
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,240
policing to be part of

648
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,640
and uh i also just want to quickly say

649
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,159
thank you to all the interns and

650
00:23:22,159 --> 00:23:23,840
students that i've worked with in the

651
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,400
last four years for showing me what true

652
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:27,679
innovation is

653
00:23:27,679 --> 00:23:28,960
and just

654
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,919
reminding me to think differently

655
00:23:31,919 --> 00:23:34,240
so that's it from me thank you so much

656
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,000
for putting up with my waffle and i'll

657
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,280
let you get back to the real speakers

658
00:23:39,679 --> 00:23:42,720
i think thank you hugely chris for

659
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,559
spinning sort of the

660
00:23:44,559 --> 00:23:47,840
the viewpoint of everyone uh in that was

661
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,440
in our audience and attending the talks

662
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,520
today and anyone that will see that talk

663
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,320
in the future um i i kind of have a

664
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,559
question about like

665
00:23:56,559 --> 00:23:58,559
it it's clear that you're working with

666
00:23:58,559 --> 00:24:00,640
um you know the neurodiverse those

667
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,120
different communities i think

668
00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:05,679
what's interesting is our business is

669
00:24:05,679 --> 00:24:07,520
having those conversations with you as

670
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,520
well are you getting into those

671
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,039
companies and saying you know i've got

672
00:24:13,039 --> 00:24:15,840
potentially um something that you should

673
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,760
pay attention to or something you should

674
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,919
embrace absolutely we are starting to

675
00:24:19,919 --> 00:24:21,440
see that happen

676
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,360
and it's absolutely truly wonderful

677
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:25,120
because i do believe that the only way

678
00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:27,039
that we can really start to make a

679
00:24:27,039 --> 00:24:29,279
difference for both the kids that are

680
00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:31,679
coming through our pipeline and for the

681
00:24:31,679 --> 00:24:33,120
companies that are reaching out is to

682
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:35,440
work together we have to work smarter

683
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,520
because this is a fast revolving problem

684
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,000
that a sup than a siloed company can

685
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,279
evolve to

686
00:24:41,279 --> 00:24:43,440
and as i've said already we've had

687
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,200
kids taken into

688
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,120
pen test companies we've had kids go

689
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:49,200
through to some fantastic companies

690
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,000
locally which is giving real opportunity

691
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,520
for those kids

692
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:54,960
but the great the main thing that

693
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,080
happens for me is that people don't just

694
00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:59,760
see their application

695
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,760
because we're able to put these kids

696
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,679
into this into the companies for short

697
00:25:03,679 --> 00:25:05,840
periods of time and that work with them

698
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,840
they realize that actually the

699
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,000
neurodivergence or the the cultural

700
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,679
difference or the gender difference or

701
00:25:11,679 --> 00:25:12,799
anything else

702
00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:15,279
really doesn't matter these kids and

703
00:25:15,279 --> 00:25:17,600
these these young people are just gifted

704
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,919
individuals and they have wonderful

705
00:25:19,919 --> 00:25:22,159
viewpoints that can really enrich any

706
00:25:22,159 --> 00:25:23,679
company they go into

707
00:25:23,679 --> 00:25:25,840
but for me this is why i think the

708
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,760
question doesn't come from what we can

709
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:28,400
do

710
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,480
as policing i've just done a proof of

711
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,960
concept that's all we've done here this

712
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,120
is not something particularly new

713
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:37,279
but this needs to really scale up across

714
00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:39,600
the communities and start see where we

715
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,279
can really enhance digital

716
00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:43,039
transformation across those companies

717
00:25:43,039 --> 00:25:45,039
that would never even see the

718
00:25:45,039 --> 00:25:48,559
opportunity for taking on an intern

719
00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:50,960
yeah you said that you you i've only

720
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,799
done a proof of concept i i think you

721
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:54,320
can actually shorten that too at least

722
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,799
you've done something like i keep

723
00:25:56,799 --> 00:25:59,440
hearing about problems in the industry

724
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,159
but i don't actually see the same people

725
00:26:02,159 --> 00:26:04,320
complaining there's problems trying to

726
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,159
make solutions yeah or at least even

727
00:26:06,159 --> 00:26:08,960
just go here's my idea i know it's crap

728
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:10,960
someone take it open source it do what

729
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,799
you want with it you build on it build

730
00:26:12,799 --> 00:26:14,720
something and continue on

731
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,720
it's just uh here's a problem write them

732
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,799
off now bye okay

733
00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:20,720
let's actually try and fix it so it's

734
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,240
awesome there's a lot of that around

735
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,720
yeah and it's obviously if you're not

736
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:25,840
part of the solution you're part of the

737
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,400
problem right yeah and it's a i think

738
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,159
it's a relevant thing to say the

739
00:26:30,159 --> 00:26:32,000
feedback has been great uh you've

740
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,400
inspired somebody that's actually said

741
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,559
you've inspired them so that's that's a

742
00:26:36,559 --> 00:26:37,919
that's a good outcome right i think he

743
00:26:37,919 --> 00:26:39,520
was referring to the last speaker he was

744
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:40,880
just delayed on his text that's what it

745
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,240
was yeah

746
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,559
did he have an echo as well

747
00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:46,480
but definitely uh definitely aimed at

748
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,720
yourself chris yeah absolutely brilliant

749
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:49,919
and

750
00:26:49,919 --> 00:26:52,720
everybody can do more but it's great

751
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:53,600
seeing

752
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:54,960
it in action

753
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,799
and and it being outcome driven and

754
00:26:56,799 --> 00:26:58,000
that's what everything really should be

755
00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,520
about when we're talking about improving

756
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:00,880
life chances

757
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,720
for individuals whoever they are we've

758
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,240
seen that i was just going to say we've

759
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:05,679
seen that

760
00:27:05,679 --> 00:27:07,440
for example one kid that came through

761
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,440
looked at one of the processes being

762
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,120
used by policing

763
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:13,600
to move images across get a hash for

764
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,000
that image move it across onto a file

765
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,520
create a couple of documents from it and

766
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,840
stick it out that was taking each copper

767
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,240
around an hour and a half to do

768
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,480
he automated it it took him a bit of

769
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,320
automation to pull it from the sources

770
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:27,919
and get it all hashed properly but he

771
00:27:27,919 --> 00:27:29,360
automated it

772
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:31,840
the net saving for uk law enforcement

773
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,159
was estimated to be around six hundred

774
00:27:34,159 --> 00:27:36,159
thousand pounds

775
00:27:36,159 --> 00:27:38,480
for about four months of one young

776
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,159
person's work

777
00:27:40,159 --> 00:27:42,480
but this process is now this process is

778
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,960
not unique to policing all the companies

779
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,080
out there that are manipulating

780
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,000
spreadsheets or doing payroll or doing

781
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,200
all these things

782
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,600
these kids can help them

783
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,600
yeah i i am

784
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,679
just as a camera final point for me

785
00:27:55,679 --> 00:27:58,640
i attended a talk um at b-sides

786
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,000
manchester in 2017 and one of the the

787
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,320
speakers was talking about and i can

788
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,320
only cite the number that she used in

789
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,320
her talk so that's the other basis for

790
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,320
this statistic that i've got

791
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,320
but she said that

792
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,360
it was estimated that 42

793
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:17,279
of the people convicted of cyber crime

794
00:28:17,279 --> 00:28:18,399
in the uk

795
00:28:18,399 --> 00:28:20,720
were neurodiverse

796
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,120
and which is a high number relative to

797
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:24,720
the per capita

798
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:25,679
um

799
00:28:25,679 --> 00:28:27,919
so rather than just kind of look at that

800
00:28:27,919 --> 00:28:31,279
number and bemoan it has been a tragedy

801
00:28:31,279 --> 00:28:34,880
the ncsc and law enforcement uk the nca

802
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,120
and all those people are actually trying

803
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:38,000
to

804
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,720
go into those environments and catch

805
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,039
these kids at a young age

806
00:28:43,039 --> 00:28:45,760
and and put them on the right path

807
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,120
and get them into communities are

808
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:48,960
probably very similar people but doing

809
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:50,240
the right thing

810
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,000
before they get to that tipping point of

811
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,039
being

812
00:28:53,039 --> 00:28:54,799
alone in their bedroom doing the wrong

813
00:28:54,799 --> 00:28:55,600
thing

814
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,039
and i think that's fascinating i think

815
00:28:57,039 --> 00:28:58,480
not a lot of people really understand

816
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,399
that that stuff goes on

817
00:29:00,399 --> 00:29:02,960
um and you've highlighted an example of

818
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,720
it does go on and it's you know it's

819
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,480
fantastic it happens regularly and it's

820
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,480
the partnerships with companies out

821
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,120
there that provide like for example

822
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,600
gamified learning platforms and uh

823
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,039
hacking platforms and things like that

824
00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:16,640
that work with us that allow us to then

825
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,039
put that diversion tactic in but it

826
00:29:19,039 --> 00:29:21,840
needs to be better

827
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:22,640
yeah

828
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,399
there are other programs overseas i mean

829
00:29:24,399 --> 00:29:25,919
i want to actually give them a shout out

830
00:29:25,919 --> 00:29:26,880
because they're basically in the

831
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,559
netherlands they're doing they're doing

832
00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:31,440
similar-ish stuff it's called hack right

833
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,720
they're fantastic and just the idea of

834
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,720
trying to get

835
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,120
kids who are bored to do the right thing

836
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:40,960
and actually help help policing help

837
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:42,080
businesses

838
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,559
help you keep people safe yeah that's

839
00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:46,960
that's awesome

840
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:48,960
there it is

841
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,399
all right well we're gonna say goodbye

842
00:29:50,399 --> 00:29:52,000
to chris goodbye chris thanks for having

843
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,320
me guys